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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So far only three, Ford Focus Electric, Mitsubishi MiEV, and the Nissan Leaf, Chevy Volt is considered more like a hybrid with a much larger battery.

Most common battery is the Ni-Cad MH, lithium-ion is coming of age, lithium-air is still in the dream stage as are photovoltaic amorphous photo cells. Suppose to be as cheap to manufacture as plastic bags.

But why even consider battery power, certainly will add a lot of weight to the vehicle, and the way they are made now with many cells in series, if one goes bad, have to replace the entire pack. Then the inefficiency, electricity still has to be generated and mostly by burning fossil fuels.

In my neck of the woods, some 50 years ago, the majority of the electricity generation was by hydroelectric. But for some reason, the number of rivers did not keep up with the population growth. With closures of two key nuclear power plants, the major supplementation of what little hydro we have left is by building natural gas plants.

These heat boilers to drive steam turbines to drive generators and are best at around 70% efficient with further losses due to transformation and power line loss. Then a further loss in charging the battery, typically around 10%, even a further loss in using that chemical power to drive the motor. Even the better electric motors lose about another 20% efficiency.

So why not power our vehicles with just natural gas? We have plenty of that.

Energy cannot be created or destroyed, but can be converted into another form of energy if it doesn't bankrupt us first. And with the more transformations, the more this energy is wasted.

A far better approach would be just to burn this natural gas approaching the efficiencies of commercial generation, would end up in a much lighter vehicle. But instead of making steam, use refrigerant as the carrier to directly drive a piston like pump. Super pressures can be had with refrigerants in a closed loop system. And just like an old fashion steam powered locomotive, only forward and reverse would be necessary as the starting torque would be enormous eliminating the need for a transmission.

Burning natural gas would eliminate all these emission controls, burn quiet, no need for a muffler, and is a direct means to power our vehicles.

So why the need for all these conversions using electrically powered vehicles? Only reason I can think of, the more conversions, the more hands in the pie so more can make a lot more of our hard earned money.

Fifty years ago, we were paying a cent for a KWH of electricity and resistant electric heat was quite common, more like 12-15 cent KWH now. Stepdaughter was dumb enough to move into an apartment with resistant heat. Didn't bankrupt her, but almost bankrupted us. Natural gas is the cheapest way to heat our homes, also the cheapest to run our vehicles.
 

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Don't forget the Tesla Model S and no longer made Roadster. These are pure electric vehicles with reasonable (>250 mile) range on a charge.
 

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Don't forget the Tesla Model S and no longer made Roadster. These are pure electric vehicles with reasonable (>250 mile) range on a charge.
And a 100k price tag. My dad had a deposit/reservation on one, went to the debut events too. No one could answer detailed questions about the car, but they did confirm it would have three battery pack choices. A 100 mile, 200 mile, and 300 mile range. The 100 mile range was somewhat more affordable (I think around 60k), but then it quickly jumped for the longer range batteries. The car that they originally pegged around 45k (and thus comparable with something like a Lincoln MKS) quickly became a fashion/pop item instead of a money saving option. When it came time to start choosing options and putting more of a deposit down, he took the full refund option instead.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
EIC Labs came received a patent in 1996 on an oxygen/lithium ion battery. In theory sounds great, a six pound battery, the same weight as a gallon of gas is suppose to have the same amount of energy as a gallon of gas, that weighs six pounds.

But they could never find an electrolyte nor cathode that is stable. IBM took over in 2009 and using Department of Energy super computers, think in the next two years will come out with the right formula. Really sound optimistic to me if such materials really exist. Sounds great if 120 pounds of battery can propel a vehicle 500 miles on a single charge.

Oxygen from the atmosphere is sucked in during charges, then expelled back into the atmosphere on discharge reacting somehow with the lithium ion and whatever type of cathode they are going produce. Super computers do not know if such materials even exist in this universe. Haven't learned if IBM received a government grant of all this.

We are still using 210 year old technology in our starting batteries in our cars. Ford and Edison spent ten years and ten million dollars back in 1900 trying to develop a better battery with no success, since then, millions of combinations have been tried. They major problem to overcome is storing huge amounts of energy in a small package is very dangerous and unstable.

A battery is NOT an energy source, but a media to store energy, still need an energy source to charge it. And the trend today is to use natural gas or coal fired plants to produce this energy. Nuclear energy is on the downhill side. Again a huge amount of energy stored in a very small space.

So why all this playing around, why not just power our vehicles with liquidized natural gas, make it simple, get rid of all these unnecessary energy conversions, and make a cheap practical vehicle.

Another really huge supply of energy is methane, not only natural, but generated by sewage and manure decomposition with a known 12,000 year supply of this stuff that burns clean. Also the major cause of ozone depletion where the idiots running our governments blame a can of R-12 for this age old problem.

Nuclear fusion is really the long term answer, but very little is being done to develop it. But what can be done when we have idiots running our country. Watched or try to watch two of them last Monday night, just couldn't take it and turned off the TV set. And that goes for the rest of 435 in congress and another hundred in the senate. Same group of people that took away six years of my life so I could protect their freedom. I sure didn't enjoy that freedom. And not enjoying it today by having my job exported and being taxed to death.

But we have answers to our problems, only need people of intelligence to find these answers. Ironically, they already have been found.
 
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