Question: You recommend 0W oils - is the above list "tiered" with respect to 0W oils (if offered) or based off 5W-30 results?

Reason I ask - 0W oils are made from a thinner base stock and have more viscosity spread that is made up by other additives. Therefore they tend to shear more easily when at full temperature, and with some miles on them, will provide slightly lesser protection than a comparable 5W-30 or 10W-30-weight.

Sure, with a 0W, there's the added benefit at cold start-up (which a good oiling system with a drainback valve will prevent anyway - I have never heard my Cruze oil-starved at a cold start), but these oils tend to [generally] provide lesser TBN numbers than the same company's 5W-30 and also tend to lose their hot viscosity number much more quickly [in terms of mileage].

For instance, not to pick on, but to compare with oils that I know well personally, let's take a 10W-30 M1 oil and compare it to a 5W-30. The 5W-30 shears down more easily than the 10W-30 at lower mileage to close to a 20-weight hot oil. Some looking for extended OCI's go to their 0W-40 (5W-40 is very hard to find)...this also shears down, but it becomes close to a 30-weight hot pretty soon.

With a lower TBN number and higher viscosity ratio spread, I would recommend changing whatever oil that you use much sooner than an oil with a higher TBN number. When the TBN runs low, the oil becomes acidic and begins to eat away at metals inside the motor. And...well, you can figure out the lowered hot viscosity part.

 

Great stuff Andrei.

Do the above apply to both gasoline and Diesel engines?


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Xtreme, I think I've read all of your oil posts and I haven't seen anything about TBN retention. UOA tests from bitog confirm that for some reason, AMSOIL has one of the lowest TBN retention out there. Regular Mobil 1 UOA with starting 8.4 TBN tests nearly the same, sometimes better than an AMSOIL SS with starting 12.6 TBN of the same weight and mileage in the same vehicle. Granted one can never completely standardize all driving conditions, but it's been noticed more than a few times by multiple UOAs. I would agree with most everything else. By the way, it's good to see you again. Haven't seen you on RGS in years. I think there's a lot of clutter here, too. The most important items when it comes to motor oil is TBN, oil additive package, cost, and volatility/viscosity. I would like to add emphasis on oil filters. Since you are preaching exclusively for extended oil change intervals, you must inform the good people about using a quality filter with a high particulate first time pass number, and if at all possible a large capacity. After all, no matter how good your oil is, there will always be carbon/byproducts of combustion trapped in the oil. Lastly, I would like to make a small point for the other 92% of oils out there. Even a cheap dino oil, but with a respectable TBN and balanced additive pac paired to a decent filter and changed and tested regularly (I tested every third oil change) not only can, but will ALWAYS provide better protection and lubrication than an expensive exotic oil changed after either it has collected excessive particulate matter, or ran to a TBN of 1.0 or lower.

 

As you noted, the results differ greatly based on driving conditions and not all additives are created equal. As long as the TBN is over 1.0 at the time of the drain, you're fine. We have also noted significant variation between then same oils used in the same cars with two different drivers. This is one reason companies often spec a normal interval and a severe service interval. Amsoil SS for example is 25k mikes normal and 15k mikes severe. Big difference. I have not seen evidence to suggest that the reduction in the tested TBN number is a linear one. They are also entirely different oils; one being a group 3 petroleum base and the other being a group 4/5 synthetic base. I would expect them to react differently.

This thread is by no means complete. Filtration is another topic I had listed to talk about when I would get around to explaining extended drain intervals compared to the oil life monitor, not to conventional oils. I will be changing my filter least once before I actually drain the oil. I simply don't have the time to create a finalized production of this thread yet but believe the information is valuable.

A cheap dino oil is not an option for our cars. While the oil doesn't need to be Dexos1 certified, it does have to meet or exceed the Dexos1 certification. It's not just about protection, which it is far inferior to synthetics, but also what it does to the internals of your engine. The issues of boil-off and time-based oxidization are serious concerns, as is the cost of the low drain intervals necessary to use Dino oil. There's just no benefit to it.

