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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
A new code showed up as P24A5 "Exhaust Gas Recirculation Cooler Bypass Control Valve Stuck." This time it runs horribly while in limp mode with smoke and no power. Before when in limp mode it ran as normal and accelerated right up to the speed limited by 2nd gear. Now it runs horribly also. Im guessing thats the line I moved to get to the Camshaft sensor coming off a valve on the intake hose before the turbo. Yay. The plot thickens.

I found the crankshaft position sensor underneath the starter but dang if I can reach it well. I just drove it home to find a mirror before I switch that.
 

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A new code showed up as P24A5 "Exhaust Gas Recirculation Cooler Bypass Control Valve Stuck." This time it runs horribly while in limp mode with smoke and no power. Before when in limp mode it ran as normal and accelerated right up to the speed limited by 2nd gear. Now it runs horribly also. Im guessing thats the line I moved to get to the Camshaft sensor coming off a valve on the intake hose before the turbo. Yay. The plot thickens.

I found the crankshaft position sensor underneath the starter but dang if I can reach it well. I just drove it home to find a mirror before I switch that.
It’s a fault on the 5 (maybe 5.1V) power rail.

The sensors powered by said rail are the Dpf differential pressure sensor, camshaft position sensor, EGR position, EGR cooler actuator, engine oil pressure sensor, and Fuel Rail Pressure sensor.

Could be a wiring short. A internal short in one of those sensors. Or an ECM failure…. But the sensors themselves are likely fine.

I’d even call the ECM/ignition controls relay into question (#7 I think?). Not to be confused with the ignition main relay.
 

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Also if someone wants to be nice and pull up the diagram I am talking about. I don’t have access to the Cruze manual.

It’ll just be called “5V1 and Low Reference Bus” or some other similar name. Another one will be called “Power, Ground, …..” which shows the power from the fuse box to the ECM.
 

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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
Thats really good information, thanks. I can see Fuel Rail Pressure in the live data and I see 5V across the sensor outer pins and a smaller circa 5V at the middle pin that I think is a sensor output. Both observations contradict that theory.

I thought maybe my new sensor failed and then crowbarred the whole 5V rail down to short. I put in the old sensor. No change in running condition. I confirmed the 5V at the sensor. I didnt actually check 5V while the new sensor was installed but I was more concerned with restoring it to its previous condition. It was previously an intermittant limp mode on the old sensor with full engine power. It never went into limp mode while driving, only at startup. This time happened while in motion and hasnt cleared since, including a constant loss of power. It even sounds horrid as it runs.

There is a bad wheel speed sensor that is unplugged currently. There is a Exhaust Temp Sensor with a damaged wire that is unplugged. It has one bad NOX sensor. It shows a bad Fuel Temp Sensor. I dont know where that sensor physically is. Im guessing its part of the fuel pickup module in the tank. All of those are old conditions around for a couple months.
 

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Discussion Starter · #65 ·
What if the 5V rail is being pulled down by the EGR cooler valve itself? The CamPS could just be the most sensitive device on that common rail so the first to send up a red flag.

When I deleted the canister I got an EGR delete blankoff plate but did not install it. I figured if the tune never called for the EGR to open it would not float open by itself. The EGR was also brand new so well seated in its closed position without any crud to cause the valve to leak.

Is it possible for the sudden poor running condition to be caused by exhaust gas akin to an EGR valve stuck open?

How does the blank off plate help? I thought the nose of the EGR formed the seal keeping the exhaust gas in one tube from continuing down another tube. Wouldnt I need to plug the feed tube coming from the exhaust before yanking the EGR?

What the heck is an EGR cooler? It looks like an interchanger being fed antifreeze to cool the EGR valve output hot gases before they reach the engine. Maybe corrosion caused a leak that is pushing antifreeze spray into my engine? Maybe the valve getting stuck pulled down the 5V rail just enough for invalid data from another sensor?
 

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Discussion Starter · #66 ·
I pulled the ECM up from where it clips to the battery tray and what I think is a vacuum valve moved freely on the bypass cooler. It looks like the vacuum comes from a solenoid valve up further forward. I unplugged that solenoid valve. The P24A5 "stuck open" code went away replaced by a P245A code "EGR Cooler Bypass Valve Control Circuit." I'll leave that unplugged for now.

