Chevrolet Cruze Forums banner
1 - 20 of 32 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,207 Posts
absolutely no way. epa is now holding their current crazy high emissions standards for diesel cars and im sure they wont loosen up. im not familiar with the new 1.6 oil burner so i cannot reliably comment on its reliability
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
246 Posts
absolutely no way. epa is now holding their current crazy high emissions standards for diesel cars and im sure they wont loosen up. im not familiar with the new 1.6 oil burner so i cannot reliably comment on its reliability
The 1.6 has been out in EU for quite some time, but EU emissions standards on diesel are not near as stringent as ours ( partially due to our trucks as well) . I can't imagine they've done away with urea injection systems. Even Mazda 6 with their diesel had to go back to drawing board because of emissions and performance issues.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,535 Posts
I wonder if the new diesel will have a more reliable/less complicated emissions system.
More reliable: Very likely......the Cruze diesel had some growing pains not unlike any other new system.
Worked fine on a test stand but in the hands of the public, with all the driving variables, some weaknesses were uncovered.
The Duramax, which had been essentially issue free in its earlier versions, went through similar growing pains when the newest emission systems were applied.
Within 3 years though, the system has become close to trouble free.......I expect similar results from the newest Cruze diesel.

Complicated: Likely more complicated in function but likely with a lower part count......some of the systems currently used have a degree of redundancy......one of those things that happens as the manufacturer learns, through warranty tracking, how to improve.

Between the current Duramax, the baby Duramax, and the knowledge gained from the current Cruze the odds are reliability will soon be a non issue.

Rob
 

·
Premium Member
2014 Cruze Diesel, 2007 Cobalt, 1981 Camaro Z28, 2017 Volt
Joined
·
5,911 Posts
For 2018, the EU is implementing more stringent emissions standards, very similar to what we require here in the US. This will require DEF for diesels there now as well, so manufacturers should be able to reduce overall costs, as the volumes will be higher now, since they'll sell in both markets.
 
  • Like
Reactions: obermd

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,652 Posts
I agree with Robby. I think they will apply "lessons learned" from our current Cruze diesels to the new ones. From reading every diesel post on this forum over the past 2.5 years, one thing that stands out to me is that when our cars go in for warranty service, the engineers either get involved or at the very least gather data about what has gone wrong. That being said, my emissions system as a whole has been relatively trouble free. If they make the sensors better able to cope with different driving styles and mainly eliminate the issue with the 30 second window gearing up for a regen, it should be reliable across the board.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
25,596 Posts
I suspect the learning curve with the 2014 and 2015 CTD is why we didn't see a 2016 CTD (Legacy or otherwise).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
246 Posts
Taking reliability out of the equation for a moment,the real driving force behind the success of these vehicles is going to be economic. They can tout the new 1.6 all they want, but if the current and new model(s) do not sell, then it's largely irrelevant how good or reliable they really are. I just read today that with tax incentives in Northern CO, one can get a new Leaf for about $10K. What does that tell us? That you can get a Leaf for cheap? No, it indicates that the Leaf is a hard sell and they have to resort to incentives and government support to sell it. The diesels get no such support other than raising the avg. CAFE for GM. I've also read recently that the take rate for the Cruze CTD is now less than 2% and this can't bode well for the future. It was expected to be 10% or more, but it's been about 9500 cars + or - a few per year. That's surely not enough economic motivation to stick with the vehicle. Remember, it's all about the $$ ultimately.

A recent search showed there's over 400 2015 Cruze diesels still sitting on dealers lots countrywide. Sure , it's far fewer than the Gas models available, but it still shows that there's not a whole lot of demand for the car. This will affect future updates and availability.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,207 Posts
A big solution would be to simply have the DIC say Regen starting in 30 seconds, if you need to turn the car off it stays running until its safe for it to turn its self off as to not damage or short stop a regen. like the Mercedes diesel big rigs, they stay running if Regen or if you where driving crazy and the turbo needs to spool down. i would not mind the cruze staying running for 1 minute on its own to prevent any regen issue, and locks like as if it was turned off
 
  • Like
Reactions: diesel

·
Registered
Joined
·
246 Posts
I suspect the learning curve with the 2014 and 2015 CTD is why we didn't see a 2016 CTD (Legacy or otherwise).

