Major stereo upgrade (long post). - Page 2
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Thread: Major stereo upgrade (long post).

  1. #11
    GraySkies is offline [OP]
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    Quote Originally Posted by firehawk618 View Post
    I cannot edit my past posts. When I reference the LIN I actually meant MOST bus lines. Most = Media Oriented Systems Transport.

    in other words it's a data link from the "head unit" to the amp
    Would be nice if they had a toslink port on those or something. Many amps and DSPs will take direct digital data, as long as it's a format they can read. GM would really help themselves (reputation/customer loyalty) I think, if they thought a little more about the downstream user...
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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraySkies View Post
    Would be nice if they had a toslink port on those or something. Many amps and DSPs will take direct digital data, as long as it's a format they can read. GM would really help themselves (reputation/customer loyalty) I think, if they thought a little more about the downstream user...
    Agreed 100%. Give it time. Someone will create an interface that will extract the digital data and give outputs for audio and even a remote amp turn on signal.

    GM and other manufacturers are using MOST for their audio systems and it's not going away.

    From an engineering and manufacturing perspective it does make sense to use it. Much less wiring and virtually no chance of ingress into the system that would compromise sound quality.
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  4. #13
    GraySkies is offline [OP]
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    Quote Originally Posted by firehawk618 View Post
    Agreed 100%. Give it time. Someone will create an interface that will extract the digital data and give outputs for audio and even a remote amp turn on signal.

    GM and other manufacturers are using MOST for their audio systems and it's not going away.

    From an engineering and manufacturing perspective it does make sense to use it. Much less wiring and virtually no chance of ingress into the system that would compromise sound quality.
    I suspect that much less wiring was the main driving factor. If pure audio quality was more of a factor, the Bose system would sound better than it does. The Bose system I had in my Audi A4 sounded significantly better than the Bose system in the Cruze I had as a loaner.

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  6. #14
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    Yes, all "Bose" car sound is not created equal. The Bose in my S420 is better than in my E320 is better than my ML350, and the ML is much better than the Cruze.

    The Bose audio quality tracks with the MSRP of the cars, and with the age of the cars (the S420 is 19 years older than the Cruze).

    I haven't experienced it, but the original GM Bose system in the C4 Corvette was supposed to be very good for its era.
    Last edited by Taxman; 07-20-2018 at 08:00 PM.
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  7. #15
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    Cost savings no doubt is the motivator. It always is it seems like.

    FWIW the system in the hatch is pretty damned good. I was impressed with the system in my old 2010 CTSV and would put this a close second.
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  8. #16
    GraySkies is offline [OP]
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    Have a little time tonight, and thought I would post a little bit about how I ran the Speedwire through the console. This turned out to be one of the easiest parts of this whole operation. The side panel of the console was already removed, and the rear panel (which is also just held on by a few clips) is the only other panel that needs to be removed.

    So... coming down from the back of the head unit, as I showed previously, the cable goes down the passenger side of the console. Take a look at the circle in the photo. The gray object in the circle is the tip of a tool that I have inserted through the back of the console and down to the side area:
    DSCN3875 (2).jpg

    It's a "grabber" tool like this:
    DSCN3873.jpg

    You push the red knob, and four little prongs stick out the end. It's intended for retrieving small objects from inaccessible places:
    DSCN3874.jpg

    Having popped off the back panel of the console, I simply inserted this tool from the back and down towards the passenger side, and the location shown in the photo in the red circle is where it came out. With this tool, I grabbed the end of the Speedwire with the four prongs, and pulled it up and out the back of the console, feeding the whole length through. This is the back of the console:
    DSCN3876.jpg

    You can see in the photo, that the carpet only extends a short way under the back cover of the console. There is a fairly large cutout area in the carpet under there, and it's super easy to feed the cable under the carpet on top of the center tunnel, and pop up in the area under the back seat. No carpet removal required!

    Once you are that far, you can run the cable along the face of the footwell area for the back seat, and up the side into the area behind the side panel in the trunk:
    DSCN3877.jpg

    It's possible to run many wires this way, if you choose to. I chose to run up the sides with the speaker wires, rather than coming back through this way, but it's one of the available options. Also a good option if you choose to run a wired remote for your DSP, or for the bass boost on your amp, if equipped. You can then place the remote inside the armrest compartment in the console. Obviously power is not an issue in these cars if your electronics are in the trunk, since the battery is there also. If you are putting the amp and/or DSP under the seats, though, running power up there this way is also an option.

    Next time, I'll start showing how I rigged up a mounting board for my amp and DSP in the trunk.

    Thanks for reading!
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    Last edited by GraySkies; 07-22-2018 at 01:19 AM.
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  9. #17
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    I am trying to follow how you wired back to the speakers.
    If you tapped into the signal off the head unit and ran to the DSP, how did you then get your new signal back to the speakers after the DSP and amp?

