Frequent regens with surging at idle - Page 9
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Thread: Frequent regens with surging at idle

  1. #81
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    Bohdi,
    To answer your most recent question, a leaking hose on the differential pressure sensor pre-DPF would result in artificially LOW DPF pressure readings, or low soot mass readings. Now these ECMs do all kinds of rationality checks and such, and it's possible it's commanding regens because it's checking to see what's going on with readings it doesn't quite "like" but are still within spec for "good" readings.

    Same goes for EGT sensors, if the exhaust temp sensors are skewed higher than actaul temps, but still in the acceptable and rational range the car can suspend the Regen that's occuring and then restarts it when it sees favorable conditions again. This can result in multiple partial regens.

    There are techs who have a better understanding and more training on diesels than others. They will have GM Master Technician Certification in Diesel Performance. This certification is NOT mandatory, and most dealerships don't have a GM Master cert'd diesel tech. You may want to ask GM customer service to direct you to a shop that has one.

    GM Master cert's are optional training. They require a tech to be fully trained in GM courses beyond the mandatory standard training, they require the tech to earn ASE certified in that area. And then beyond both standard GM and ASE certs the tech has to go to a hands on assessment course where they actually have to demonstrate their skills and knowledge in the understanding and repair of the system in question. You even get a certificate! LOL
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    Last edited by Ma v e n; 05-08-2019 at 09:08 AM.
    TDCruze and BodhiBenz1987 like this.

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  3. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by TDCruze View Post
    Did they at least offer to repair the torn pressure sensor hoses?

    This is what I find so frustrating with automotive service work these days. Granted there are few items that don't "throw a code" anymore, it seems like nobody takes a customer complaint seriously without that magic CEL. How did cars ever get fixed before the days of CEL's?

    I think it is a good idea to open a complaint and take it higher up.
    The dealer may have their hands tied with GM as far as covered warranty work, they have nothing solid to base spending further time without that "CEL".
    As in GM may not pay them for further work without "cause".
    A complaint may get some more attention and at least lets them know it is not fixed.

    Hopefully dealer #2 can figure something out!
    They did not think the hoses needed to be replaced, based on the fact they weren't leaking since there was no CEL. The more I think about that the more it bothers me in and of itself ... even if they aren't leaking, why wait until they are to replace them, when there is a visible tear? Granted it is outside the clamp as far as I can see, but it could extend further or get worse in the future. If I see a torn hose on one of my older cars I generally replace it, leaking or not.
    I dropped the car at the other dealer this morning and I can at least say they certainly listened and seem to have an interest. Whether they can do anything is another story but it's a good start and maybe between that and the call I put into Chevy something will happen.
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  4. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma v e n View Post
    Bohdi,
    To answer your most recent question, a leaking hose on the differential pressure sensor pre-DPF would result in artificially LOW DPF pressure readings, or low soot mass readings. Now these ECMs do all kinds of rationality checks and such, and it's possible it's commanding regens because it's checking to see what's going on with readings it doesn't quite "like" but are still within spec for "good" readings.

    Same goes for EGT sensors, if the exhaust temp sensors are skewed higher than actaul temps, but still in the acceptable and rational range the car can suspend the Regen that's occuring and then restarts it when it sees favorable conditions again. This can result in multiple partial regens.

    There are techs who have a better understanding and more training on diesels than others. They will have GM Master Technician Certification in Diesel Performance. This certification is NOT mandatory, and most dealerships don't have a GM Master cert'd diesel tech. You may want to ask GM customer service to direct you to a shop that has one.

    GM Master cert's are optional training. They require a tech to be fully trained in GM courses beyond the mandatory standard training, they require the tech to earn ASE certified in that area. And then beyond both standard GM and ASE certs the tech has to go to a hands on assessment course where they actually have to demonstrate their skills and knowledge in the understanding and repair of the system in question. You even get a certificate! LOL
    Thanks for the info on the pressure differential. That's kind of what I was thinking so maybe the hose is not doing anything (or both are leaking and the bottom one is "winning" so to say. That's helpful to know about the certified techs. I kind of assumed every dealer would have one with the amount of trucks they handle. If this dealer can't get anywhere, maybe that is the answer, having GM direct me to a place that has a master certified diesel tech. The dealer it is at now mentioned having their diesel tech look at it, but did not specify what certification they have.
    2018 Chevy Cruze 1.6T diesel sedan, 6-speed manual, Satin Steel Metallic on Kalahari/Jet Black leather
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  6. #84
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    So here's the latest: Dealer today sounded like they were going to help, or try, or that they believed me, which felt hopeful. But they called at the end of the day saying they had pulled the data from the car and here's the bomb they dropped on me: according to the car's data history, it has completed 13 regens lifetime. LIFETIME. I've literally watched that many with my own two eyes in the last 2,000 miles. The soot level goes to 100, the exhaust temps go to 1200 and stay there while the soot levels go from 100 to somewhere between 4 and 2. It lasts about 10 minutes. Then the soot levels climbs to 100 again over a couple days, repeat. If that isn't a regeneration, what is it? They couldn't answer that question, of course, because it doesn't matter because their numbers are the numbers and nothing else matters.
    So either what I am witnessing is incomplete or phantom regenerations of some sort, or the computer hasn't recording any of them. My guess would be the latter. He couldn't tell me when the last regeneration was, or distance since last. I would not be surprised if it was September according to his data. The soot level reading (based on differential pressure) he got was exactly what mine is (43%) and he had another number that was "estimated soot level based on other data" of some sort that was 13%, but never mind that massive disparity, apparently nothing worth looking into. Anyway, they turfed me back to the first dealer, who already said they can't do anything else. He said the first dealer has a top-rated certified diesel tech. I really don't want to go back to a dealership that has so far put the wrong oil in my car and sent me home with a massive exhaust leak. I am still awaiting my call back from GM but the service manager today told me they already went through GM and they won't do anything because the data he pulled today is the final word, my car has only done 13 lifetime regens and it is working fine.
    An interesting thing to note, which I don't know if I mentioned before, is that when my car does a regen, the PID that tells you status shows the numbers 6 while it's warming up and 7 while its regening. The options listed on the Scangauge page are numbers 1 through 5. I thought this was an SG glitch but I'm guessing it's the car's glitch now. No one will listen to any of this though; they don't care, and if they do their hands are tied by those who don't care. Now on top of the regen issue I have to wonder what else is not working ... maybe there are no codes because the computer is glitched out?
    Last edited by BodhiBenz1987; 05-09-2019 at 03:07 PM.
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  7. #85
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    Well that sucks.

