Shocker: Conservative Fox News Guest Tears Up Conservative Lies About Chevy Volt - Page 4

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Thread: Shocker: Conservative Fox News Guest Tears Up Conservative Lies About Chevy Volt

  1. #31
    Eugene_C is offline [OP]
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfwtxpatrick View Post
    I drove a Volt for 3 days while my Cruze was being repaired.

    I jumped at the chance to drive one for both the novelty and real world experience.

    I drive about 35 miles round trip to work. And the 1st day w/ the Volt, we made it to work and back home w/o using any gas. (It was 72 degrees that day.)

    When I plugged it in to charge (at about 6pm), it showed it would be fully charged by 6:30am.
    (10-12 hrs on 120v is the norm) (depending on temp- as you will see when you read further)

    That night, the temps dropped to the low 30's in the morning and never got above 45 in the afternoon.

    The 2nd day, the electric usage dropped from 35 miles all the way down to 16 miles just on the way to work. (temp was showing to be 38 degrees when we left the house)

    Yes, that's a usage of just 19 miles, BUT that included the stop and go traffic and the regeneration of the brake system putting power back into the battery. We got to just under 1 mile from home and the gas engine kicked on to get us the rest of the way home.

    I put the car on to charge from the time we got home (5:45pm) and it was still charging when we left the house the next morning at 7am. Only got to about 85%.

    Same drive to work on day 3 (started out at 43 degrees) and we started with 26 miles available, got to work with 11 miles available. (the braking recharged the batteries somewhat).

    On the way home, we left with 11 miles available (about 55 degrees) and by the time we went 7 miles, the engine kicked in. Now w/ the brakes regenerating the batteries, it was a back and forth thing with the mileage.

    All in all, we actually only used about 1/4 of a GALLON of gas.

    Our actual gas usage in the Cruze for 3 days would be about 3-4 gal of gas. So we would have used about $12-14 in gas.

    I figured the electric usage was in the range of about $6-7 dollars to charge the car.

    So, while there is a significant difference in the cost of these two cars, meaning purchase price and gas price, the Volt loses because of the cost of the car.

    Even with the tax rebate of $7500 for buying the volt, I could purchase a fully loaded LTZ w/ Sunroof, Navi and all the options for about $25k (msrp) and the Volt costs about $40k (msrp). So even w/ the rebate, the Volt costs another $7500 over the Cruze.

    As for Gas........if the Volt needs to be driven for an extended range and time, the ability to charge it fully for the next day of driving is severely impacted and may not be available for use the next day. So that puts it back to gas VS gas w/ the Cruze.

    Now the real world actually creates an even bigger divide when you consider these things:

    1) If purchased with payments, $25k will cost less than $40k, so that adds to the difference.

    2) Having to charge the car to advantage of the electric use basically makes it unusable for after work driving.

    3) For me, the seating is not nearly as spacious as the Cruze.

    4) There are ALOT of blindspots w/ the Volt.

    So those are some of the things I think about when looking at the Volt.

    Nice car, but I'll stick w/ my Cruze.

    If you had the 220V fast charger the car would have been fully charged by morning on all three nights. There was and maybe still is a federal credit that basically pays for the charger installation. Also, there's a way to set it to heat it up on cold mornings while it is still plugged into the grid, which reduces your heat & battery usage on morning commute. It can also be pre-cooled while it's on the grid.
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  3. #32
    Handbrake Released arsmitty86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene_C View Post
    If you had the 220V fast charger the car would have been fully charged by morning on all three nights. There was and maybe still is a federal credit that basically pays for the charger installation. Also, there's a way to set it to heat it up on cold mornings while it is still plugged into the grid, which reduces your heat & battery usage on morning commute. It can also be pre-cooled while it's on the grid.
    And batteries are still the worst idea on the planet for powering a car. Period. They're heavy, they're inefficient they offload the pollution to the Coal plants mostly so they don't help the environment and then you have the disposal of them. It's also stupid to trade one limited resource to another... Have you looked at how rare Lithium is? Until they figure out hydrogen fuel cells or cellulosic ethanol I'm not interested in giving up my gas powerplant.

