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Antifreeze Smell Thread V.2

192K views 798 replies 74 participants last post by  obermd 
#1 · (Edited)
This is Version 2 of the Antifreeze Smell Thread. Due to the sheer length of the original thread (in excess of 100 pages), it has exhausted its usefulness and has been locked.

This thread is dedicated to the discussion of the antifreeze smell that some of us are experiencing with our Cruze. You are free to complain or vent frustration, but not free to do so excessively or to troll. I understand that for many of you, this is a big concern and a huge inconvenience, but in the interest of everyone's sanity and of maintaining a positive environment, keep your complaints limited. Believe me when I say we've heard them already, in every possible variety you can imagine.

To be clear, this thread is not for the reporting of your problem, but for the discussion of the problem, its nature, GM's progress with a fix, and any other related topics. If you wish to report this problem, I have created a thread that GM is watching: http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/25-service-issues/10677-antifreeze-smell-support.html. Please read and understand the original post in that thread before posting.

Thank you for your cooperation.
 
#2 ·
Got some information finally regarding all of this that I can share with you guys.

I had someone from GM's executive office in Detroit get in touch with me regarding the issue with my car, and she was very transparent with me regarding what the status of the issue is. I also talked to my contact in social media, and she gave me some insight as well.

GM is aware of the problem; there's no doubt about that. However, they are also aware that it doesn't work for everyone and that many people are still having an issue with their car. As a result of that, they are currently working on a more permanent fix. This tube+glue fix that is available in a PI is not the final fix. For whatever reason, it may work for you or it may not.

If you currently have the coolant smell issue in your car, you have two options:

1. Take your car in and get this PI service done on your vehicle
2. Wait until GM comes out with a permanent fix for it

I have opted not to get the current fix done as my issue is not anywhere near as severe as that of other members. My case executive will be sending me an update every month regarding the status of GM's progress with finding a fix for this issue, and will notify me when it is completed. My contact in Social Media is also in touch with Brand Quality and she will work with them to see where they are at with regard to status or progress on finding a permanent fix and making it available. She will let me know as soon as she gets more information.

GM is being quite transparent about this issue and has given me the good-to-go to share this information with you guys. At this time, you can rest assured that GM is indeed aware that the current "fix" is not effective and they are working on a better one that will get rid of this problem.
 
#15 ·
Got some information finally regarding all of this that I can share with you guys.

I had someone from GM's executive office in Detroit get in touch with me regarding the issue with my car, and she was very transparent with me regarding what the status of the issue is. I also talked to my contact in social media, and she gave me some insight as well.

GM is aware of the problem; there's no doubt about that. However, they are also aware that it doesn't work for everyone and that many people are still having an issue with their car. As a result of that, they are currently working on a more permanent fix. This tube+glue fix that is available in a PI is not the final fix. For whatever reason, it may work for you or it may not.

If you currently have the coolant smell issue in your car, you have two options:

1. Take your car in and get this PI service done on your vehicle
2. Wait until GM comes out with a permanent fix for it

I have opted not to get the current fix done as my issue is not anywhere near as severe as that of other members. My case executive will be sending me an update every month regarding the status of GM's progress with finding a fix for this issue, and will notify me when it is completed. My contact in Social Media is also in touch with Brand Quality and she will work with them to see where they are at with regard to status or progress on finding a permanent fix and making it available. She will let me know as soon as she gets more information.

GM is being quite transparent about this issue and has given me the good-to-go to share this information with you guys. At this time, you can rest assured that GM is indeed aware that the current "fix" is not effective and they are working on a better one that will get rid of this problem.
So when did they actually figure out that PI did not work? It has been almost 8 months since they released that and they are telling you they are still working on things? You don't find that kind of strange?
 
#9 ·
Go to top of thread to black bar, click drop down for thread tools, click Subscribe to this thread (last option), then choose your preferred subscription type (instant email, etc.) and save the changes.
 
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#4 ·
I would like to say I took my car in this week & they checked the system for leaks. None were found so they added the vent tube to the surge tank & upgraded engine compartment seals. I have driven about 100miles so far & have not had one wiff of antifreeze in the cabin. Both days were below 15degrees(today below zero) which normally would cause the smell the whole time once the car was at 180-230degrees.