Obviously, you don't want to exceed the usable life of any oil. That is a given. That said, the reason I personally use Amsoil is not just because I can extend those drain intervals, but because those drain intervals are guaranteed by Amsoil and protected by a warranty against any lubrication-related engine failure. The whole of the informative bits of this article are designed to shed light on the differences between synthetics and conventional oils, not suggest that everyone blindly exceed the oil life monitors in their cars.

RGS? Doesn't ring a bell. Are you referring to clutter in this thread, or in the forum overall?

Sent from mobile.

 

Following up with the TBN retention, I've done some specific research on this topic to determine just why I was never concerned with it. The reason is because not only is it not a linear reduction, but the drop decreases exponentially. A quick google search brought the following quote from Mobil 1:

As for TBN retention, it is only a single parameter that provides an indication of the used oil condition. A reduction in TBN is an indication that the overbased detergent is doing its job by neutralizing acids that form as a result of combustion. TBN should be used in combination with other used oil parameters such as oxidation, nitration, TAN (Total Acid Number), ICP metals, D4684 MRV viscosity, and D445 kinematic viscosity to determine the overall condition of the used oil.

Finally, in our experience in severe-service Las Vegas field testing, Mobil 1 engine oil TBN levels typically do not drop below 2 for vehicles with 15,000 mile oil drain intervals. Furthermore, it is our experience that those oils tend not to drop any lower when we continue to 20,000 mile oil drains.

At this point, we are concerned primarily with the TBN at the time of our desired oil drain interval, not any sooner. If I go from 12.6 to 5.0 in the first 5,000 miles, but drop from 5.0 to 3,0 in the next 5,000 miles, and from 3.0 to 2.5 in the next 5,000 miles after that, I am not the least bit concerned.

When comparing oils, one thing you need to keep in mind is (as I discovered in the same googled thread), the detergent formulation may be entirely different from one oil to the next, which will affect the TBN "retention." It would appear that Mg-based detergents in the past formed hard ash deposits in the combustion chambers. I also found this little gem.

Diesel oils with primarily Mg based detergent systems show apprarently slower rates of TBN depletion in service, compared to old school (CI-4 and previous), Ca based detergent oils. However the magnesium based oils also show correspondingly higher TAN's ("Total Acid Numbers"), for a given number of miles. The speculation is that the Mg based oils don't do a good job neutralizing some of the weaker acids formed by combustion.

It appears based on the VOAs I've looked at that Amsoil SS does not use an Mg based detergent, so while Mobil 1 (which does use an Mg based detergent) may show slower rates of TBN depletion, it isn't as effective of an acidity neutralizer. One thing to keep in mind is that Mobil 1 sold out to a Group 3 hydrocracked base stock in addition to an Mg based detergent. Amsoil SS is still a true PAO/Ester synthetic with what appears to be a Ca based detergent. The shift to an Mg based detergent was, as with the shift to Group 3 base stocks, likely done for cost purposes.

 

Awesome Awesome read.. I love reading threads like this by Xtreme!!

 

Just switched to Pennzoil Ultra 5W30 for my ECO. Have not driven the car yet, but on start up engine definitely sounds quieter. I will use the case of Royal Purple I still have in my LS1 GTO.

 

I do want to caution people about the use of oil from Walmart. I have seen claims made that the oil formulation is actually different. Walmart does sell tires under the same name as other places, but at cheaper prices, and those tires are of inferior quality. They do this with other products, and I suspect they may do this with engine oil. The label is specifically made for walmart.