I think the ABS codes are interesting. When in limp mode it shows "invalid data" from the TCU. That could be bad info from the CamPS or contradiction from the CamPS and CrankPS. But it also shows "C0800-03 Control Module Power Circuit- Low Voltage". That seems like it could be exclusive to a bus rail voltage issue.

If I had a second Cruze Id unplug the CamPS and see if that particular ABS code was present. If not Id conclude my CamPS and invalid data codes are just symptoms to a power problem.

Id like to check voltage at the TCU next, just havent figured out how to actually do that yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
The low power and position sensor mismatch makes me wonder if the timing is off. I read the timing procedure and it seems overly complicated. Can I just align the marks and count belt teeth between them to check it didnt jump a tooth or two?
 

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What if the 5V rail is being pulled down by the EGR cooler valve itself? The CamPS could just be the most sensitive device on that common rail so the first to send up a red flag.

When I deleted the canister I got an EGR delete blankoff plate but did not install it. I figured if the tune never called for the EGR to open it would not float open by itself. The EGR was also brand new so well seated in its closed position without any crud to cause the valve to leak.

Is it possible for the sudden poor running condition to be caused by exhaust gas akin to an EGR valve stuck open?

What the heck is an EGR cooler? It looks like an interchanger being fed antifreeze to cool the EGR valve output hot gases before they reach the engine. Maybe corrosion caused a leak that is pushing antifreeze spray into my engine? Maybe the valve getting stuck pulled down the 5V rail just enough for invalid data from another sensor?
These error codes would not be caused by just general poor performance. There is definitely something electrical wrong.

The EGR cooler helps control the engine temp (especially during cold weather). It has a small intercooler effect as well for the EGR gasses. The most common EGR cooler failure just causes coolant to leak outside, but not inside the engine. I am not all that familiar with its exact mechanism.
 

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Discussion Starter · #69 ·
I pulled the TCM wiring pinout and cut the ground, "power supply," and "key switch signal." All three checked out with a good ground and full battery voltage at the other two. I havent found any loss of voltage so far.

I figure low transmission fluid could cause power loss but it wouldnt be intermittant.

The timing belt is tight but it does shake more than it should, so the tensioner is suspect. It may have jumped a notch. Its my best guess presently.

The camshaft sprocket has a very little wobble to it so that may be affecting the sensor, since it looks like a hall effect reading off the backside of the wheel. I doubt it but its something to consider. I wish I could rent an oscilloscope to see the actual sensor output. I may even buy one. I've used them a bunch in the past.
 

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Discussion Starter · #70 ·
The timing belt is tight but it does shake more than it should, so the tensioner is suspect. It may have jumped a notch. Its my best guess presently.
The car is back on the road and the dust has settled. That hunch ended up being exactly the answer. The timing belt had jumped three cogs (out of 199 total on the belt). The belt itself was in decent shape and wasn't the cause of the problem. Obviously I replaced the belt while I had it apart. The previous owner had replaced the fuel injection pump and apparently failed to tighten the tensioner. It walked free and ate a groove against the backside of the belt at the idler pulley. The shake at the camshaft sprocket went away once the new belt was on and the tensioner was properly tightened.

Initially it ran okay and just had an intermittent Camshaft sensor code along with occasional limp mode at startup. I'll assume that was with one notch off. Eventually it refused to get out of limp mode and it started to run with noticeable less power. I'll assume that was with two notches off. I replaced the Camshaft position sensor and it got out of limp mode with the new sensor. The power didn't come back but it was still driving okay. Then it suddenly went into limp mode while driving for the first time (previously it would stay out of limp mode as long as it cleared ECM/TCU handshaking at startup). The engine started to run much worse in a way that seemed like obvious poor timing complete with smokey exhaust and puke noises. I figure that was the exact moment it hopped the third notch on the loose timing belt. At that point the old Camshaft Sensor code (P0341) present at all limp mode events came back along with a new code showing a Crankshaft to Camshaft "correlation error" (P0016).