I still have smell under the hood & slight smell standing next to the car but as long as I can drive & breath freely I'm happy. I will watch my surge tank level to see if I loose any. I see the dealer filled to the arrow(it was always low), I added a couple inches a few thousand miles ago which seemed to have vented into the atmosphere.

Overall I am happy but feel the car should not be loosing antifreeze or smelling even under the hood.
 
#7 ·
Given that the anti-freeze into the cabin ranges from none to immediate health issues I'm not surprised that GM is having a hard time tracking this down. I suspect there are a variety of problems that cause this issue.
 
#8 ·
And the final resolution will require more than one corrective action. I also am happy to hear that Chevy is working on a better fix than the tape/tube one.
 
#10 ·
Never had this issue hope I never do. Good read.
 
#11 ·
Here is an update on the work being done to my Cruze.....

I have had the seal replaced, hose added to bottle, and heater core replaced, all to no avail.


Next steps are to replace some of the heater core mounting structure with the thought that it is porous and may have soaked up antifreeze from the leaking heater core.
 
#12 ·
Here is an update on the work being done to my Cruze.....

I have had the seal replaced, hose added to bottle, and heater core replaced, all to no avail.

Next steps are to replace some of the heater core mounting structure with the thought that it is porous and may have soaked up antifreeze from the leaking heater core.
Has your dealership checked the material under the floor base carpet? It is porous and will absorb anti-freeze.
 
#17 ·
Good point on the degraded sensors. I hadn't thought of that aspect. I'd bet checking/replacement of those related sensors will be part of the forthcoming fix. And I bet there will also be a software refresh for the ECM. Perhaps it's time for a "Service Pack" for the Cruze.
 
#19 ·
A "Service Pack" sounds like it makes alot of sense ... and this may be why it has been taking a long time to get the final "fix" released. Often it takes longer to validate / perform regression testing on a software (or firmware) fix for a complete system like a car or aircraft, because they have to re-verify many of the other systems that the software also controls to ensure that they haven't inadvertently "broken" something else unassociated with the area that they are trying to fix. For a hardware solution, you can build a prototype (or buy the parts if they are off-the shelf parts) and try them out. After a hardware fix is proven, then the parts can be purchased and put into supply.

Here's an interesting photo of the overflow tank / connections from one of the sites that showed pics of the Diesel Cruze (Eco-D). It shows another fitting / hose leading down from the coolant tank. Perhaps there will be a pressure release valve in the fitting, and the 2nd hose will be used to vent things when it gets too hot. BTW: the current Cruze tank has a molded plastic clip that is unused, but this picture of the Diesel Cruze tank shows that this molded clip is being used to hold the additional hose. I don't know whether they will incorporate this new set-up as part of the current Cruze fix, but it looks interesting. I still think that they need to ensure that the cooling system doesn't need to vent in the first place though.
 

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#20 ·
Thanks very much for the additional information ... re: the fan set on the lowest speeds (1 or 2) ... I forgot about that. The lower the speed that the fan is set on, the less heat transfer that is being removed heater core under the dash and being re-distributed inside the vehicle. Perhaps, if they have an issue with their ECU computer program (such that the ECU program was designed to not take the fan setting into account for controlling the "electro-thermostat" for the coolant) then this could be the "straw that breaks the camel's back". That is, the ECU doesn't have all the data it needs for accurately predicting when to open the "electro-thermostat" and allows the coolant to overheat and the cooling system to vent. From other posts, it looks like they get the best fuel economy out of the 1.4 when they purposefully run it "hot", but if their ECU program doesn't have the correct data, or all the data it needs to keep it from getting "too hot" then it gets away from them with these coolant "outgassing" events.
 
#21 ·
At least this problem is receiving some national attention. I clicked an e-mail from another car complaint site and the antifreeze smell in the Cruze was in the top ten complaints for all cars sold in the U.S. for 2011. Toyota lead the list for all problems and recalls though.
 
#23 ·
2012 cruze eco, 10065 miles. Finished my 4th visit today. Had PI completed two weeks ago, no improvement. This visit was to replace the heater core, unfortunately it was dry and no leaks found. Now they plan is to contact a field specialist. Aleast this vehicle will make a good case study. If I get a good word I will post it.
 