The reason I suspect this is due to the price difference per quart when buying individual quarts and when buying the 5-gallon jugs. The individual quarts are ~9 per quart and the 5-quart jug is $27. That's a difference of ~40% comparing $45 for 5 individual quarts or $27 for a 5-quart jug. I have a hard time chalking that up to just "buying power." I won't say anything for sure until I get some oil testing analysis done on both oils, but if you happen to buy an oil like Pennzoil Ultra at Walmart and it doesn't perform to spec, you were warned.

 

I have been saying that for years. Never no real evidence to back it up.... I know the TV you buy at best buy can be bought at Walmart for cheaper. .... and so are the specs... same Samsung Model two different type of stores and the specs are different. Not sure about the apple products. . But it would not surprise me. If you find this to be true, man oh man!! That will open up a whole new can of worms. That would also make me no longer be a loyal customer to companies like Pennzoil, Mobile, Quebec state etc. That would be a poor excuse to move products. Same name on the bottle with a different formula

 

Erm.

I doubt it's any different, but if it's spread as a rumor over the internet, it'll catch like wildfire.

Anyway, here you go with people thinking the same thing.

Mobil 1 Syn in Walmart? [Archive] - Drive Accord Honda Forums

Mobil 1 | Quality at Walmart

http://coloradok5.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-245283.html

 

Erm.

I doubt it's any different, but if it's spread as a rumor over the internet, it'll catch like wildfire.

Anyway, here you go with people thinking the same thing.

Mobil 1 Syn in Walmart? [Archive] - Drive Accord Honda Forums

Mobil 1 | Quality at Walmart

Lesser quality Walmart products (oil) [Archive] - CK5 Forums

As I said before, the numbers just don't add up. If you buy the 1-quart bottles, it will cost you $44.60 to buy 5 quarts. If you buy the 5-quart jug, with Walmart's label clearly on the jug, it will cost you $27. That's a 40% difference in price. That cannot be just "buying power." Either Pennzoil is losing money on Pennzoil Ultra, or it is not the same product, and you cannot buy those oils anywhere else because they are very clearly packaged specifically for Walmart.

 

I've just ordered six pre-paid Blackstone tests with TBN.

When I get them I'll test some Mobil 1 that I bought at Wal-Mart, along with the diesel factory-fill and the Total INEO MC3 Dexos2 I will be switching to.

I'll let y'all know what Blackstone has to say when I get the results.


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I've just ordered six pre-paid Blackstone tests with TBN.

When I get them I'll test some Mobil 1 that I bought at Wal-Mart, along with the diesel factory-fill and the Total INEO MC3 Dexos2 I will be switching to.

I'll let y'all know what Blackstone has to say when I get the results.


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I'm not entirely sure what we'll see from Mobil 1. The big one I'm concerned with is Pennzoil Ultra, since it's supposed to be a PAO-based oil, not a group 3 hydrocracked. I am looking forward to your results, however.

 

Some recently discovered information has resulted in my lowering Pennzoil Platinum to Tier 2 and raising Redline 0W-30 to Tier 1. Royal Purple HPS would be a Tier 1 if I could find some data on it, but their refusal to publish specifications makes it impossible for me to recommend them at Tier 1. So, Tier 2 they go.

 

This is good stuff Andrei. Please continue to keep your listings up to date.


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This is good stuff Andrei. Please continue to keep your listings up to date.


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I will as I find more information. I'm looking forward to seeing the results from PQI America for 2014.

I'm also looking forward to an update from Amsoil in Q1 of 2014 for the Cruze Diesel. They haven't yet had a chance to look at one to see what oils would be suitable. Here's what I got in an e-mail from them:

At this time I have no lubricant recommendations for a Chevrolet Cruze Diesel fueled engine. Is this a 2014 model? We will get this information sometime in the first quarter of 2014.

I suspect that they may add a Dexos2 certification compatibility for either AEL...

AMSOIL European Car Formula 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil

...or HDD...

AMSOIL Series 3000 SAE 5W-30 Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel Oil

We'll see what comes of this. I'll keep you guys informed of any news I get on that front.

