Electrically driven turbos
  1. Welcome to Chevy Cruze Forum : Chevrolet Cruze Forums General discussion forum for Chevy Cruze

    Welcome to Chevy Cruze Forum : Chevrolet Cruze Forums - a website dedicated to all things Chevy Cruze.

    You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, Join Chevy Cruze Forum : Chevrolet Cruze Forums today!
     
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 29
Like Tree10Likes

Thread: Electrically driven turbos

  1. #1
    Autocross Champion
    titan2782's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,973

    Electrically driven turbos

    No, not the ebay special that promise 1 psi

    Thinking about turbo lag and heat problems. Part of the heat issue and lag is the way the turbine is spun - with exhaust. Why not make the turbo more like a centrifugal supercharger but instead of spinning the turbine with the belt or exhaust, why not spin it with an electric motor? Electric motors are good enough to drive hybrids. They have no torque curve, it's instant torque from 0 - infinity RPM's. The turbine could spin instantly and make lag a thing of the past.

    I can't see any parasitic loss occurring from powering a motor. I'm sure some smart people could come up with something. So why havent we? You wouldn't need all that complex piping and you'd reduce the heat and lag.

    Why not? I'm not an engineer so tell me where my thinking is flawed.
    smoove87 likes this.
    2014 Genesis Coupe 3.8 R-Spec
    2011 Cruze Eco
    : Traded for something better

  2. #2
    World Rally Champion
    H3LLON3ARTH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    4,455
    Quote Originally Posted by titan2782 View Post
    No, not the ebay special that promise 1 psi

    Thinking about turbo lag and heat problems. Part of the heat issue and lag is the way the turbine is spun - with exhaust. Why not make the turbo more like a centrifugal supercharger but instead of spinning the turbine with the belt or exhaust, why not spin it with an electric motor? Electric motors are good enough to drive hybrids. They have no torque curve, it's instant torque from 0 - infinity RPM's. The turbine could spin instantly and make lag a thing of the past.

    I can't see any parasitic loss occurring from powering a motor. I'm sure some smart people could come up with something. So why havent we? You wouldn't need all that complex piping and you'd reduce the heat and lag.

    Why not? I'm not an engineer so tell me where my thinking is flawed.
    The thing I see wrong with it would be loss of mpg due to it not reusing non burnt fuel and the power would be therw but you would have to design it differently than anything we've seen then how would you lubricate the turbine and also you have to think how long will the electric motor last compared to normal turbos and the heat would still be therw due to friction just not like it is with exhaust.

    Sent from my Droid using AutoGuide.Com Free App
    GO FOR GOLD

    http://www.youtube.com/user/H377ON3ARTH?feature=mhee


    2012 ECO 6MT


    Current Mods:
    K&N Typhoon Short Ram Intake,Tinted Windows, Custom Made Cat Back Exhaust With IMCO High Flow Muffler, Trifecta Performance Tune Plasti-dipped stock ECO rims, ZZP Down-pipe, M-Tech Shifter Shortener, 15" Incriminator Audio Subwoofer in Custom Built Box pushed by a Hifonics BRZ-2100.


  3. #3
    Autocross Champion
    titan2782's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,973
    Quote Originally Posted by H3LLON3ARTH View Post
    The thing I see wrong with it would be loss of mpg due to it not reusing non burnt fuel and the power would be therw but you would have to design it differently than anything we've seen then how would you lubricate the turbine and also you have to think how long will the electric motor last compared to normal turbos and the heat would still be therw due to friction just not like it is with exhaust.

    Sent from my Droid using AutoGuide.Com Free App
    Turbo's do not recycle unburnt fuel. It may ignite inside of the turbine to help propel it, but it does not make it's way back into the engine. Any unburnt fuel will recirculated through any emissions system (e.g. the EGR).

    1) How do centrifugal superchargers lubricate themselves? Last one I dealt with had ceramic bearings that were doused in oil.
    2) The turbo would remain the same. The only different is that a motor would drive the turbine instead of exhaust.
    3) What makes you think an electric motor wouldn't outlast the engine?

    Maybe I should restate my question to "Electrically powered centrifugal supercharger". Maybe the "turbo" aspect is causing confusion.
    2014 Genesis Coupe 3.8 R-Spec
    2011 Cruze Eco
    : Traded for something better

  4. #4
    Duke of Oil

    XtremeRevolution's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Where the stars and stripes and eagles fly.
    Posts
    12,316
    It never worked in the past because you simply needed MUCH too much power and large electric motors with banks of batteries. That said, you might be able to get away with less on such a small displacement motor if you're only using it to reduce turbo lag.

    However, a pulley driven and clutch-engaged (similar to an A/C compressor) centrifugal turbine would be in my opinion a better option.
    Amsoil Products Info, Ordering, & CruzeTalk.com Discounts


    XtremeRevolution & Co. Mobile Audio Parts :: XtremeRevolution.net



    "When freedom is at odds with government policy, one of two things eventually happens: Either freedom is crushed, or political leaders are forced out in disgrace and replaced with guardians of individual liberty."

    "...the Supreme Court has ruled that the right to keep and bear arms exists independently of the Second Amendment...the Bill of Rights is a reminder to the government, not [an] authorization..."