#28 ·
My latest update. Tomorrow the car is scheduled for a heater core replacement. Dealer has contacted GM and their engineering specialist has informed them that the heater cores are defective internally. Not to the point of leaking onto the carpet, but enough to leak vapor causing a rainbow effect on the bottom center of the windshield. That symptom, along with the sweet and hot rubber smell is my latest complaint. I will post the factual results when I hide the loaner car somewhere on the dealer lot and road test my car for 45 minutes before swapping keys.

If you have 4 documented repairs for the same condition and no fix, then you definitely should exercise your rights under lemon law. GM is well aware of them and I am SURE they will offer you some serious relief in order to not buy back your 2012. I hope to post on that after this "final repair attempt
" (their words) is completed.
 
#24 ·
While I agree that the fix for this issue is likely complex and will take awhile to test and implement, I wonder why Chevy chose to keep the dealerships in the dark? If the dealers had knowledge of the situation, they could have avoided some customer frustration and lowered satisfaction. I have not seen anything other than PI in Techlink on the smell issue. Maybe that's the way it's always been done.My prediction: A software update for the ECM & a 22 psi surge tank cap.
 
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#25 ·
... I wonder why Chevy chose to keep the dealerships in the dark? ...
Complete guess, but going on the general behaviour of any sales-driven organisation - because if they told the dealers the dealers would stop selling Cruzen.

The dealers want their service departments doing scheduled services - that's their bread-and-butter money - and the odd add-on - which is for beer and skittles.

Recalls and warranty problems cost the dealership.

Of course, this ignores the base state of any and all communications from any car company: lie. If that doesn't work, lie some more.
 
#26 ·
Yeah... You don't admit "we goofed" until you have a fix. Otherwise, your competitors drag you through the mud over it. I know of a company (computers, not cars) that had an annoying problem where their stuff would randomly crash for no apparent reason that took a year to find the root cause of (turned out to be a defect in a chip from a 3rd party vendor) and get a fix into production. I don't think the Cruze fix will take quite that long, I'm not a mechanical engineer but a car cooling system really doesn't even come close to the level of complexity of a modern computer chip.
 
#29 ·
They created a PI 8 months ago. Before the PI came out they admitted there was a problem and they were working on it. If they admitted on working on it before why haven't they done it again? As of January 10, 2013 a GM District factory rep told me in person he never heard of the issues I have had with the coolant smell. GM engineering told my CS rep that no redesign was in the works and no changes were made for 2013. My dealer was in contact with GM engineering about my car quite a few times and all they told them was to try different pressure caps and recommend a particular tape to use for the PI (which ultimately failed). GM engineering did not tell them they were still looking into it. And you mean to tell us you are so special they are going to tell you what is going on and not their own employees who deal directly with their customers? I call bullpuckey- maybe they are starting to just care now because of some attention it is getting. Do you really think GM is just taking their time, 8 months and counting to get it exactly right- especially an issue that can have health consequences to their customers? Why would they not get this perm fix out as soon as they can? In the meantime I have talked to others who got rid of their Cruze because of this. In my case GM gave me a check. So the powers that be at GM have no qualms seeing customers take an official GM check and see that check signed over and cashed by another car company? Its all a matter of taking their time to get this fix out- who cares if people get sick from toxic fumes or we have to repurchase a few cars. They ignored the problem in the name of $$ and now is getting caught and suddenly they care- end of story.
 
#33 ·
Listen bud, just because your GM district factory rep told you in person that he had never heard of the issues, doesn't mean he in fact did not. GM is pretty limited in what they are able to say for legal reasons. On that note, service engineering is very tight-lipped about what they are doing most of the time and nothing gets to the customer service level that isn't approved by legal and brand quality. If you haven't noticed, I have a relationship with some people inside GM that allows me to get some information because they trust I know how to present that information and what information not to present. There is plenty of information I was given that I have chosen out of mutual respect not to share. I'm not really concerned with what you were told; I am simply concerned with what I was told and who told it to me, and on that note you can either trust what I said as truth or you can not; it doesn't make a difference to me.