    I don't know if/how the Regen counter acknowledges partial regens, I've never tried to make a Regen abort and see if the counter incremented.

    The 2nd shop turning you away is kinda shady. I'm assuming you're being calm and respectful, etc when you're dealing with this new shop so I don't fully understand why they would bounce you. It sounds like they dont really believe your issue.

    There used to a tool we used called a VDR, that customers could take home and they would trigger it when their problem was occuring. It really sucks that it doesn't work on the gen2 Cruze....The scan tool is how we do that now....

    How often does your car regen? Do you know it's schedule or is it random? Honestly most techs, including myself don't like going on long road tests with customers, or even long road tests without them, but it sounds like you need to have the car perform a Regen(partial or otherwise) while the GM scan tool is hooked up. Ideally have them witness multiple regens if they are occurring close enough at this time.
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  8. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma v e n View Post
    Well that sucks.

    I don't know if/how the Regen counter acknowledges partial regens, I've never tried to make a Regen abort and see if the counter incremented.

    The 2nd shop turning you away is kinda shady. I'm assuming you're being calm and respectful, etc when you're dealing with this new shop so I don't fully understand why they would bounce you. It sounds like they dont really believe your issue.

    There used to a tool we used called a VDR, that customers could take home and they would trigger it when their problem was occuring. It really sucks that it doesn't work on the gen2 Cruze....The scan tool is how we do that now....

    How often does your car regen? Do you know it's schedule or is it random? Honestly most techs, including myself don't like going on long road tests with customers, or even long road tests without them, but it sounds like you need to have the car perform a Regen(partial or otherwise) while the GM scan tool is hooked up. Ideally have them witness multiple regens if they are occurring close enough at this time.
    When I went to pick up the car they did take the time to talk to me longer, both the server manager and the head service manager, and go over the data. They did actually acknowledge that there could be something wrong with the computer or data recording, or that the regens could be partial or so forth, the things I mentioned above. So at least I don't feel like I was just being dumped back on the other dealer or that they were just turning me away. I guess they felt it would make more sense for me to stay with the dealer I had been working with, since neither could figure anything out. They did not mention anything like a GM scan tool. That is part of the issue, that they can't drive it for 100s of miles and see what I am talking about (which I can understand but it is frustrating). They said there is not really anything they can do but if keep track of what I am seeing and keep a log I can bring it back after another 3 or 4 regens (or what I think are regens) and see if their data changes. They said everything else on the car looks perfect, which is encouraging but doesn't make me less worried about whatever is going on wrong. They did suggest I try always using Shell, BP, or Exxon and see if that improves. I use Wawa and Royal Farms fuels. Again though I'm suspecting it is not an actually soot issue at this point but a data one.
    In the meantime I talked to someone from GM who called me back and he was very polite but seemed stumped too. He is putting me in touch with someone at the first dealer in charge of customer satisfaction and said maybe they can arrange an extended test drive. I would think I could bring it in when I see it gets to 95% soot or so and they would not need to take it long to see a regen take place.
    So now I am kind of floating between the two dealers but in each case I just have to keep driving it. I do get their dilemma. It just sucks for me.
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  9. #87
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    While it's "probably" not the cause I totally concur with their recommendations to stop using Wawa fuel.

    Using fuel from a name brand fuel supplier(not a name brand dairy.. 😉 ) preferably a high volume station is best. If you happen to have Costco near you, see if they are a TopTier diesel station.
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  10. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma v e n View Post
    While it's "probably" not the cause I totally concur with their recommendations to stop using Wawa fuel.

    Using fuel from a name brand fuel supplier(not a name brand dairy.. 😉 ) preferably a high volume station is best. If you happen to have Costco near you, see if they are a TopTier diesel station.
    The Costco near me doesn't have fuel, but I have a Shell fairly close to me. I am not super concerned about price given my mpg so if it's more expensive that's fine. I had mainly used the others for consistency since they are right on my route, and since they are high-volume diesel sellers it didn't really occur to me they would potentially have that bad fuel. I have used them since the car was new and didn't see issues then, but, I wan't tracking closely then, and could be either a cumulative thing or lower fuel quality becoming more prominent in winter fuels. Either way it's easy enough for me to switch to the name brand and stick with it and it sounds like I should do that regardless.
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