    I am getting ready to start my sons build and was planning on running speed wire front to back and another speed wire back to front. My plan was to cut the speaker wire after the head unit, splice in the speed wire to get my signal to my DSP, go DSP to my different amps, then from the amp use the other speed wire and run back to the harness that I cut the wires and tap back into them to feed the speakers. Then just replace the speakers in the doors and dash.

    Would love to hear your thoughts or how you achieved getting your signal back to the speakers.

    Thanks
    Peter

  10. #18
    GraySkies is offline [OP]
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pdevore View Post
    I am trying to follow how you wired back to the speakers.
    If you tapped into the signal off the head unit and ran to the DSP, how did you then get your new signal back to the speakers after the DSP and amp?

    I am getting ready to start my sons build and was planning on running speed wire front to back and another speed wire back to front. My plan was to cut the speaker wire after the head unit, splice in the speed wire to get my signal to my DSP, go DSP to my different amps, then from the amp use the other speed wire and run back to the harness that I cut the wires and tap back into them to feed the speakers. Then just replace the speakers in the doors and dash.

    Would love to hear your thoughts or how you achieved getting your signal back to the speakers.

    Thanks
    Peter
    Hi Peter.

    I am doing this build thread in installments, as I have time. I have not posted about the running of the speaker wires yet.

    I would NOT recommend using the Speedwire to run the speaker wires. It is 24 ga. wire, and this is barely big enough for the stock signal. If you try to push any power through wire that small, the resistance will be too great. Even if you don't melt the wire, you will get all kinds of wonky results with the frequency response, because the excessive resistance will effect different frequencies to differing degrees.

    I am only pushing 45 watts to the door speakers, but I ran my speaker wires in 14 ga. These go from the amp, back up the sides of the car to the speakers, and I have 10 ga going to the sub in the trunk. My plan was to detail this further along in the build thread.

    I ran the speaker wires under the side door sill trims, and went through an available gap in the factory Molex connectors and down into the doors. I can jump ahead and post this part of the build next, if it would be helpful to you. I probably won't have time until late Thursday evening, or possibly Friday morning, though. Let me know if that would be helpful, and I will plan on that.
    Last edited by GraySkies; 07-26-2018 at 01:59 AM.

  11. #19
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    No need to change your schedule for me. Inunderstand what you are doing. Sorry for rushing you. I am running Metra’s version of the speed wire and that’s in 18g but as you mentioned it’s still not enough to support pushing 100w per channel back up to the new speakers and honestly until you mentioned it I hadn’t thought about the factory wiring and it not being able to support the amplified signal.
    I will plan on just the speed wire back and then running new from the back forward to each speaker. (I was trying to save time in the future when I was able to install the door speakers.
    Did you solder your splices or use connectors. It looks like they are soldered with as small as the heat shrink is.

    Thanks

  12. #20
    GraySkies is offline [OP]
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pdevore View Post
    No need to change your schedule for me. Inunderstand what you are doing. Sorry for rushing you. I am running Metra’s version of the speed wire and that’s in 18g but as you mentioned it’s still not enough to support pushing 100w per channel back up to the new speakers and honestly until you mentioned it I hadn’t thought about the factory wiring and it not being able to support the amplified signal.
    I will plan on just the speed wire back and then running new from the back forward to each speaker. (I was trying to save time in the future when I was able to install the door speakers.
    Did you solder your splices or use connectors. It looks like they are soldered with as small as the heat shrink is.

    Thanks
    Okay. I will continue as planned. I wasn't planning to continue the thread until next week sometime, and my time is pretty limited tonight and tomorrow. I would rather wait and do a more thorough job of it if I can...

    I soldered the splices to the factory wires behind the head unit. Electrically, for the current being carried here, soldering is not really that much superior to a proper crimp connection. All the harness plugs the factory uses are crimp connections, of course, so they are quite proven if done properly. I soldered them mostly because there's not much space back there, and I was trying to make the splices the most space-efficient that I could. For the connections to the speakers in the doors, I used crimp connectors on the ends of the wires. The amp end of the speaker wires has screw terminals, of course. I did solder-tin the ends of the speaker wires that go into the screw terminals, just to make sure they got a solid electrical connection and didn't fan out in there and possibly short out. You can use ferrules on them too, rather than soldering, but it depends on the type of screw terminal whether ferrules will fit or not.

    The DSP has a harness/plug for the power and speaker input. I soldered the Speedwire wires and the power wires to the DSP harness and wrapped with Tesa tape, once again mainly to be space efficient (but also to keep it from looking like crap, since my DSP is exposed in the trunk).
    Last edited by GraySkies; 07-27-2018 at 12:43 AM.

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