Hopefully posting that description will help someone diagnose their car sooner if they also experience a stretched or loose timing belt. I can now also say with confidence that three notches isn't enough to smack a valve against a piston. Its back up and running well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #71 · (Edited)
While the car was down I finally had time to drop the oil pan. What a frickin' pain. The damaged oil drain plug got drilled out. I had to oversize and retap the hole. Its now a 3/4-16 x 1" bolt. Thankfully I found a very narrow very thick washer at tractor supply in their thrust washer section over by PTO parts. The gasket is meant for an M22-1.5 oil plug, which is the next largest standard size if I have to retap it again in the future. The hole is elongated and the threads are fragile at the very opening but the bolt has about 5/8" worth of perfect threads down deeper. I had to get a 2" bolt and then trim it down to 1" using a bandsaw so its not tapered. I tracked down a real oil drain plug with the correct size but ditched it because it had a taper and would have damaged the threads in no time.

I installed the oil pickup conversion part I got from the ebay seller based in Poland. It is a very nice upgrade with a much better fit and function over the stupid OEM version. The old gasket was extremely brittle and just crumbled. I bet I was very close to losing oil pressure. I'm quite happy to have that upgrade finally done.

I broke the stupid oil return line on the backside of the pan. It would not have broken if they used a hex bolt. The dang Torx bolt was terribly stripped and just breaking the line was the only way to get the pan out. I ended up having to yank the starter and cutting the whole line out and replacing it with 3/8" fuel hose. The fuel hose fit the lower barb perfectly but the upper barb was bigger. I could barely get the hose on it and many a curse was uttered. I almost broke down and put a 1/2" hose to a male to male barb to step down the size. There really isn't enough clearance to add the rigid barbs with how it makes an S around the starter, however. I ended up stretching the end with needle nose long enough to get it to fit. I also added hose clamps.

The stripped torx bolt looks like it was overtightened by a previous install and the old RTV at the oil pan gasket face looked crude and lumpy. One of the two rubber plugs over the tiny bolts hidden near the torque converter were missing. I'm petty sure the oil pain has been removed before. I wonder why? Maybe someone has replaced the oil pickup seal in the past. It seems hard to believe considering how poor its condition was. Maybe the last oil change they removed the oil pan and yet they didn't fix the seized drain bolt? I'll admit drilling it out was nerve-wracking but I can't imagine going through all the work to drop the pan for an oil change and then just not fixing it. I can only imagine what was done two owners ago.

I also drained the transmission fluid and refilled it. I bet its the first time in the whole 275K miles. I only got three quarts with just a simple drain and refill. I could get more swapped if I did a proper flush but that's generally a waste of time and fluid. For a flush you run the car with it overfilled and the tiny drain bolt out. Keep pouring ATF in faster than it comes out and let it run a quart or two heavy until the end of the flush. Thats the most thorough but it also wastes alot of new fluid. I'm not really that worried about the viscosity of the fluid breaking down. Its really just about getting the glitter out before it turns to sludge. A flush also is very ineffective because the glitter likes to build up in tight turns akin to how prospecting for gold uses turns to let gold flakes drop out in a sluice. Almost all of it is in the valve body cramming up against the screens of the solenoid. The fluid was as black as can be. There wasn't any red visible at all. The fluid also had the glitter floating up in clouds as it hit the pan. Wow. I can't imagine owning a car and just never changing the "lifetime" fluid. I wanted to replace the internal filter but turns out it requires transmission removal and whole case broken open. I'll be cutting the return line from the radiator and putting in my backwards fuel filter hack very soon. I hope to get all that silver glitter out of the fluid the same way I do it to my other project cars. Keep running it through a very fine filter long enough and it'll work out of the nooks and crannies and be clean again without the 1,000 gal of ATF it would take by flushing methods. I wonder just how far I can keep the original transmission before rebuild?
 

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So was looking online for the pickup seal conversion and found this posting. Guy is selling the conversion, but is also including seals for the PCV and oil level sensor. This kit would provide a seal for all of the oil leak spots on the pan

 

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Discussion Starter · #74 ·
So was looking online for the pickup seal conversion and found this posting. Guy is selling the conversion, but is also including seals for the PCV and oil level sensor. This kit would provide a seal for all of the oil leak spots on the pan
That is the exact item I purchased and installed. It worked great. It shipped from Poland but didn't take too long considering. It beat the initial estimated delivery date by one day.
 

