Removed Trifecta Tune.. for now. - Page 7
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Thread: Removed Trifecta Tune.. for now.

  1. #61
    World Rally Champion 70AARCUDA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyTaurus View Post
    That must be a different 1.4 then, because I could've sworn GM claims the Cruze 1.4T in America is an all-new engine.
    That's what happens when you "...drink..." the GM Kool-Aid™ (wink,wink).

    However, the 1.4 LT was "all-new-to-America" when it first arrived here in the Cruze in late-summer 2011...
    Last edited by 70AARCUDA; 12-05-2012 at 10:10 PM.
    • 2011 Chevrolet Cruze LTZ 1.4LT 6A
    • 2009 Pontiac Vibe 1.8L/SFI 4A
    • 2004 Pontiac Vibe 1.8L/MFI 4A

    • 1971 Dodge Charger 318 3A
    • 1970½ Plymouth AAR 'Cuda 340/6BBL 4M
    • 1968 Dodge Charger 383 3A
    • 1967 Plymouth Barracuda Formula-S 383 4M
    • 1965 Plymouth Barracuda Formula-S 273 4M

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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by titan2782 View Post
    Has anyone installed the tune and continued to drive normal and seen a significant increase? IMO, it's a sugar pill. Placebo. At least until we have proven facts.
    My complete fuelly log is available on my sig. You are more than willing to sift through 86 fuel ups :P

    I installed the tune late Sept 2011. Yes it increases fuel economy in pretty much every condition other than steady state highway cruising. However, as I said before I am an automatic so I personally believe that is most of the gain.

    Quote Originally Posted by GM Master Tech View Post
    The Key is Vermont tuning has a lot of experience with Opel.Now what is a Cruze ! I am not saying Trifecta does not have there strong points.But i really think Vermont offers a better thought out and executed tune for a cruze
    Vermont tuning is putting out the better track numbers. However, the product and parts are flat out more $$$$$. I don't think you can go wrong with either tune honestly. However, most people prefer Trifecta because they focus on the driveability aspect and less on track performance. Being able to toggle between "Power" and "Eco" at the flip of a shifter is much more convenient. Furthermore, there is more vendor support available and more members on the site have Trifecta if you need any additional questions. Also, Vermont Tuning is using several internal modifications that will scream a "red flag" when service guys look in your engine bay. Although GM can technically find either tune, people will feel more comfortable leaving the evidence in the car's computer than being out in the open for anyone to see...
    Last edited by ErikBEggs; 12-05-2012 at 06:47 PM.

  4. #63
    5th Gear GM Master Tech's Avatar
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    Well i figure i will try the vermont tune and see how it goes.I can look at data and see whats changed to a point.Maybe i could compare notes with someone here with the trifecta.There is no tell tale signs with the vermont tune under the hood.Provideing your only doing the tune.And anyone should remove the tune anyway if the engine check light is on.Before a trip to the dealer.As far as Opel involvement in the 1.4T engine.I just look as GM using Opels expertise to build the power plant and engine management system.Really not a bad idea.To me drive the Cruze it feels like it detuned to a point.I think a tune that can put out 20hp and 30lbTQ would make the car just perfect.

  5. #64
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    Response i received from Vermont related to tuning and Driveability


    Yes, your Cruze will maintain the same mileage after the Stage 0 upgrade providing that you drive it conservatively or use the cruise control (if you get into the boost more it will use more fuel of course). We maintain the stock driving characteristics under light throttle inputs so you will not notice any unusual behavior, just more power on tap as your right foot asks for it. The tune is active in both the D and manual ranges. We can optimize the tuning for any grade fuel you wish to use - as a general rule of thumb on the 1.4T you will loose around 10hp for every 2 octane numbers below 93 that you use, ie 93 = 170hp, 91 = 160hp, 89 = 150hp. Peak torque of 180 lb/ft is still available with the lower grades of fuel, but it drops off sooner in the power band with lower octane.
    We will download your original calibration and save it to the hand held and verify which release you have, so you can be sure that we use the latest software released for your Cruze and you can flash your exact original back to your Cruze anytime you wish. Yes, the calibration changes are essentially as you say (raising torque limiters and adjusting the boost calibration, in addition to fueling and ignition timing adjustments), though this is an extreme simplification of the process and there are many adjustments required. To give you an better idea - there are over 18,000 calibration parameters used to control your Cruze's 1.4T engine. We only need to adjust a small fraction of these to obtain the desired results, but you can better appreciate that the complexity a little by knowing how many parameters we must sort through and test to find what changes are required. Any engine control system can be distilled down to simple terms of air/spark/fuel, but modern engine management systems are vastly more complex than that would suggest (and getting more complex every year).