 

According to what all I've been reading in all of the posts on the different oils. If I am using a tier 2 oil, and change my oil between 3-5k, should not be an issue right? Only need a tier 1 oil if running extended oil change intervals? I've had really good luck with QS ultimate durability and also the Super Tech Walmart branded 5-30 synthetic. I just always change them before 5k, mostly around 3-4k. My wife drives this car and it is totally stock and is not run hard at all. I've heard that the Super Tech synthetics are made by Warren oil and that the Super Tech conventional is made by Warren and or Exxon/Mobil. I always used Pennzoil conventional oil in all my trucks and cars for over 20 years and never had any issues. I always changed oil and filter at the 3k mark with conventional oils. I have since changed over to the Super Tech conventionals for 2 of my other non turbo autos and have not had the first problem and looking at the specs of these oils, they are just as good as the previous Pennzoil conventional oils that I had used in the past. I totally agree that Amsoil is probably the best oil out there, but for as often as I like to change my oil, (and I know it is probably a waste, but I'm old school with the way I like to change my oil, just can't leave it in that long), do you think it is an issue for me. I have ran my cars/trucks over the years with this same type oil/change interval for several 100 of thousands of miles without any engine issues whatsoever. I had one truck that I put over 400k on that only had a set of lifters and timing chain/gear put in and that was the only trouble I had out of the engine, and that was done at around the 100k mark. What say you Xtreme? Do you think the Super Tech Synthetic is a decent enough tier 2 oil to run in my Cruze on shorter oil change intervals, and do you think their conventional brand oil is as good as Pennzoil conventional as long as you are changing it every 3k? I know you like Amsoil, (I do too), but I would like a non-biased answer knowing that it will be changed very frequently. Thank you for you in depth analysis on oils, enjoy reading your posts on these matters.

 

If you are running a stock tune with a Tier 1, 2, or 3 oil, then there is no reason why you wouldn't change it according to the oil life monitor. If you are using the GM oil, change it every 5,000 miles. The quality of the oil does a lot more than extend the oil drain intervals, but if that's what you're concerned with, then just stick with that recommendation.

You'll have good luck with anything under the sun in a normal engine if you change it at under 5k miles. However, at that point you're probably just wasting oil. SuperTech synthetic is nothing special. It is higher than the Tier 3 oils I recommended in NOACK volatility, and the TBN is right at the border at 8.0. There are better options out there.

The concept that people have used such and such oil at such and such interval is invalid and irrelevant, for a few reasons. First, most people don't take apart their engines to see what those oils do over time. Conventional oils do leave a lot of sludge behind due to how easily they boil off and oxidize. Second, newer engines have far tighter tolerances and far more stringent oil requirements.

AMSOIL isn't all that expensive to be honest with you. Their OE oil is designed to be used according to the manufacturer recommended drain intervals. I always refer to wholesale pricing because people can get that pricing with a preferred account. AMSOIL OE is $4.70 per quart. That's even cheaper than Mobil 1 at Walmart. By the case, it's even cheaper than that. If you were going to change your oil every 3k, it would be a waste to use a high end synthetic unless you required the extra protection. I wouldn't use a conventional oil though no matter what drain interval.

You said you had a set of lifters replaced in that truck. That to me indicates that you did have an issue. You didn't go that whole 400k miles without issues. Lifters are metallic parts, and are hydraulic. If they sludge up, their hydraulic function no longer works. If the rollers scar, you have an oil issue. Why do I suggest this was an oil-related issue? Because we have AMSOIL dealers running over 1 million miles on 25k mile oil change intervals who have pristine, brand new looking engines internally with not a single mechanical issue.

In most cases, the "extra cost" of a synthetic oil is negated by the fuel economy increase during cold starts and short trips. A 12-quart case of AMSOIL OE for example is $53.28. That's $4.44 per quart or $22.20 per 5-quart oil change. How much more does that cost than a conventional oil change? You would find that the difference is almost negligible when you pick up a few extra miles on each tank of gas. Keep in mind, I'm only using AMSOIL as an example since I'm a dealer and I know the products well. You can fill in that blank for other good Group 3 synthetic oils.