I mean to tell you I'm so special? No, I never told you I'm so special, but you are more than welcome to call up GM's social media department and ask them if they know who XtremeRevolution is. First time I got any contact from the social media representative that I talk to over the phone, I mentioned who I was on this forum and she replied saying "yeah, I know who you are. Everyone here knows your name (XtremeRevolution), but in a good way." So if you must in fact ask if I'm so special, then yes, considering I create threads like this and the Antifreeze Smell Support thread to give GM additional resources regarding a fix and give you guys information that allows you to get an idea of what GM is doing instead of them being silent or having you jump through hoops in hopes of getting that information yourself, I'd say I do a heck of a lot of work that might in fact make me a bit special. Not that I find any sense of entitlement from it, but to ask what makes me so special as to get information you did not? Well, the answer to that shouldn't be too hard to find.

Why would they not get this permanent fix out as soon as they can? For reasons I already told you. Did you not read my large reply a few posts back? It's far more difficult to release a fix than you are aware, especially when there was a chance that the PI could have solved the issue of the coolant smell entering the cabin and its associated health risks. Evidently it did not. I don't know if the PI was used in hopes that they could appease owners who are having this issue until a permanent solution comes out, or if they intended it to be a permanent solution at first and then realized that it wasn't going to work. Having been here for a little over a year now, believe me when I say I too have seen people sell their car over this issue and it was discouraging seeing them have to go through that. It's not a matter of taking their time; it's a matter of following the process they have in place to ensure that they don't run into any legal issues, or to ensure that the solution is in fact permanent. I get the impression you really don't know how things work in GM and how long it takes for a solution to a problem like this to be released. There are many factors and variables that you have not considered. If you recall an issue regarding the strut popping noise a year ago, you'll remember how long that took. They discovered noisy struts that were put in cars produced before December 2011, and they halted production of the Cruze for a week as a result of those defective struts. They developed a new strut to go in the new cars, but it took them at least 4 months more before people could actually go to their dealers and have them replace the strut.

That said, you've expressed your discontent. I'm not too concerned with helping you anymore as you don't even have a Cruze. What I am concerned with is the attitude you're giving me considering I personally helped you in the past and went out of my way to try to get you some resolution to your problem. What bothers me is why you're deliberately giving me a hard time here. If you want to help people in this thread, by all means help them, but if you're just here to give me a hard time and question what I tell people without any concrete reason, then you don't need to be here.
 
#31 ·
Ah. I was neglecting a lot of that stuff. I forgot that the Cruze has a computer controlled thermostat that could introduce the possibility of needing an ECM flash. Also, in the end, the company I referred to did about 6 months of testing of their vendor's new chips that supposedly fixed the problem after they discovered the bad chips before manufacturing new circuit boards to replace the ones with the bad chips, but in the end every affected customer got a free replacement.
 
#32 ·
Cruzex, welcome to CruzeTalk and thank you for your well thought out comments.
 
#34 ·
We need people like XTreme to be a go between and contact with GM. Coming from GMInsideNews believe me it helps.

Now, I do fault GM for knowing about this issue for the first 2 model years and then making zero changes for the 2013 Model. That is just unacceptable. I know other car companies have issues but I don't think any of them would be stupid enough to continue producing a model with a known defect for a third year in a row without changes.
GM should have put whatever was necessary into correcting this issue and if their engineering team couldn't come up with a fix than perhaps Opel's engineering team could have been brought in.
From what I understand only NA Cruzen (I love saying that) have this issue, if so, than the 1.4T should have been replaced by another engine (such as the 2.4L Ecotec) until and unless GM could find the problem. In the meantime engineers should have kept looking for a way to fix those from 2011 and 2012. Speaking of Ecotec, GM had a perfectly good engine in the 2.2L Engine and if they had this engine standard and the 1.4T optional it would have been a better way to go, but that is a seperate issue.
It's clear to me that GM didn't have any urgency about this issue until less than a year ago. Something is wrong somewhere. What about the sticking steering issue, will GM wait another year before deciding it was worth their time and effort to correct?
Now, more lost customers and fewer customers buying the Cruze. and possible lost to GM forever. That is not a good business model.
 