  5. #5
    Autocross Champion
    titan2782's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,973
    Quote Originally Posted by XtremeRevolution View Post
    It never worked in the past because you simply needed MUCH too much power and large electric motors with banks of batteries. That said, you might be able to get away with less on such a small displacement motor if you're only using it to reduce turbo lag.

    However, a pulley driven and clutch-engaged (similar to an A/C compressor) centrifugal turbine would be in my opinion a better option.
    pulley driven systems are limited by RPM and pulley size (multiplication). if you had an electric motor driving it, you could control the motor to provide a custom profile not achievable with a pulley drive.

    Banks of batteries? While I agree that a beefy alternator or some other power supply would be needed, I don't think it would be that extreme But again, I have no idea. I don't see it being done and there has to be a reason.

    I'm sure we could easily do some math and determine what kind of motor would be needed and it's requirements.
    2014 Genesis Coupe 3.8 R-Spec
    2011 Cruze Eco
    : Traded for something better

  6. #6
    Resident Tater Salad

    jblackburn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    8,794
    Think a leafblower motor to spin at an RPM even remotely useful just to prevent lag. Them things are ginormous and super loud.

    Turbos spin at upwards of 100,000 RPM under full boost. Superchargers are roughly 1/2 that. Few big electric motors go that fast.
    Last edited by jblackburn; 12-12-2012 at 03:06 PM.
    2012 Cruze 1LT 6M


  7. #7
    Duke of Oil

    XtremeRevolution's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Where the stars and stripes and eagles fly.
    Posts
    12,316
    Quote Originally Posted by titan2782 View Post
    pulley driven systems are limited by RPM and pulley size (multiplication). if you had an electric motor driving it, you could control the motor to provide a custom profile not achievable with a pulley drive.

    Banks of batteries? While I agree that a beefy alternator or some other power supply would be needed, I don't think it would be that extreme But again, I have no idea. I don't see it being done and there has to be a reason.

    I'm sure we could easily do some math and determine what kind of motor would be needed and it's requirements.
    Indeed, pulley driven systems are limited by RPM, but you won't need much to alleviate turbo lag. Keep that in mind. This is simply a complement to the existing turbo.

    It has been done before, and it did require a bank of batteries and three large motors. You simply don't have enough electricity for sustained use to produce the amount of constant pressure you would need. That, and you also have to make it worth the extra weight you're adding.

    Thomas Knight Turbo Electric Supercharger - Tech Review - Turbo Magazine
    Amsoil Products Info, Ordering, & CruzeTalk.com Discounts


    XtremeRevolution & Co. Mobile Audio Parts :: XtremeRevolution.net



    "When freedom is at odds with government policy, one of two things eventually happens: Either freedom is crushed, or political leaders are forced out in disgrace and replaced with guardians of individual liberty."

    "...the Supreme Court has ruled that the right to keep and bear arms exists independently of the Second Amendment...the Bill of Rights is a reminder to the government, not [an] authorization..."

  8. #8
    Resident Tater Salad

    jblackburn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    8,794
    Besides, there's better turbo technologies out there that can help reduce or prevent lag.

    BMW uses two small turbos to provide consistent power throughout the rev range. Ford's diesel uses twin-scroll turbos that essentially incorporate a small and large turbocharger into one for both low-end power (and little lag) and good top-end power. Dodge's diesel uses a variable geometry turbocharger with movable fins to get the same effect.

    Both may become commonplace as gasoline engines continue to be downsized and the technology comes down in price/up in reliability.
    Last edited by jblackburn; 12-12-2012 at 03:14 PM.
    2012 Cruze 1LT 6M


  9. #9
    4th Gear
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Hot Springs, AR
    Posts
    720
    Electric supercharging technology exists. Here is a link to a story on the Society for Automotive Engineers website.

    Valeo's electric supercharger targeted for 2015-16 production
    jblackburn likes this.

  10. #10
    Duke of Oil

    XtremeRevolution's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Where the stars and stripes and eagles fly.
    Posts
    12,316
    Quote Originally Posted by Dale_K View Post
    Electric supercharging technology exists. Here is a link to a story on the Society for Automotive Engineers website.

    Valeo's electric supercharger targeted for 2015-16 production
    It would be interesting to see how much those will cost, and where they're getting the 2,000W of power from.
    Amsoil Products Info, Ordering, & CruzeTalk.com Discounts


    XtremeRevolution & Co. Mobile Audio Parts :: XtremeRevolution.net



    "When freedom is at odds with government policy, one of two things eventually happens: Either freedom is crushed, or political leaders are forced out in disgrace and replaced with guardians of individual liberty."

    "...the Supreme Court has ruled that the right to keep and bear arms exists independently of the Second Amendment...the Bill of Rights is a reminder to the government, not [an] authorization..."

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Similar Threads

  1. Fastest Car You've Ever Driven
    By yourdoinitwrong in forum Off Topic Discussion
    Replies: 98
    Last Post: 04-03-2012, 09:23 PM
  2. Some old turbos
    By 70x7 in forum Cruze Owners - Other Cars/Toys
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-31-2011, 05:00 PM
  3. Cruze Review.....driven 3000 mi.
    By jaygeo1 in forum General Discussion Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-21-2011, 10:07 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.1.2