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Discussion Starter · #75 ·
I believe I read in service data it says to cut a slot in the bolt head.
The bolt has a larger diameter section of shank below the pan of the head to prevent overtightening from breaking the plastic. I left it alone and now if I need to remove the pan I just have 3/8" fuel line and a hose clamp to loosen from the barb. I would only need to slot the bolt to replace the Oring and its at the very top of the pan so its just splash oil, not immersion. I didn't actually use the extra O-rings that came with the kit. The base of the barb had little chip off it already and did seem pretty fragile. I don't think it would survive an extended effort to extract that bolt.

That topic inspires me to enthusiastically rant about the joys of Neversieze. I use copious neversieze on all hose barbs with any flexible line or hose. I use it with water, coolant, fuel or oil. I've found stiff old dryrot lines years after installing them and they still release and twist off without having to cut them off or without breaking the barb. It really extends the service life of the stuff I put together. For instance I hate having to replace okay radiator hoses because they are corroded fast to the water pump outlet or radiator. I especially hate replacing a whole caliper because the bleed screw broke. Neversieze is beautiful stuff.

I used to hesitate on using Neversieze on electrical connections. I used to use the No-ox marketed for electrical panels. Thats basically bulk packaging of the same stuff that auto parts places sell in tiny little packages for battery connections. I've since learned that Neversieze was thoroughly tested for power company use and behaves well. Its also been tested as an alternative for heat sink paste. It actually outperforms the common heat sink goop sold for PC motherboards. The cheap HEI ignition modules with notorious short life last forever if they are globbed in Neversieze before install. I've also been thoroughly testing the limits of high amperage applications. I've used disgusting amounts of it on starter connections, battery terminals, start solenoid connections, sensor plugs, and home electrical applications. If you spread stranded electrical wire fibers apart and goop a whole bunch of Neversieze into it then apply a wire nut that connection will be rust free and perfectly conductive a decade later even in high moisture exterior uses. If you slather it on the inside of aluminum rims they never decay against the steel rotors. If you goop up your welder connections or jumper cable crimps during assembly they wont be green and decayed ever again. The horrible chalk that builds up around battery posts hasn't ever been there since I started slathering them up. Neversieze doesn't conduct micro amperage present in corrosion but it doesn't restrict operational amperage at all, even tiny amperages like hall sensors. It does "dry up" and get thick but a shot of PB Blaster and its instantly renewed to like-new viscosity. I cut the containers in half and use a paint brush to slather it everywhere.
 

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The bolt has a larger diameter section of shank below the pan of the head to prevent overtightening from breaking the plastic. I left it alone and now if I need to remove the pan I just have 3/8" fuel line and a hose clamp to loosen from the barb. I would only need to slot the bolt to replace the Oring and its at the very top of the pan so its just splash oil, not immersion. I didn't actually use the extra O-rings that came with the kit. The base of the barb had little chip off it already and did seem pretty fragile. I don't think it would survive an extended effort to extract that bolt.

That topic inspires me to enthusiastically rant about the joys of Neversieze. I use copious neversieze on all hose barbs with any flexible line or hose. I use it with water, coolant, fuel or oil. I've found stiff old dryrot lines years after installing them and they still release and twist off without having to cut them off or without breaking the barb. It really extends the service life of the stuff I put together. For instance I hate having to replace okay radiator hoses because they are corroded fast to the water pump outlet or radiator. I especially hate replacing a whole caliper because the bleed screw broke. Neversieze is beautiful stuff.

I used to hesitate on using Neversieze on electrical connections. I used to use the No-ox marketed for electrical panels. Thats basically bulk packaging of the same stuff that auto parts places sell in tiny little packages for battery connections. I've since learned that Neversieze was thoroughly tested for power company use and behaves well. Its also been tested as an alternative for heat sink paste. It actually outperforms the common heat sink goop sold for PC motherboards. The cheap HEI ignition modules with notorious short life last forever if they are globbed in Neversieze before install. I've also been thoroughly testing the limits of high amperage applications. I've used disgusting amounts of it on starter connections, battery terminals, start solenoid connections, sensor plugs, and home electrical applications. If you spread stranded electrical wire fibers apart and goop a whole bunch of Neversieze into it then apply a wire nut that connection will be rust free and perfectly conductive a decade later even in high moisture exterior uses. If you slather it on the inside of aluminum rims they never decay against the steel rotors. If you goop up your welder connections or jumper cable crimps during assembly they wont be green and decayed ever again. The horrible chalk that builds up around battery posts hasn't ever been there since I started slathering them up. Neversieze doesn't conduct micro amperage present in corrosion but it doesn't restrict operational amperage at all, even tiny amperages like hall sensors. It does "dry up" and get thick but a shot of PB Blaster and its instantly renewed to like-new viscosity. I cut the containers in half and use a paint brush to slather it everywhere.
So where do you source this product from?
 

