Antifreeze Smell Thread

[Jim Frye]

I interned with a Tier 1 automotive supplier for 4 summers in the engineering department while in college and my son is a senior designer for a Tier 1 automotive supplier in their R&D group for the last 25 yrs. My experience with design/engineering problems is that a non-recall level problem is usually assigned to an engineer and a couple of lab technicians to work on problem determination and resolution. What about the rest of the engineering/design staff? They are hard at work on scheduled update and new design targets. I don't know for sure if this is what's going on here, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was.

[gt_cristian]

Any dismissal or support of my temperature-related hypothesis?

Does anybody with the smell get it on short trips before the car is fully warmed up? Or does it only happen when the car is warmed up?

Same here! I don't have a temp display on the DIC, but I used to smell antifreeze only on the highway after at least 15 minutes of driving wit the heater on low (1/4). Turning on the heater in summer time did not result into antifreeze smell. On certain humid spring or fall days I could smell coolant while the temps were above the freezing point. That was on my 2011 I had to trade off after 8 repair attempts...

I have 600 miles on my 2013 and no signs of coolant loss or smell.

[Silver Streak]

My 2012 Cruze DIC allows me to monitor coolant temperature while driving. Yesterday with approx 40 F outside air temp, while driving on the highway, the coolant temp was ranging from 219 to 225 F. Max speed I was doing was about 72 mph. Drive time of 30 minutes. This morning with the car cold, I did the following;
1. finally found the line on the surge tank that shows where the fill level should be. It was conveniently covered up from my view by a ground wire that attaches to the LH strut tower. I used a Sharpie marker to darken the arrow.
2. filled the surge tank with a 50/50 mixture of coolant and water to the top of the arrow.
DSC_0031.jpg

This picture shows my tank at it's current level after filling it this morning. Of the two visible black lines, the top is where I was when I checked at the end of April 2012, and the lower mark is where I was this morning before adding more coolant. A difference of about 10k miles. Visible is the large diameter hose that is attached to the bottom of the surge tank which then connects to a Y-junction by the heater core.

The next picture shows the other smaller diameter line into the surge tank. Starting the car cold this morning after adding more coolant, using a flash light I could see that this line was continuously feeding into the surge tank. The new coolant I added quickly mixed into the system based on the color differences between them. Again, the surge tank is not like the overflow bottle of other vehicles. It has constant circulation with the rest of the cooling system. It also has a pressure cap on it, since in the case of the Cruze, it is the sole point to be used for checking your cooling system and adding coolant. If you add coolant (or any liquid) into the surge tank, it will mix once you start the engine.
DSC_0034.jpg

My plan is to drive the car and see if my underhood coolant smell is changed. I also intend to install a hose off the vent like the TSB. In my case, I intend to use some clear tubing rather than the black hose. Using clear tubing may allow me to see any traces of coolant on the inside that can't be seen with the black hose. More to come after I do some more driving.

[gt_cristian]

Starting the car cold this morning after adding more coolant, using a flash light I could see that this line was continuously feeding into the surge tank. The new coolant I added quickly mixed into the system based on the color differences between them. Again, the surge tank is not like the overflow bottle of other vehicles. It has constant circulation with the rest of the cooling system. It also has a pressure cap on it, since in the case of the Cruze, it is the sole point to be used for checking your cooling system and adding coolant. If you add coolant (or any liquid) into the surge tank, it will mix once you start the engine.

I can confirm I observed the same behaviour when adding coolant dye. It gets mixed up pretty fast.

[obermd]

My 2012 Cruze DIC allows me to monitor coolant temperature while driving. Yesterday with approx 40 F outside air temp, while driving on the highway, the coolant temp was ranging from 119 to 125 F. Max speed I was doing was about 72 mph. Drive time of 30 minutes. This morning with the car cold, I did the following;
1. finally found the line on the surge tank that shows where the fill level should be. It was conveniently covered up from my view by a ground wire that attaches to the LH strut tower. I used a Sharpie marker to darken the arrow.
2. filled the surge tank with a 50/50 mixture of coolant and water to the top of the arrow.
Attachment 10247

This picture shows my tank at it's current level after filling it this morning. Of the two visible black lines, the top is where I was when I checked at the end of April 2012, and the lower mark is where I was this morning before adding more coolant. A difference of about 10k miles. Visible is the large diameter hose that is attached to the bottom of the surge tank which then connects to a Y-junction by the heater core.

