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I apologize if this was covered already in an identical thread...couldn't find it....

I will be having my last free oil change for my Cruze 1.4 L MT shortly. After that, I would like to look at my options for other oils than the standard Gm Dexos.
(For what it is worth, they told me the oil looked good once when I didn't change it after 7000 miles between changes. It was mostly highway driving so Dexos hasn't let me down as far as I can tell.)

1) What are the best oils out there for this engine?
2) Do these better oils cost a lot more?
3) Can I safely run these oils longer in the engine than the Dexos, and if so, will the automatic "oil quality indicator" whatever you call it, still remain accurate when you run something other than Dexos?

thank you,
Joe
 

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I use Pennzoil Ultra Platinum full synthetic. Its a great oil IMO but if you want to go for the best order you some AMSOIL. The AMSOIL is a little more pricey but it holds up for the long haul if you're interested in extended oil changes.
 

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Here is a good place to start for an answer to that question:
http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/10-powertrain/41385-tiered-oils-list-understanding-synthetics.html

The Best oil you could get is likely Amsoil Signature Series. Also the most expensive. Personally, I run Pennzoil Platinum Pure Plus (PPPP). Every spring, Shell does a Spring Synthetics rebate for $10 off a 5 quart jug of PPPP. I stock up for the next year at that time. Hard to beat that deal at ~$12 for 5 quarts after rebate.


EDIT: As for the Oil Life Monitor, you could run PPPP down to 0%. I usually change it around 10-15%. Amsoil can be run longer, I don't have enough experience with it to recommend how much past 0% however. I would change the GM Dexos oil by 25% on the OLM.
 

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I apologize if this was covered already in an identical thread...couldn't find it....

I will be having my last free oil change for my Cruze 1.4 L MT shortly. After that, I would like to look at my options for other oils than the standard Gm Dexos.
(For what it is worth, they told me the oil looked good once when I didn't change it after 7000 miles between changes. It was mostly highway driving so Dexos hasn't let me down as far as I can tell.)

1) What are the best oils out there for this engine?
2) Do these better oils cost a lot more?
3) Can I safely run these oils longer in the engine than the Dexos, and if so, will the automatic "oil quality indicator" whatever you call it, still remain accurate when you run something other than Dexos?

thank you,
Joe
AMSOIL Signature Series is the best oil you can get on the market right now. There are a few other similar oils but they are much more difficult to find and usually more expensive shipped to your door. The only one that comes close for drain interval capability is LiquiMoly Synthoil Longtime Plus, but good luck getting that here in the US. AMSOIL SS is guaranteed for 15,000 miles in the Cruze 1.4T, so the extra price of the oil is covered in the extended drain. The savings in fuel economy take care of the rest, and the oil's ability to transfer heat much better than a group 3 petroleum (such as Pennzoil Platinum/Ultra Platinum) will improve the longevity of the engine and turbo in the long run.

As for what the oil looks like, oil appearance is never an indicator of the oil's condition and remaining life. Heavily oxidized oil will look brand new but will be far thicker in viscosity than required, and you will not know how thick it is at operating temperature unless you can heat it to 212F. By the time you are ready to drain the oil, it has already cooled significantly. An oil that looks dark does not indicate that it requires changing. Diesel truck drivers understand this as they routinely go over 20,000 miles on a change of oil that becomes black within the first 500 miles.

The oil quality indicator (aka oil life monitor) will not adjust based on the oil you use. It assumes you are still using the dexos1 oil. You will have to reset it at the time of a filter change (recommended every 7,500 miles if going 15,000 miles on the oil) without actually changing the oil.

AMSOIL SS is capable of more than 15,000 miles in our cars on the second change with oil analysis under highway driving conditions. 20,000-25,000 miles is not outside of its capable service interval under light driving conditions.

Refer to the tiered oils list as BowtieGuy recommended. If you'd like to read more on the difference between true synthetics such as AMSOIL Signature Series and LiquiMoly Synthoil Longtime, here's a post I wrote on that subject:

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/113-titan-synthetics/87241-case-true-synthetics.html
 

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If you drive a lot of miles like I do the use Amsoil 5w30 SS. CThey will cover the engine if something happens and GM doesn't. Cheapest off the shelf option would be Mobil 1 5w30 in the gallon jug at Walmart.
 