I think GM is also reevaluating the " take rate" as well and seeing if it's worth it. You know the new car is done, now what's the holdup?
 

·
Premium Member
2014 Cruze Diesel, 2007 Cobalt, 1981 Camaro Z28, 2017 Volt
Joined
·
5,911 Posts
I just hope they offer the new one in multiple trims, instead of just one. While I personally would option it the same way as our 2014 came, others don't necessarily want to pay for leather. No extra cost on their part to offer the engine on different trim levels, wasn't quite sure why they did that one on the 14s and 15s.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
253 Posts
I got the feeling that the 2014-2015 CTD owner's were guinea pigs. As in GM wanted to test viability of the CTD idea. My car has been in twice for warranty service. The dealer got it fixed on the second try, and I think they received some help from the GM mothership after Patsy contacted me on this board. The second repair involved a ECM reflash and much longer diagnostic time & test drive. The first repair they slapped a sensor in and cleared the code. Second time after GM contacted them they did the repair correctly. A long way to say, that GM is working to improve the diesel technology, and the dealers don't see enough of these cars on a regular basis(which may be a good thing) to really gain a good knowledge base of experience to troubleshoot and repair. I think GM will continue to work to improve the emissions technology, especially after the VW debacle. I wonder a bit, since there is a large amount of German technology in the CTD, including a lot of Bosch parts, if Bosch has been on the level with GM.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
246 Posts
I got the feeling that the 2014-2015 CTD owner's were guinea pigs. As in GM wanted to test viability of the CTD idea. My car has been in twice for warranty service. The dealer got it fixed on the second try, and I think they received some help from the GM mothership after Patsy contacted me on this board. The second repair involved a ECM reflash and much longer diagnostic time & test drive. The first repair they slapped a sensor in and cleared the code. Second time after GM contacted them they did the repair correctly. A long way to say, that GM is working to improve the diesel technology, and the dealers don't see enough of these cars on a regular basis(which may be a good thing) to really gain a good knowledge base of experience to troubleshoot and repair. I think GM will continue to work to improve the emissions technology, especially after the VW debacle. I wonder a bit, since there is a large amount of German technology in the CTD, including a lot of Bosch parts, if Bosch has been on the level with GM.

Isnt the large majority of the engine Italian, as in Turin Italy??? I know there's lots of German sourced parts and GM claims it's a German engine, but this engine was originally sourced many years ago with an agreement from an Italian manufacturer of these engines.

Regardless of whether they are Guinea pigs, except for truck owners and VW aficionados , the take rate will ultimately define the success of the new Cruze CTD 1.6. A salesman at a dealer put it best when he stayed that people love the concept of a car getting 50+ mpg, but diesels scare them and they don't want to pay for them. As I went to the dealer yesterday, I passed a station selling regular at 1.58 a gallon, a far cry from the 2.38 he was asking for Tier 1 diesel. On a 15 gallon fill up, that's $12 bucks. That too is what is going to hold up sale of any diesel product.
 

·
Premium Member
2014 Cruze Diesel, 2007 Cobalt, 1981 Camaro Z28, 2017 Volt
Joined
·
5,911 Posts
The 2.0L LUZ is a VM Motori engine. GM used to own a 50% stake in the company, along with Fiat who owned 50%. During the bankruptcy, GM sold their 50% share to Fiat, who now wholly owns the company. GM did do development work on this engine, so it's not like it's a Fiat engine, as VM is still it's own company. Similarly - the 3.0L EcoDiesel (also VM) in the RAMs is based off work GM did on a 2.9L V6 diesel that was actually intended for the CTS.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,207 Posts
i dont thinmk americans are scared of diesels, esspecially my generation. we did not see the soot spewing mercs back in the day. what may detur young american diesel buyers is a laque of push from dealers and just not knowing there is a VW alternative
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
246 Posts
i dont thinmk americans are scared of diesels, esspecially my generation. we did not see the soot spewing mercs back in the day. what may detur young american diesel buyers is a laque of push from dealers and just not knowing there is a VW alternative
Yes they are IMHO. Unless you're a trucker or a truck guy, its a whole new world to own a diesel, from maintenance & driveability to fueling and AdBlue fill ups. Its the fear of the "unknown" of owning one that scares people. OH, and that "stinky" diesel fuel all over my hands she said as she filled it up.