Super Tech Synthetic is not a Tier 2. It is not even a Tier 3 on my list. From the oil testing analysis reports I've seen of it, the TBN drops fairly rapidly and the oil isn't really good for a drain interval of over 6,000 miles. Furthermore, it starts to lose viscosity after 5,000 miles. Is it decent enough to run at a short oil drain interval? Yeah, you could get away with that, but there are better options out there. That said, there are other reasons why I don't buy my oil from Walmart. As cheap as I am, I still prefer to support my local businesses and buy USA made products whenever possible. I wouldn't run a conventional oil in anything. Synthetic oils have become so inexpensive and there are so many benefits to it that there's just no reason to run a conventional oil anymore. Those 3k mile oil change intervals are a complete waste of time and money no matter how old your engine is. Cars run smoother, get better fuel economy, and are protected far better with a synthetic oil than with conventional oils.

 

What happened to Pennzoil Platinum on your list?

 

Accidentally removed that when I was shifting things around earlier. I added it back under Tier 3.

 

I agree with you totally on that. They didn't rally answer my question either but at least Pennzoil gave me a straight answer.

 

I was unaware Mobile switched to a Mg-based detergent. Attached is my last UOA with Mobil 1 10W30. Sounds like I need to go back and grab as much as I can.

 

You can pretty much be sure that big oil will produce oil at the cheapest rate possible. There are very few of us that will actually know what the numbers mean. Keep in mind that these are the same companies that went from a PAO synthetic to a hydro cracked base stock without telling anyone. As if they were even comparable.

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I think they mean that to the naked eye it is impossible to tell them apart, and that by the numbers generic oils test almost as well as name brand conventionals.

 

My copper and tin numbers were from bearing wear--that engine was modified and had been to the strip a few times. You have to remember the main reason people test their oil. It's never to find out what tier their oil base stock it is. It is unfair to smear a company such as Blackstone or any other oil analysis company for not proving your theory that a top tier oil should test better. Again, remember what they test for: additive and wear elements, viscosity, flashpoint, fuel, antifreeze, water, insolubles, and TBN. UOA are used primarily for monitoring engine wear and oil performance, and perfecting oil change intervals.

 

Royal Purple HPS has been moved to a Tier 3. Sorry RP fans, but I got tired of not finding any data on it anywhere. Royal Purple has something to hide there. It will stay a Tier 3 until I get some specs on it.

That said, I did find a UOA on Royal Purple 5W-30, and it confirms what I've said earlier. This was run in a 1.8L Ecotec.

Despite Blackstone going up and down this report and claiming they find nothing wrong (of course, they didn't test TBN or TAN), there is one glaring issue. This oil was labeled as a 5W-30 oil. Observe the SAE industry kinematic viscosity ranges:

SAE Viscosity	Kinematic (cSt) 100° C Min	Kinematic (cSt) 100° C Max
20	5.6	<9.3
30	9.3	<12.5
40	12.5	<16.3
50	16.3	<21.9
60	21.9	<26.1

In the oil testing analysis, we find a 100C viscosity of 8.7, which means that the Royal Purple oil thinned down to a 20-weight oil within 5k miles. In other words, it is out of spec.

If you had an engine problem such as a failed turbo bearing and GM drained your oil, found this, and sent it in for analysis (believe me, I've talked to GM techs who have), your warranty will be instantly voided and your only recourse will be a lawyer. This engine requires a 30-weight oil, NOT a 20-weight oil. Don't use an oil that thins down to a 20-weight before you can go even 5k miles on it.

 

Interesting. Is this the oil that Royal Purple claims meets dexos1, but that has never been registered with GM as dexos1?