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First post. Love this forum! I just changed oil today with Amsoil Signature 5-30 in my Cruze 1.4T. I purchased a Wix filter (always liked them). I noticed that when I looked at the filter the Chevy dealer used on the last change (assume AC Delco) was different in that the Wix has an anti back flow valve inside where the other one does not. Does this make a difference?
 

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First post. Love this forum! I just changed oil today with Amsoil Signature 5-30 in my Cruze 1.4T. I purchased a Wix filter (always liked them). I noticed that when I looked at the filter the Chevy dealer used on the last change (assume AC Delco) was different in that the Wix has an anti back flow valve inside where the other one does not. Does this make a difference?
Should be fine as long as the filter fits the same way. They should all be a pretty similar design. I believe they did slightly change the design at one point but I don't remember when.

If going 15k miles, remember to change that filter at 7,500.
 

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Disclosure: I am an AMSOIL dealer.

I'll fourth the Amsoil recommendation.

Overall, having run:
The stock recommendation, QS Full syn, Penzoil Platinum, and now AMSOIL Signature Series, the car seems to be responding the best with AMSOIL. Less noise/ticks, smoother accelleration/performance under load. Up until the last year or so, I was generally a Pennzoil Platinum or Ultra guy all the way. But now having sampled AMSOIL in a few of the cars I look after for my family and friends, I'll say it's been one of the best routes I've went. We've done OE and SigSeries so far on the following: Dodge Caravan, Ford CVPI, my Cruze 1.4T, Mazda Miata and have had the best results on the butt dyno with the AMSOIL fluids.

The above is what motivated me to become a dealer.

Anyway. Oil is oil. But as Xtreme has mentioned many times, there are some better than others. And some years ahead of others.

--John
 

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Extreme, the first 32k on my Cruze oil changes were with the GM dealers Dexos 1 at 5k intervals. I have now put in Amsoil SS 5-30. Is there a reason stated that a 15k interval can be used starting with the second change? Thanks!
 

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Don't take the GM Dexos 1 blend below 40% on the OLM (about 6,000 miles).
 

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While I agree Amsoil SS is the best oil for the 1.4T, I disagree with the implication that the engine won't live a long life unless you use it. Any oil listed in Tiers 1 - 4 on the list linked to in post #3 should see this engine to a long service life.

And with Amsoil SS at ~$40-$45 after discount for 5 quarts, its not exactly cheap unless you are comfortable running it for 15k mile intervals. Picking up PPPP for ~$12 after rebate, I can go through 3 oil changes and it is still cheaper than Amsoil SS. Is Amsoil a top-notch oil? Yes. Is there a bit of Amsoil kool-aid drinking on this forum? In the case of engine oil, I say yes.
 

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While I agree Amsoil SS is the best oil for the 1.4T, I disagree with the implication that the engine won't live a long life unless you use it. Any oil listed in Tiers 1 - 4 on the list linked to in post #3 should see this engine to a long service life.

And with Amsoil SS at ~$40-$45 after discount for 5 quarts, its not exactly cheap unless you are comfortable running it for 15k mile intervals. Picking up PPPP for ~$12 after rebate, I can go through 3 oil changes and it is still cheaper than Amsoil SS. Is Amsoil a top-notch oil? Yes. Is there a bit of Amsoil kool-aid drinking on this forum? In the case of engine oil, I say yes.
I guess that depends on your definition of a long life, and not everyone buys an annual supply of oil at a heavily discounted rebate price. If we start throwing rebates into the mix, we may as well not even discuss pricing because those rebates are not always available and not everyone can wait a year to change their oil.

I've had this discussion with people many times before. If I believed it would be cheaper to stock up on rebate discounted oil once a year than to run AMSOIL, I would be doing so in all of my cars. However, I look at other things such as heat transfer, fuel economy, environmental impact, and time investment just to name a few off the top of my head.

Nobody said your engine will give up the ghost by 200k if you don't use AMSOIL. It is simply stated that the vehicle will be more reliable and cheaper to maintain. Let me give you a few examples.

In Harley Davidson motorcycles, our oil runs 20-30 degrees cooler in slow driving conditions. The fact that it transfers heat better is certain. If your turbo housing cracks, you won't blame the lubricant but it is possible that better heat transfer may have prolonged the life of the turbo. Not guaranteed, but possible.