Dealer sales people don't generally push them because they too don't understand them nor how they work. PLUS there's a whole lot more $$ to be made on that $60 K pickup than a $25 K Cruze.

Yes, you guys didn't see the awful GM diesels from 35 years ago nor the infamous Caddy V8/6/4 that my dad bought new and promptly took back a few days later because he thought the trans was falling out and it was really the engine alternating between cylinders.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,207 Posts
I have noticed that all diesel pumps are always wet and oily. well some one considering a diesel cruze wont be in the budget for a 2500HD. everyone that asks about my car always says "really Chevy makes a diesel? i always thought only Vw did" maintain is easier on the diesel then the gas. besides the occasional fuel filter drain and swap there is nothing hard about it, the urea add is simple and easy to do and you hardly ever do it

GM has a corvette sales school they should have a diesel sales school including the Colorado and cruze
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
246 Posts
I have noticed that all diesel pumps are always wet and oily. well some one considering a diesel cruze wont be in the budget for a 2500HD. everyone that asks about my car always says "really Chevy makes a diesel? i always thought only Vw did" maintain is easier on the diesel then the gas. besides the occasional fuel filter drain and swap there is nothing hard about it, the urea add is simple and easy to do and you hardly ever do it

GM has a corvette sales school they should have a diesel sales school including the Colorado and cruze
There's a whole lot more $$ being made on the sales of Vettes, their halo car, than being made on the Cruze line or Cruze diesel. Thus no diesel school.

About the fuel filter drain and urea add, they don't even want to do that. .......Just put gas (or diesel) in it and go. Let the lil light tell me when to get an oil change or if I have to put air in the tires. Its really how simple they want it. That's why many see the CTD as too much work.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,207 Posts
ok yes the corvett makes more money on each vett but you do realize the money is very much there in high volume sales. if GM is serious about breaking in the diesel market then they have to be proactive and train for it....

About the fuel filter drain and urea add, they don't even want to do that. .......Just put gas (or diesel) in it and go
quite a few stations down here have DEF pumps that are just like pumping diesel so just as easy. yes the average consumer is lazy and i agree, but new VW owners will already be accustomed to the different pace maintenance and if they want to get a new foot hold on diesel then they need to gear the sales floor for it. instead of pushing the ltz cruze offer the diesel. gets better mpg has way more courage when you step on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
253 Posts
Isnt the large majority of the engine Italian, as in Turin Italy??? I know there's lots of German sourced parts and GM claims it's a German engine, but this engine was originally sourced many years ago with an agreement from an Italian manufacturer of these engines.

Regardless of whether they are Guinea pigs, except for truck owners and VW aficionados , the take rate will ultimately define the success of the new Cruze CTD 1.6. A salesman at a dealer put it best when he stayed that people love the concept of a car getting 50+ mpg, but diesels scare them and they don't want to pay for them. As I went to the dealer yesterday, I passed a station selling regular at 1.58 a gallon, a far cry from the 2.38 he was asking for Tier 1 diesel. On a 15 gallon fill up, that's $12 bucks. That too is what is going to hold up sale of any diesel product.
Agree that it was developed in Turin, Italy and manufactured in Germany. But a fair amount of the parts under the hood are sourced in Germany. I wonder if the ECU is Bosch or the programming came from Bosch. The Tech 2 tools are manufactured by a Bosch subsidiary company. So it is not a great leap to wonder if Bosch is selling GM engine control software. If they are, is it similar to the VW software? So if GM wanted to cut save development time, they could shop for a supplier of engine control software just like they shopped for the Aisin transmission. Again, I'm just wondering about it. That being said GM did install the pretty complex DEF system, so I have a little confidence the car does not cheat.

Agree on the price of the diesel compared to gas. I filled up last night and diesel was $2.17/gallon. 87 gas was $1.97. What appealed to me on the diesel was the MPG as well as the power of the 2.0L TD. IMHO it is smoother, has more power, and is much more enjoyable to drive than a gasser.
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top