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Reports are from Tomko.

First up we have factory fill DEXOS2 synthetic blend from GM. The detergents seem to be holding up decently as the TBN is still at 2.0. Bear in mind that TBN loss is not a linear function. No moly here. More on that later. Seems to be a lot of break-in metals present, so it's too soon to tell what's going on with those. Virtually no boron.

This I believe was the Mobil 1 from WalMart. Compare to PQI America's test in March of 2013: Petroleum Quality Institute of America. There are a few differences there; mostly in the reduced additive levels across the board. Some of those are quite significant to what PQI tested. Tomko, was this a sample from a quart or a 5-quart jug (I really wanted to see the cheaper 5-quart jug results)? This confirms what I said earlier about Mobil 1 moving toward Mg-based detergents. I'm still researching this, but superficial google searching has noted that Mg tends to leave ash deposits. We do find moly here, which I like, in addition to Boron. Boron is also an anti-wear additive.

Total Quartz Neo. Zero Mg and an entirely Ca-based detergent. A TBN of 6.2 is a bit low, however. We find no moly here either, which indicates that this is a rather cheap oil. Moly is found in EP (extreme pressure) additives which create a surface layer on moving metal parts that has a film strength exceeding 500,000PSI. AMSOILS SS has ~150PPM of moly; more than double what you find in Mobil 1. Since oil makers are limited in how much phosphorous they can put in oils (ZDDP) for EP additives, moly is used in conjunction with phosphorous when the oil maker requires additional protection. We don't find that here, and we don't find boron either.

The DEXOS2 and Total Quarts appear to be plain-jane oils that provide no special anti-wear or high-pressure additives beneficial for reducing engine wear. I would prefer to use an oil that does feature those additives, but those additives cost money to include in engine oils.

Tomko, do you mind if I take this opportunity to create a comparison between the Mobil 1 and AMSOIL SS?

 

The Mobil 1 came from a small bottle bought at Wal-Mart - not a larger jug.

On the factory oil we still don't know if it's a semi- or full synthetic. But now we do know that it is a 5w30 and not something closer to a 5w40 as some opined.

I wonder if the lack of moly may have something to do with the dexos2 specification or the low-saps. It's an interesting question.

No problem for drawing apples-to-apples comparisons with other competitive products. And thanks for getting the results up. Hopefully other members will contribute their own oil analyses to the discussion.


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The Mobil 1 came from a small bottle bought at Wal-Mart - not a larger jug.

On the factory oil we still don't know if it's a semi- or full synthetic. But now we do know that it is a 5w30 and not something closer to a 5w40 as some opined.

I wonder if the lack of moly may have something to do with the dexos2 specification or the low-saps. It's an interesting question.

No problem for drawing apples-to-apples comparisons with other competitive products. And thanks for getting the results up. Hopefully other members will contribute their own oil analyses to the discussion.


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I do not know if the factory fill is a synthetic blend, only that the GM dexos2 bottles you can buy are a synthetic blend. Unfortunately Blackstone doesn't test for NOACK volatility.

I have seen a lack of Moly in many other oils.

Here is a VOA I found for Mobil 1 ESP on the TDI forums, which shows significant levels of Moly and Boron. Note that TBN reduction is far slower when it comes to Diesel oils.

 

On the factory we still don't know if it's a semi- or full synthetic. But now we do know that it is a 5w30 and not something closer to a 5w40 as some opined.

At that mileage, it may have sheared down a bit and been near the top of the -30 scale at the beginning of its life. That viscosity at that mileage is actually not bad at all.

 

A rather interesting oil testing specimen this time.
Link: http://imageshack.com/a/img15/6433/98sz.png

Let's analyze this one for a bit. This is AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30 in a Chevy Cruze 1.4T ECO MT (not mine), with ~100k miles on it. Sample had 11,236 miles on it. First thing I want to bring to your attention is TBN. Starting is 12.6-12.8. This tested at 5.65. Keep in mind that TBN is not a linear reduction. In fact, the decay reduces exponentially with mileage.