#36 ·
My post was not directed towards you and I'm sorry I came across in that way. My post was directed at GM. My dealer tried very hard to fix my car. The CS reps I talked through all of this appeared to be very honest with me and wanted to help. I appreciate your help here. I just don't see why GM would keep info from those people who worked hard to helped me. I liked the Cruze and expressed I wanted to get it fixed and did not want to go down the road of a repurchase. If I was told they are working on a fix and acknowledged the problem I would have gotten another Cruze. I think GM did a disservice by not communicating that to the people who directly deal with the customers. Because of that they lost one. I just think it is crazy they will share info with you and not with people who could have kept me as a GM customer. I am not talking detailed explicit info, I'm talking of basic info saying we realize a problem exists and we are working hard to solve this. Knowing that this issue has a tendency to show up after quite a few miles on the car I would have gladly got a 2013 Cruze. No one had answers for me and I had no choice to do what I did. I just hope there are people who are not going to suffer major health issues because of this. This could potentially be a very serious issue. My car got unbearable towards the end. Good luck to everyone and I am done posting here. I will monitor out of curiosity. I hope I read about a solution to this strictly on this forum and not watching the nightly news one day yet announcing another Cruze recall.
 
#37 ·
It's a matter of liability. When a company becomes that large, if you let out information in a bad way, it can end up costing a lot of money.

It is because of people like yourself that I started pressing on to get some information from GM. I saw that they were losing customers left and right and I stressed that I needed information ASAP in order for people to see that they actually cared. Within less than a week, I was given the information I posted in the 2nd post of this thread.

Social Media is something new to GM and something they are figuring out as they go along. They're a bit late to the party considering forums like this have been around for at least a decade now, but at least there's progress.

It sucks to hear that the issue in your car became unbearable. Believe me, I would have done the exact same you did; only I would have made so much noise that every news network in the Chicago area would have received a letter about it, the BBB and the NHTSA would have received complaints, and I would have demanded a refund.

Glad to hear you weren't directing the attitude toward me and it was just toward GM. In that regard, I'd agree with you, and I believe that your attitude toward them is well deserved and justifiable. I am glad that GM finally got some information through regarding this issue, but I am sad that for many people, it was too late. One can only hope that GM will learn from things like this.

I work in customer service and have done so for my entire career. I'm a systems security administrator who grants access to over 50 applications on the network for a health care company that employs 15,000 people. I manage projects as well as grant access. I recently became the lead IT consultant for my deceased father in law's company and have been dealing with his clients. In addition to this, I build sub boxes for people on this forum, which I'm now catching up on after having been bombarded with work and life events. One thing I learned over the years is that it doesn't necessarily matter how long it takes you to do something, but how well you communicate with your clients and how well you give them the impression that you have the situation under control and that you are working on the problem. In IT, I am forced to remember that on a daily basis as I cannot simply work on a problem behind the scenes for a month and not communicate back with updates.

That degree of customer service applies to all industries. People need to know that they can trust you, and to do that, you have to provide constant and transparent communication. I have no doubt that there are many who are going to read this thread and think "alright, I'll hold off on trading my car in for a while longer waiting for this fix."
 
#38 ·
Still no smell thankfully
 
#39 ·
XtremeRevolution- :eek:fftopic:

Can I ask a dumb question since you seem to have this relationship with GM that none of us do. WHY weren't/aren't they as "transparent" about the transmission issues that many of us had with our 2011 Cruzes OR are they quietly working on solving that issue also? I don't think I have EVER read anything in this forum or any other forum dealing with the shifting issue where GM fixed someone's car. I have never seen an admission by GM that there was any issue at all. Seems like everyone, including myself, gets told- "car operating as designed"? IF that was the case, then WHY did they change the shift patterns for the 2012/2013 models? I'm just curious. I just got rid of my Cruze LTZ RS after just about 2 years and 13,300 miles plus having one year remaining on my lease and leased a 2013 Buick Verano Turbo on Jan. 31st. The straw that broke the camel's back was a GM engineer looking at my car at the dealer for 5 days and driving it for 13 miles and telling me on Jan. 21st that it's fine! I am no engineer or mechanic, but have been buying new cars every 2-3 years for the past 50 years since I was 16 years old and think I have a LITTLE life experience to know when something is not quite right.! I don't need an engineering degree or a mechanic's degree to know when something is drastically wrong with a car!

I wish you continued luck trying to help everyone here, but many of the Cruze problems SHOULD have been found in their FOUR MILLION miles of testing. This car was out for several years in other parts of the world and could not be THAT different than what came to our shores. IF they were that different, then GM should have tested the cars that were going to be sold here for 4 million miles! It's just aggravating when you spend good money for a new car and have to put up with nonsense like this. I have had plenty of "first year" model cars with NO problems. Many of them WERE GM products- Chevy Caprices, Buick Rivieras, Buick LaCrosse etc.