The next picture shows the other smaller diameter line into the surge tank. Starting the car cold this morning after adding more coolant, using a flash light I could see that this line was continuously feeding into the surge tank. The new coolant I added quickly mixed into the system based on the color differences between them. Again, the surge tank is not like the overflow bottle of other vehicles. It has constant circulation with the rest of the cooling system. It also has a pressure cap on it, since in the case of the Cruze, it is the sole point to be used for checking your cooling system and adding coolant. If you add coolant (or any liquid) into the surge tank, it will mix once you start the engine.
Attachment 10248

My plan is to drive the car and see if my underhood coolant smell is changed. I also intend to install a hose off the vent like the TSB. In my case, I intend to use some clear tubing rather than the black hose. Using clear tubing may allow me to see any traces of coolant on the inside that can't be seen with the black hose. More to come after I do some more driving.

Don't you mean 219-225F?

[BigSkyMontana]

Any dismissal or support of my temperature-related hypothesis?

Does anybody with the smell get it on short trips before the car is fully warmed up? Or does it only happen when the car is warmed up?

Short trips for me not a problem. Only when the temp increases. Faint smell begins around 170ish, but when I start moving into 190s - 200's it becomes stronger. I have to manipulate the temp control knob by backing down to the 1:00 position. Still have a faint smell, but I don't have to "suit up." I think it also depends on my driving habits and outside temp.

[H3LLON3ARTH]

well i smelled it just about 20 min ago i havent had the heater on in three days now and it was stronger than ever. i guess i will contact my dealer one more time about this issue tomorrow but i doubt they will smell it.

[jblackburn]

A thought:

Those of you that had your coolant topped off from when it was originally low, there was a difference of this much between the bottom of the "fill" arrow and the top line that it points to. There's still plenty in the tank when cold for it to do what it needs to do.

Since reducing the level, mine has not smelled nearly as much.



Your car would not lose that much coolant unless it had the leaking water pump issue. No way that much is going to evaporate off in a matter of months through pressure released from that recovery tank.

[BigSkyMontana]

Slide1.JPG

After the TSB I noticed I still have a gap as indicated in this picture. Apparently the TSB doesn't call for sealing this area, but only the right/left side of the air inlet grille. Has anyone heard differently, or if you had the TSB completed was this area sealed?

Slide2.JPG
Foam seal - gaps intermittent across top edge of cowl space. Foam seal not making complete contact with metal top edge. Not sure if hood closed would press foam seal. Tried to press down with hand--no give. Does anyone know if TSB addresess this area to seal?

Slide3.JPG
Does anyone know what this white deposit might be? It appears to be a dried liquid. Antifreeze released from surge tank pressure cap?

[lhall]

OK, had PI0740 performed today. As far as the seals go, I didn't see them in place (despite the fact I asked to be shown this) but was told essentially the same as what you found
BigSkyMontana. The seals are along the sides under the cowl so they aren't visible unless you remove the cowl. My tech was skeptical (as I am) that this is going to do allot or at least that this is an actual solution to the problem. He believes a redesigned surge tank is the only real solution. At most, this is a patch to keep the smell from building up in the engine compartment and transferring to the passenger compartment. If it can do this, it's an improvement that I will welcome for the short-term.

Since the ride home was relatively short and the day cold, it took to the end of the trip to get up to operating temperature (220-230F). There wasn't allot of time to evaluate how well this was keeping the smell out. I will say that I didn't smell any fumes on this short ride, which is the one positive thing. But it's way too early to celebrate. In addition, when I got out of the car, I distinctly smelled AF. I could even still smell it under the hood when I lifted it, though perhaps that's just backdraft from the extension hose... I fear I am making too many excuses for a broken and inadequate system.

I'll give this a few days before calling GM about this for a case #. Even if it successfully keeps the fumes out of the passenger compartment, I'm still convinced this is not a solution to the core problem - the fumes themselves. I don't want to smell AF every time I get out of my car, even if I don't have to smell them when I'm driving. I have trouble believing that GM could make a solid argument that this is an acceptable way for this car to operate. I certainly don't consider it acceptable.

I'll report back in a few days after driving it a bit to give an update.