We see a depletion in Moly (extreme pressure) and Born (anti-wear) additives as well as Calcium (detergent) levels.

Now for the problem. 3.6% fuel dilution, resulting in a viscosity of 8.1. That is effectively a 20-weight oil. This particular sample led me to research the causes of fuel dilution. This engine lost and burned absolutely no oil. I then found a TSB from AMSOIL about this.

www.amsoil.com/techservicesbulletin/MotorOil/TSB MO 2004-07-02 Fuel Dilution.pdf

The TSB notes a few causes for fuel dilution:

• Leaking injectors
• Excessive idle time
• Incomplete combustion
• Cool engine operating conditions
• Frequent short trip driving
• Performance chips/engine modifications
• Restricted air filter/bad air to fuel ratio
• Worn piston rings/excessive blow-by
• Incorrect choke settings
• Towing/lugging engine
• Fuel pump/over fueling
• Seals and gaskets
• Improper injector timing

We can write off some of the obvious ones. In this particular case, the vehicle:

• Idled for extended periods of over one hour and sometimes up to 5 hours results in cool engine operating conditions. This is basically two of those causes in one. This idling occurred with the heat on, which means that any fuel that seeped past the pistons would not be burned off due to the lack of sufficient engine operating temperature. Remember, the 1.4T does not produce enough heat to remain at operating temperature when the heater is on max and the fan is on the 3rd or 4th setting (ECO) out of 4.
• Tuned by vtuner. Remember that at WOT, our engines dump a significant amount of fuel to combat EGT (exhaust gas temperature) and reduce combustion chamber temperatures. The owner of this vehicle had occasions where he drove under heavy loads for extended periods of time.

I wouldn't really include any of the others causes, but it I wanted to bring to your attention the issue that this car can have with fuel contamination. I am fairly certain that, given the maintenance records for this vehicle, there is not something significantly wrong with this vehicle. However, the fuel dilution nonetheless brought the viscosity down to an SAE 20 weight.

Fortunately, however, it seems that this engine tolerates a viscosity drop without any immediate adverse results. Wear metals are spectacularly low, which is even more noteworthy given that we are looking at an 11,200 mile sample. Wear metals are practically nonexistent, which would be great for a 5,000 mile sample, excellent for a 11,200 mile sample, and are unbelievable for an 11,200 mile sample that thinned to a 20 weight from fuel dilution. Seems that when it thinned, this oil did a fine job at protecting that motor.

 

Wow, hope my wear metals come down like that.
Was showing 10x the iron @ 9k miles.

 

Yeah, and did you see that TBN? Amazing, and that's with Ca-based detergents, not Mg-based.

Yours will improve as the engine breaks in. This sample was from an engine that had 100k miles on it. I need to find another UOA on this motor to compare wear metals to.

 

I wanted to updated everyone on some insight to Pennzoil Ultra. I'm not sure were Xtreme saw that it is not 100% synthetic but that's besides the point. I talked to a friend who owns an oil supplier business and as a dealer/vendor of Pennzoil, I thought it would be a good idea to pick his brain on how Walmart can sell Ultra so cheap.

Based on from his discussions with Gulf reps., he believes its all muscle and thus the product is exactly the same in a 5 quart jug versus 1 quart bottles from an auto store. Have you every seen 5 quart jugs of Ultra at an auto parts store? No you haven't. Apparently Walmart paid an to have exclusive rights to sell Ultra (and I suspect this is the same with other oils) in branded 5 quart jugs.

Another reasoning to how can they make money on this, is that Walmart controls all touch points. Pennzoil does not have to do the distributing for this and that alone says Walmart a ton.

Just my .02c and for the record, I'm going to give Amsoil SS a shot next oil change!

 

Makes sense.


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