  4. #33
    2nd Gear ChevyMgr's Avatar
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    I would like to learn more about this new technology of getting power from coal without burning it. Seems like it would be a step in the right direction. And I agree batteries are not the long run answer.
    Some things I know, some things I don't
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  6. #34
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    Popular Mechanics had an article on the Chevy Volt operating in the extended range, or in other words, the batteries were dead. Could only average 36 mpg on the highway and 32 mpg in the city.

    Electricity has been been an energy source, its a medium for converting one source of energy to another more convenient form. A storage battery is the same thing with losses from converting electrical energy to chemical energy and back again with plenty of losses in between.

    If I go back to the 60's in Central Wisconsin, 100% of our energy was hydro generated, and was paying around 1.25 cents per KW hour, electrical resistant heat became very popular back then. But with the population expansion, not enough hydro electricity to go around. with nuclear plant closings, unsafe, natural gas generation has become popular to meet EPA emission requirements. So now the cost is over 12 cents per KWH.

    Or an increase of 960%! I like to compare this with the minimum wage increase over the same time period, $2.25 per hour to $7.25 per hour for only a increase of 322%, so the standard of living has gone to **** decreasing down to 33% of what it was.

    In reality, its far worse than that 33% because people today earning minimum wage get a nice homestead credit, food stamps, energy assistance, and health care cost assistance, while I was forced to fight against socialism we sure have that today in this country People on minimum could survive on that back then, cannot today. Even get a child credit on their federal income taxes.

    About the only intelligent thing I have heard from the Obama administration is to push natural gas for our vehicles. That we have a plentiful domestic supply of. While he stated a hundred year supply, heard from other sources we have 4,000 year supply, and if coupled to methane, another far cleaner burning fuel, that can go up to a 12,000 year supply. Perhaps in this time we can develop nuclear fusion. Very little is spend on this form of energy.

    Energy is not the problem, have tons of it, politics is the problem, the idiots and greed we have in our leadership. Same with GM with idiots in charge, spending billions on the development of the Volt and taking the promises of a company to develop a suitable battery. If they had any brains, would have use their own resources to develop that battery first.

    Even with more brains, would have realized already going through five energy conversions to get power to the wheels. But that is the way it is, big mouth small brained idiots making key decisions. Not only in politics but in our corporations as well.

    We may talk about a democratic society, but with corporations, democracy doesn't exist at all, a pure dictatorship, Tell you how to dress, where to be, when you can use the restroom, who you can touch, and on and on. If you don't walk that very narrow path, find yourself on the street.

  7. #35
    CW_
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    I don't necessarily consider "electric cars just shift pollution to the coal power plants" a valid argument. It's true that there are a lot of dirty coal-fired power plants in the US, but the useful property of them is that coal is not the only way to make electricity, and it's a lot easier to add more pollution controls to a power plant than it is to add them to a bunch of cars that have already been sold. However, a gasoline engine will only run on gasoline (or some type of synthetic gasoline-like fuel that would probably be even more expensive). Anyhow, to me the technology's still half-baked and too expensive, which was why I bought a Cruze instead of a Volt. Maybe by the time I'm looking for a new car again (hopefully 5-6 years in the future or more) that will have changed.
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  8. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickD View Post
    Popular Mechanics had an article on the Chevy Volt operating in the extended range, or in other words, the batteries were dead. Could only average 36 mpg on the highway and 32 mpg in the city.
    According to fueleconomy.gov the average 2013 vehicle gets 23mpg, so 36mpg is still pretty respectable. Driving the Volt with no change can be done but is not how its intended to be used.

    The 2013 battery's have 38mile range, so say I drive 30miles to work(round trip 60) I only need the gas engine for part of my drive home(22miles of 60). At 36mpg that 60miles would normally burn 1.6gallons a day, with the battery that is cut to just 0.6 gallons. MPG equivalent 100MPG. I also save 30gallons of fuel every month, at $3.80 that's $114 multiply by 12months that's $1368 in fuel savings every year or $6,840 in 5years.