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Discussion Starter · #78 · (Edited)
Permatex Neversieze is at all the major parts suppliers. Sold in a grey round jar about 6" tall with a metal lid for about $9. Its usually sitting on the shelf below the RTV products. There is also a copper version for high temperature applications like exhaust manifold gaskets. I also use it on all gasket surfaces, which help them from sticking and needing to be scraped off next time. It works great on carb gaskets because if I have to pull the carb apart a couple times to troubleshoot the float gaskets dont rip and crumble and usually don't need to be replaced. It also helps Orings from sticking.

The single best use is for polyurethane bushings. If you replace rubber with polyurethane on suspension parts like sway bar endlinks they will squeak something fierce. If you glob everything with neversieze thoroughly, setting each part and making sure polyurethane never hits metal without it then you'll have a totally quiet ride when you are done. It keeps the threads as clean as the day you installed them and tapered joints ready to pop free as needed, like the ball joint on the Cruze that needs to be popped off each time you pull the CV shaft, like when dropping the oil pan.

I do use it with Stainless Steel but sparingly because stainless is very brittle and very easily galled. It isn't needed to mate stainless to stainless but it does help preserve the metal being bolted and sometimes prevents galvanic action that decays non-stainless in contact with stainless.
 

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Discussion Starter · #79 · (Edited)
I just bought a second Diesel Cruze. It has 50K miles. It was smashed up two or three owners ago and rebuilt. The last owners got hit while sitting still at a red light. It got hit right at the driver side headlamp. I'm not totally sure what repair is from the first hit or the recent one since it was basically the exact same spot. They started to replace stuff and decided to stop because the second hit caused a crack on the crush zone behind the bumper support. I expected to see a crack on the front subframe by their description and figured it would be an awesome spare transmission and such. It didn't sound repairable when I agreed to buy it. When I saw how minor the crack was and especially where it was I immediately decided to fix the car. It is very minor damage. They tried to weld the front bumper loop to the body and talked about putting a rigid tie between them which would have negated the crush zone and how its supposed to work. Thankfully their "arc-welds" had no penetration and just fell off with a hammer whack. It seems to run well and I'm anxious to get it fully on the road.

I got the new facia, hood, and radiator already. It already has a new fender and headlight assembly. I think I just need a new foglight and bezel and the marker lights seem to be missing. It was $2,700 and with registration, notary costs, EFIlive registration, and the missing parts I'm up to $3,900 so far. I'm not getting a fancy downpipe for this one although it will be retuned the same and my old clogged downpipe has been "unclogged" and swapped on. It was easy to do with the radiator missing.

The Rebuilt title means the 50K mile car stays a spare since the 287K mile car is a clear title eligible for Uber. I would yank any part out of this and put it in the high mileage one to minimize downtime if we had a sudden failure. Hopefully I can stay ahead and get another parts car so I'm ready for failures and don't need to have both down together. This Cruze was too nice to kill for parts so its graduated to be our spare and test mule.

We need a test mule because we have been experimenting with old motor oil heavily filtered and mixed with gasoline. We want to "run black" on the spare Cruze for awhile before attempting to run the main one on a black oil/diesel mix. It works great on the indirect injection systems on my older stuff. For the direct injection Cruze I'm not worried about the lubricity of the injection pump but the injectors themselves will likely need constant maintenance to keep from coking up. I want to eventually add a small amount of propane injection and retune the car to compensate. Propane injection does wonders for the incomplete combustion that causes black soot and black engine oil. I'm hoping to smoke less than it originally did on straight diesel and I'm optimistic that it will also negate the coking problems with the black oil mix.
 

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I believe I read in service data it says to cut a slot in the bolt head.
That is correct. By law...for some reason...it is some weird-ass tamper proof bolt. It's something like a five-pointed, slanted, interface - it only allows tightening with the proper socket, but not loosening.

The slot didn't work work a ****, but hammering on a 1/2" 12-point worked quite well, since it isn't super tight.

I replaced that bolt with a nice stainless Philips-head one.
 
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