Gauging interest for Custom compact sub box - Page 2
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Thread: Gauging interest for Custom compact sub box

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian v View Post
    I totally agree with those ideas given the restraints of the allowable space of a fixed enclosure .
    so if we do the math considering resonance and accounting for this issue a little more depth , May attribute to better SQ.
    I have yet to see someone calculate expected resonance or distortion from backwaves in sub boxes. Too many variables.

    One would need to have an idea of what sub they want to use before they go about building a box if SQ is a priority. Otherwise, space savings and concealment becomes the primary advantage.

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  3. #12
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    Hence your question how much allowable volume/ you have a given dimensions to your designs to help you when designing enclosures, and I am sure that you consider the variables to the best of your abilities when factoring SQ in the build ,we are throwing theories with tests and trials .we can theorize with established acceptable tolerances when known.I think I recall you ask for 1 square foot of depth for acceptable back compression,for distortion. We are trying to help interested parties..
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  4. #13
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    I get the Fiberglass thick enoug that it doesn't flex and it gets strong enough to handle the force of the woffer and they do sound good. The boxes that I do get close to one cubic foot so most 10s and 12s work in a one cubic foot box. The boxes are not for a total audio nut that wants perfect sound they are made to give the customer some good low end sound not perfect low end sound.

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    Will a duel coil 8 inch by polk give any more sound quality ,or perform with out the back wave distortion?
    Have you built any down firing enclosures ? Experiment/
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  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by billseast View Post
    I get the Fiberglass thick enoug that it doesn't flex and it gets strong enough to handle the force of the woffer and they do sound good. The boxes that I do get close to one cubic foot so most 10s and 12s work in a one cubic foot box. The boxes are not for a total audio nut that wants perfect sound they are made to give the customer some good low end sound not perfect low end sound.
    It's not a matter of strength with regard to holding the pressure created by the woofer; it's a matter of resonance created by the sound waves and harmonics. Extremely strong materials will still resonate. I will admit, this is an issue of high end sound quality and not something that most people wanting a bit more oomph will really care about.

    However, internal volume is an entirely different story. You don't have to be a total audio nut to be able to tell the difference between a good sounding box and a boomy sounding box.

    Exhibit A: Dayton HF 10
    Dayton Audio RSS265HF-4 10" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm 295-460

    This sub is a 10" sub that will NOT sound good in 1 cubic foot of space. In fact, it requires at least 1.25 cubic feet to sound decent. 1.3 cubic feet is the best compromise between size and sound quality.

    Exhibit B: Infinity 1262W
    Infinity 1262w Reference Series 12" subwoofer with dual 4-ohm voice coils at Crutchfield.com

    This sub requires 1.5 cubic feet.


    I only used those two examples to show that you cannot make a blanket statement saying that most subs of two differnet sizes will work well in one specific internal volume. Internal space makes a huge difference in how a sub sounds. While the 10" Alpine Type-R will sound great in 1 cubic foot of space, the 12" Alpine Type-R will require at least 1.2 cubic feet. Like I said before, most manufacturers spec MUCH too small of a box simply for convenience purposes; not because the sub will actually sound good in that size. Most people wouldn't want to buy a 1.5.2.0 cubic foot box for a single 12" sub.

    I'm not trying to make your job more difficult here, so don't take this the wrong way. In fact, I offer to model subs for people for free, so if you want me to model any particular sub in 1 cubic foot of space to tell you if it will sound good or not, I'd be more than happy to do so. However, I don't like seeing people spend their hard earned money on a sub that isn't suitable for a given box when they could have picked a sub that actually worked well to begin with.
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  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian v View Post
    Will a duel coil 8 inch by polk give any more sound quality ,or perform with out the back wave distortion?
    Have you built any down firing enclosures ? Experiment/
    Who are you asking?

    If you're asking, no subwoofer is immune to back wave distortion. Here's the concept behind it.

    A subwoofer produces sound waves from the front of the cone in addition to the back. What you end up with is two waves that are completely out of phase with each other. If you were to play a subwoofer at low frequencies in free air, the two waves would cancel themselves out and you would not hear any bass. Inside the box, most bass sound waves will simply act as pressure on the box as the waves are far too large, but harmonic frequencies played by the subwoofer will produce sound that will bounce off of the inner walls of the enclosure and hit the cone again. The end result will be a sound wave hitting the cone, thus producing a sound out of the front of the cone that was not signaled by the amplifier. Any time a speaker creates a sound that is not directly signaled by the amplifier, it is considered distortion.

    If you have sound absorption material inside a box, it helps absorb those rear waves to reduce the amplitude of this distortion.

    I have not built down firing enclosures for car audio as I have not experienced positive results in car audio. I have experimented with other subwoofers and discovered that the best compromise of output and practicality when using a rectangular box will come with placing the sub(s) as close to the back seats as possible, facing the rear of the car. Custom enclosures such as the one billseast is offering produce great results due to boundary loading.
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    There's some good info being shared here but it's important to note that some folks are going to go the path of least resistance and for them this may be a a great solution. Especially if they want a small box that is out of the way and occupies as little space as possible in the trunk. Sure there will probably be a sacrifice in SQ or db level, but that is the sacrifice that gets made when you start looking for compact ways to hide what often times takes up a larger amount of space when done to proper (or exact) specifications. I think the factor that will offer the greatest divider for some will be the price point for this solution. I know what I would be willing to pay for convenience but I also know what I would be willing to pay for quality. He'll just have to account for the fact that if it isn't going to be tolerable (in terms of internal volume) then anyone could go find a prefabbed single sub box (yeah still junk) from most brick and mortars for around 20 - 30 bucks and it would serve as a basic platform to amplify bass with similar qualities.

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpcraft View Post
    There's some good info being shared here but it's important to note that some folks are going to go the path of least resistance and for them this may be a a great solution. Especially if they want a small box that is out of the way and occupies as little space as possible in the trunk. Sure there will probably be a sacrifice in SQ or db level, but that is the sacrifice that gets made when you start looking for compact ways to hide what often times takes up a larger amount of space when done to proper (or exact) specifications. I think the factor that will offer the greatest divider for some will be the price point for this solution. I know what I would be willing to pay for convenience but I also know what I would be willing to pay for quality. He'll just have to account for the fact that if it isn't going to be tolerable (in terms of internal volume) then anyone could go find a prefabbed single sub box (yeah still junk) from most brick and mortars for around 20 - 30 bucks and it would serve as a basic platform to amplify bass with similar qualities.
    To note, I didn't say there are no subs in existence that will sound good in 1 cubic foot. I simply pointed out that the statement claiming that most subs will sound "good" in 1 cubic foot is incorrect. There are at least a dozen affordable subwoofers I can recommend that will sound great in one of his 1 cubic foot fiberglass boxes. The key is knowing which subwoofers those are.
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  10. #19
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    True indeed. I wasn't pointing out anything wrong with your facts or philosophy. We all just know some guys out there want it cheap and easy, lol..

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  11. #20
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    Now you have taught me a few things X. I knew you had good Ideas up there.
    Now if bill,has his thinking cap on he will learn a few things.
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