If your turbo fails at 200k miles due excessive to shaft play, you may write it off as the expected life of a turbo. I would call it a premature failure. If the higher volatility causes more frequent PCV failures, you might just call it a poor PCV design and a fact of life. I might call it something that can be prolonged. Of course this engine is far too new to make these statements concretely, but you get where I'm going with it. There are reliability benefits to an engine that runs with less heat and friction. How those benefits would materialize is yet to be determined.

People were using AMSOIL back when it was $5-$6 a quart and conventional was $0.59 a quart because the stack of benefits outweighed the stack of dollar bills, and you can't always put a price on quality. Outside of the savings from extended drain intervals, AMSOIL doesn't compete for price. Even OE is more expensive than most group 3 oils you can get at wally world. AMSOIL competes for the benefits that the oil offers, and in that regard it wins. Since 1972, engines, transmissions, and differentials have run more smoothly, more reliably, and more economically with those oils.

If it doesn't make financial sense to you and/or you plan to dispose of your vehicle long before any problems may pop up, then that's perfectly fine. I'm not saying everyone should buy it or their cars will break.

As for 15k mile intervals, well, there's a lot of Big Oil marketing to fight against there. What the US sees as outrageous, most of Europe sees as standard practice. 10-20 thousand miles is to be expected out of a change of oil.

I don't mind paying the extra $10-$20 over 15,000 miles if it means I change my oil half as often, that most of that is made up in increased fuel economy, and that I have even a chance of reducing my long-term maintenance and repair costs. Not everyone will agree with me, and that's fine.

You chose to use PPPP, and that's fine with me. Have I pressured you to do otherwise?
 

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You keep mentioning increased fuel efficiency. Can you give me personal proof that you saw increased fuel economy in your Cruze since switching to Amsoil?

It's easy to say that Amsoil will make your engine last longer than something like PPPP or even Mobil 1, but there is no proof for the Cruze. Can you point me to one Cruze lubrication related failure(outside of abuse such as going past the drain interval) that wouldn't have occurred with Amsoil? As you said, the arguments you made cannot be concretely made at this time.

Realistically, Amsoil SS may in fact extend the life of the engine/turbocharger. But what does that mean? That the engine may make it to 300k miles instead of 250-275k on PPPP or Mobil 1? The average owner will likely never keep their car that long, making it a moot point.

Notice I mentioned Amsoil SS. Yes, it is my personal opinion that Amsoil SS would be worth the cost if I didn't get my oil at such a discount. Amsoil OE and XL? Not so much for their price.

In conclusion, what I am saying is that Amsoil is not the be all, end all when it comes to engine oil as it is sometimes hyped up to be on this forum. For most people, oils like PPPP, Mobil 1 and even the GM Dexos oil should meet the needs of their engines for their service life.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks for the discussion everyone. Very interesting and some great information I will revisit when the time comes. All the best. Joe
 

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You keep mentioning increased fuel efficiency. Can you give me personal proof that you saw increased fuel economy in your Cruze since switching to Amsoil?

It's easy to say that Amsoil will make your engine last longer than something like PPPP or even Mobil 1, but there is no proof for the Cruze. Can you point me to one Cruze lubrication related failure(outside of abuse such as going past the drain interval) that wouldn't have occurred with Amsoil? As you said, the arguments you made cannot be concretely made at this time.

Realistically, Amsoil SS may in fact extend the life of the engine/turbocharger. But what does that mean? That the engine may make it to 300k miles instead of 250-275k on PPPP or Mobil 1? The average owner will likely never keep their car that long, making it a moot point.

Notice I mentioned Amsoil SS. Yes, it is my personal opinion that Amsoil SS would be worth the cost if I didn't get my oil at such a discount. Amsoil OE and XL? Not so much for their price.

In conclusion, what I am saying is that Amsoil is not the be all, end all when it comes to engine oil as it is sometimes hyped up to be on this forum. For most people, oils like PPPP, Mobil 1 and even the GM Dexos oil should meet the needs of their engines for their service life.
I feel like I have to argue here, and that's not the intention at all.