    Now imaging if I only drive 15miles to work & can charge daily I now no longer need to buy fuel. The MPG equivalent could easily be 200MPG or more. Here is an example: 200mpg after 5,000 miles with our Chevy Volt! | Its a Chevy Volt!

    The Volt is put down for the limited battery range but if one knows how to utilize it properly the sky is the limit for how much you can save. I spent $2,200 in fuel last year, I would love to be able to get some of that back!

  9. #37
    Aesop

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    A small coal fired engine can be designed to meet the same emission requirements as the large plants. But the whole idea is to build these plants out in the sticks, to move those emissions someplace else. Surprised we are not building coal fired plants in China or Mexico, whole idea is not to find solutions, but to move these polluting emissions someplace else.

    If innovation is the subject of this topic, the likes of the Wright's, Edison, Ford, Tesla, etc. would get nowhere today, Restrictions everywhere, if you have worked as a design engineer, spend twice the time reading regulations

    If you do come up an innovative idea, need billions of dollars and a host of attorney's to even get that idea off the ground. A lot of great ideas were developed since our energy crisis, but all killed by regulations. So here we are some odd 40 years later with the same old crap.
    Last edited by NickD; 03-29-2013 at 09:12 AM.

  10. #38
    Handbrake Released arsmitty86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CW_ View Post
    I don't necessarily consider "electric cars just shift pollution to the coal power plants" a valid argument. It's true that there are a lot of dirty coal-fired power plants in the US, but the useful property of them is that coal is not the only way to make electricity, and it's a lot easier to add more pollution controls to a power plant than it is to add them to a bunch of cars that have already been sold. However, a gasoline engine will only run on gasoline (or some type of synthetic gasoline-like fuel that would probably be even more expensive). Anyhow, to me the technology's still half-baked and too expensive, which was why I bought a Cruze instead of a Volt. Maybe by the time I'm looking for a new car again (hopefully 5-6 years in the future or more) that will have changed.
    But it does. The power we create via power plants coal or not is not overly abundant. We have a crippled and crumpling electrical infrastructure already and almost all of that power is generated by either coal (42%) or natural gas (25%). If we were already all nuclear (we're only 19%) that way on Thorium reactors batteries might not be a bad idea. Coal has many other side effects that most folks have the priviledge of not seeing because they don't live in the hills of WV some where. The ash is radioactive (yes most people don't know that), it encourages mining companies to come in and strip mine and destroy peoples homes and drop coal fragments and other pollution behind. They leave huge pools of "slurry" behind cheap levies that can break and ruin entire areas. Their destruction allows the erosion of hill sides and other problems. The whole point of all of this? Why on earth would we off load the problem onto a grid that would need more coal to keep up with the demands? Does it cost as much to operate as a gas engine? No, it's about 2/3's as much per mile as Snopes criticism of the gentlemen that blasts it on fox news shows. snopes.com: Cost to Operate the Chevy Volt Is it even close to being a good answer for only a 4c per mile savings? Well by my calculations it would save me (a heavy distance driver) 1100 dollars a year in gas cost to shift it to my power grid. That said, the payment being more then double what my cruze payment is sort of makes it a money pit. The cost goes somewhere. Cellulosic ethanol is clean, it's made by trash parts of food and plants that we need to get rid of anyway (lawn clippings etc). It doesn't require subsidies, and it doesn't require redesigning the entire gasoline storage and distribution network we already have in place. I guess my whole point is, figuring out what else we can burn, and burn cleaner, and cheaper is a way better solution then trying to completely re-invent the wheel. At least until some major breakthroughs are made in the hydrogen arena.

  11. #39
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    A scooter gets better MPG than a car but we all switched from cars to scooters the pollution in this country would skyrocket. This is the same basic principal as people switching from gas powered cars to electric ones. One pollution source(a coal power plant) that is highly EPA regulated vs 100,000's of thousands of smaller pollution sources.

    There is no emission testing in Wisconsin(except a few county's by lake Michigan) & no yearly auto safety inspections. This means there's thousands of cars driving around with check engine lights lit for months dumping even dirtier emissions into the environment.

  12. #40
    Handbrake Released arsmitty86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spacedout View Post
    highly EPA regulated
    sigh...

    I give up.

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