    The ignition timing and boost pressure will be automatically reduced if any knock is detected, so peak power will be reduced with either the stock calibration or our Stage 0 calibrations when any knock is detected. For best performance I recommend matching the octane you use to the recommended octane we specify for your Stage 0 calibration. This will also maximize the margin of safety of your tune against detonation events rather than relying so extensively on the knock sensor signal output.


  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyTaurus View Post
    Yup. I switched back. I'm sure going to miss the extra pep, but my Cruze was having too many problems with the tune. Vince tried explaining that it was normal, but I'm sorry, I'm no dummy.

    I originally had the occaisional P2097 - Post Catalyst Fuel Trim Over Limit. Vince sent me a 'fix tune' to take care of the code. Said it was nothing to worry about, and he's had 7 years of tuning experience to back it up. My response is, 'Why is no one else setting this code then?' It would happen on light cruising after some harder accelerations. I didn't think much of it.

    Now, my check engine light came on today. After checking the codes via EZFlash, I now have not only the P2097, but 6 other codes. Fuel trim codes, Barometric codes, IAT codes, and Pressure codes. The turbo is functioning properly, I've already look into it. The turbo was my first guess.

    I took the tune off and cleared the codes. I'm going to provide proof of the question everyone seems to have with the tune. 'Is fuel economy really better with the tune?'

    My answer after driving 20 miles after reverting to stock tune, 'It's not looking good for Trifecta." I was able to maintain a 57mpg at 10inHg of vacuum while cruising in 4th (manual trans), which even with the 'Eco-tune' at the same vacuum, I only saw 38mpg. I'm going to test the mpg on stock tune tomorrow on my commute to work. I was able to achieve a best of 43.5mpg via tune, I'm going to see if I can beat it. I will post results.
    Just curious...I see you have listed that you have a K&N filter on there. Are the charge pipes clean? Re-oiled your filter lately? Some a thin film of oil can end up on the sensors along the way to engine if the filter over oiled a little bit. I would try MAF cleaner on all of them. Even if you don't over oil by accident I would still clean the MAF or other related sensors atleest once a year with MAF cleaner. Let us know if this takes care of the problem.


    92 Mitsu Eclipse GSX - 9.5:1 E85 build almost done!
    06 Chevy Colorado - Best tank of 30.4 mpg on 91 oct. E0
    91 Octane tune by SuperModulation of 355nation
    Amsoil Cone, Supersparkz, SFan4500, Big 3 Cable Kit
    11 Cruze Eco - Best fillup of 51 mpg.
    K&N Intake w/ 5" Amsoil(Injen) Filter
    Tifecta Tuned 91 pump
    Big 3 Cable Kit
    Ignition coil resistors removed
    0.035" spark plug gap currently

  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by GM Master Tech View Post
    Response i received from Vermont related to tuning and Driveability