I haven't given up on GM products YET! Let's just hope this new Verano Turbo is troublefree. So far, so good- 3 days!
:)
 
#40 · (Edited)
Fastdriver: GM did more than just change the shift maps on the 6T40 trasnaxle for 2012. The unit got new bearings, new solinoids, and a new TCM also. It actually became the second generation of this transmission. Buick even got a third version for e versions which had a second TCM installed for that function. Why didn't they at least do a software upgrade for the 2011s? I have no idea and we will likely never know why. My guess is $$$$$$. Sorry, I didn't mean to take this thread off topic. Back to the "smell".

UPDATE: After thinking on this (old age = slow thought process), $$$ may entail more than just updating the TCMs of all of the 2011s out there. As XR and others have explained, the Cruze electronics is a system of processors, network, and peripheral devices and simply changing one thing may break, or hinder, something else. This may be why the transmission underwent so much change for the second generation model. I'm seeing this effect on other brands of cars that have high degrees of electronic integration as owners try to apply aftermarket items and have problems with some other part of the electronics on the car. Also, there is a long history in the automotive industry of making changes to correct something wrong in one model year and not retrofitting that change. Example: early Camaros suffered horrible rear axle wheel hop under acceleration and braking. Chevy corrected it by changing the shock mounting in '69.
 
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#41 ·
Something new to think about this problem. Over time with my 2012 I have had that smell but only when I lift up the hood. So now what I have found is that every time it smells the upper coolant hose has very little pressure in it as I squeeze it and I can smell the coolant coming from the Rad-cap only. I have had only a few time with this smell and most of the other times the upper hose has great pressure in it and no smell at the overflow tank.
 
#42 ·
Off to the dealership today with a grin on my face. Left with the service managers 2013 Traverse LT while they worked on my car--nice vehicle for a loaner! They went back in, took everything apart, and started from the bottom up with seal replacement. I will admit that my dealership got it right this time (completing the PI as outlined). Actually, they went above and beyond trying to seal the vapors from coming into the cabin. Job completed in a few hours. Left with a smile, handshake, new seals, and they even replaced the cabin filter per my request. Down the road I went--time to test drive and determine the outcome. Sniff, sniff, what's that smell, the diesel pickup in front of me?--No. Did I put my deodorant on this morning?--Yes. The car that I passed wasn't burning oil? SNIFF, SNIFF:sick:--Dex-cool! Of course--I called my district specialist and left a message to return my call.

I have been doing my own research and I think I found a fix (Plan B)--at least for now.

Plan B:

Personal protective equipment


I know how frustrating:blowup: this is, but I am trying to keep a good attitude and a sense of humor. That 2013 black Malibu sure looked nice at the dealership today!
 
#43 ·
Off to the dealership today with a grin on my face. Left with the service managers 2013 Traverse LT while they worked on my car--nice vehicle for a loaner! They went back in, took everything apart, and started from the bottom up with seal replacement. I will admit that my dealership got it right this time (completing the PI as outlined). Actually, they went above and beyond trying to seal the vapors from coming into the cabin. Job completed in a few hours. Left with a smile, handshake, new seals, and they even replaced the cabin filter per my request. Down the road I went--time to test drive and determine the outcome. Sniff, sniff, what's that smell, the diesel pickup in front of me?--No. Did I put my deodorant on this morning?--Yes. The car that I passed wasn't burning oil? SNIFF, SNIFF:sick:--Dex-cool! Of course--I called my district specialist and left a message to return my call.

I have been doing my own research and I think I found a fix (Plan B)--at least for now.

Plan B:

View attachment 10685

I know how frustrating:blowup: this is, but I am trying to keep a good attitude and a sense of humor. That 2013 black Malibu sure looked nice at the dealership today!
I'd be pretty livid if I was in your position. After all that work, the car still smells of antifreeze? I'm curious to hear what your case specialist says.
 
#45 ·
Well BSM, at least you've proven that the PI fix doesn't work and a real solution has to be created. It must be tough being a guenia pig. Thanks for keeping us in loop through this process. I am dying to see the working solution, as long as it isn't a 2015 Cruze.
 
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