    Yes, your Cruze will maintain the same mileage after the Stage 0 upgrade providing that you drive it conservatively or use the cruise control (if you get into the boost more it will use more fuel of course). We maintain the stock driving characteristics under light throttle inputs so you will not notice any unusual behavior, just more power on tap as your right foot asks for it. The tune is active in both the D and manual ranges. We can optimize the tuning for any grade fuel you wish to use - as a general rule of thumb on the 1.4T you will loose around 10hp for every 2 octane numbers below 93 that you use, ie 93 = 170hp, 91 = 160hp, 89 = 150hp. Peak torque of 180 lb/ft is still available with the lower grades of fuel, but it drops off sooner in the power band with lower octane.
    We will download your original calibration and save it to the hand held and verify which release you have, so you can be sure that we use the latest software released for your Cruze and you can flash your exact original back to your Cruze anytime you wish. Yes, the calibration changes are essentially as you say (raising torque limiters and adjusting the boost calibration, in addition to fueling and ignition timing adjustments), though this is an extreme simplification of the process and there are many adjustments required. To give you an better idea - there are over 18,000 calibration parameters used to control your Cruze's 1.4T engine. We only need to adjust a small fraction of these to obtain the desired results, but you can better appreciate that the complexity a little by knowing how many parameters we must sort through and test to find what changes are required. Any engine control system can be distilled down to simple terms of air/spark/fuel, but modern engine management systems are vastly more complex than that would suggest (and getting more complex every year).

    The ignition timing and boost pressure will be automatically reduced if any knock is detected, so peak power will be reduced with either the stock calibration or our Stage 0 calibrations when any knock is detected. For best performance I recommend matching the octane you use to the recommended octane we specify for your Stage 0 calibration. This will also maximize the margin of safety of your tune against detonation events rather than relying so extensively on the knock sensor signal output.

    Sounds like standard boilerplate to me. When I dealt with VT while I was building the log visualizer and my tune problems, I got a similar response about 400+ data points that could be logged. They like to use numbers in their responses to enhance the credibility (see book: Art of Deception). All in all, both vendors bad mouthed the other and claimed the other wasn't competent because they don't understand XYZ. Sounds like the same thing you would get from Trifecta. Big deal. We still don't know what they changed.
    No more Cruze Now driving a 2014 Genesis Coup 3.8 R-Spec.

  8. #67
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    I have not seen any bad mouthing or at least i have not found it here.What i do find interesting is one turns the boost up to 18 or 19 psi and the other runs 21 to 22 psi.The dyno sheets look simalair with the best graph going to vermont.

  9. #68
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  10. #69
    Off-Road Champion OnlyTaurus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErickysGSX View Post
    Just curious...I see you have listed that you have a K&N filter on there. Are the charge pipes clean? Re-oiled your filter lately? Some a thin film of oil can end up on the sensors along the way to engine if the filter over oiled a little bit. I would try MAF cleaner on all of them. Even if you don't over oil by accident I would still clean the MAF or other related sensors atleest once a year with MAF cleaner. Let us know if this takes care of the problem.
    Yes, I was planning on inspecting the sensors at work today. Thanks for the head up though!
    2012 Cruze RS-T 6M
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    - Tuned for E85 @ 24psi, 440cc Bosch Injectors, Spec Stage 3 Clutch, CXRacing FMIC, ZZP Down and Catted Midpipe, Forge BOV, K&N Typhoon SRI, Custom Magnaflow Catback, Big 3 Ground Kit, Mobil 1 Oil, RP 75w90 Trans Fluid.
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    210hp/270tq on E85.
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  11. #70
    World Rally Champion 70AARCUDA's Avatar
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    ...from a much earlier posting:

    Quote Originally Posted by 70AARCUDA View Post
    ...ever get oil-film on your glasses and suddenly everthing you see is "fuzzy"?

    ...well, now, just imagine that same oil-film on the MAP or MAF sensor and imagine how "fuzzy" the air readings are the ECU is "seeing."
    OnlyTaurus likes this.
    • 2011 Chevrolet Cruze LTZ 1.4LT 6A
    • 2009 Pontiac Vibe 1.8L/SFI 4A
    • 2004 Pontiac Vibe 1.8L/MFI 4A

    • 1971 Dodge Charger 318 3A
    • 1970½ Plymouth AAR 'Cuda 340/6BBL 4M
    • 1968 Dodge Charger 383 3A
    • 1967 Plymouth Barracuda Formula-S 383 4M
    • 1965 Plymouth Barracuda Formula-S 273 4M

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