I cannot give you personal proof because the difference would be very small. I do know that in diesel pickup fleets, AMSOIL tested a 4.5-6.3% fuel economy increase depending on driving conditions. The fact is that I go so long on a change of oil that it is absolutely impossible for me to quantify any benefit due to changes in winter blend fuel and seasonal temperature changes. It would be impossible for anyone to validly perform that test. The fact that I installed a tune on my car shortly before installing that tune only further reinforces it. Since there are fuel economy benefits that have been proven in other engines, one can deduce that there will be a benefit in this application as well. It may not be as large, but if we are to assume the difference is a mere 1%, that in itself will represent a $15 savings over 15,000 miles.

Why are we arguing over preventable failures with the Cruze if I've already noted that the argument cannot be concretely made? What we do know is that the oil has properties that, in theory, will improve the longevity of the component where it is used. If we look at characteristics such as heat transfer, film strength, shear stability, and viscosity stability under temperature extremes, we find a pretty severe performance difference between group 3 and group 4/5 base stocks, and that does not apply just to AMSOIL. Given that, I would speculate the difference to be far more than 25k miles.

AMSOIL OE and XL, just for your own knowledge, was really only created to allow dealers to ease their customers into longer drain intervals and to cater to the "DIFM" (do it for me) oil change market, where we generally beat out Mobil 1 for volume pricing. OE doesn't provide very good value in the DIY segment unless you're driving a Mazda rotary.

I will note that I have greatly reduced the number of promotional posts I make regarding AMSOIL on this forum. For the past 6 months at least, the reports and reviews have come from customers, not from myself. Time will tell whether or not my own speculations are correct. I will not claim something as fact in the absence of concrete data. What I do speculate, however, is based on a year of heavy research and my own studying towards an STLE Certified Lubrication Specialist certification, for what it's worth.
 

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One thing I think we can agree on is that Amsoil SS is the best oil. In fact I may change to Amsoil SS if I stop finding my preferred oil at such a discount.

Once you start looking at Amsoil OE and XL, you may be served better by oils like PPPP and Mobil 1 or others for the price. It is up to each individual to decide what makes the most sense for their given application. Do they need the best? Then go Amsoil SS. Do they just need something that will get their engine to 200k? Then shopping for deals on other oils such as PPPP and Mobil 1 may make more sense in their situation.

The emphasis is that there are a lot of options out there to choose from based on individual needs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
While I agree Amsoil SS is the best oil for the 1.4T, I disagree with the implication that the engine won't live a long life unless you use it. Any oil listed in Tiers 1 - 4 on the list linked to in post #3 should see this engine to a long service life.

And with Amsoil SS at ~$40-$45 after discount for 5 quarts, its not exactly cheap unless you are comfortable running it for 15k mile intervals. Picking up PPPP for ~$12 after rebate, I can go through 3 oil changes and it is still cheaper than Amsoil SS. Is Amsoil a top-notch oil? Yes. Is there a bit of Amsoil kool-aid drinking on this forum? In the case of engine oil, I say yes.
BowtieGuy,

How many miles can one safely/wisely run the PPPP before changing it?

Joe
 

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BowtieGuy,

How many miles can one safely/wisely run the PPPP before changing it?

Joe
7500-8000 or ~8 months.

If you're open to running a 10W-30 instead of a 5W-30 (fine to down around 0 degrees F cranking temps), the Pennzoil Ultra Platinum is one of the very good retail oils you can buy.

Just sent off an oil analysis on the Ultra 10W-30 after 7000 miles, but unfortunately, they no longer make that specific formulation anymore, as it has been replaced by the Ultra Platinum GTL formulation.
 

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If Amsoil is good, Why don't they sell it at any Retail auto parts stores? Its like every thing they sell on Tv..If its so good, it would be for sale in a store.....
 

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If Amsoil is good, Why don't they sell it at any Retail auto parts stores? Its like every thing they sell on Tv..If its so good, it would be for sale in a store.....
It is sold in retail parts stores, if you took the time to go to the ASMOIL.com website and use the "find AMSOIL" button to search for retailers in your area. The reason why they don't do business with big chain stores is because they would undercut dealers in pricing. For example, if AMSOIL was sold at Wally World, it would sell for a few cents above wholesale cost. That would put every dealer out of business, and AMSOIL has been operating for over 40 years based on the independent dealer network. It has worked very well for them as it greatly reduces operating and marketing costs and keeps products affordable. There are a few exceptions.

They used to have a working relationship with Canadian Tire, which recently ended due to pricing adjustments. Canadian Tire wasn't willing to accept the product price increase, which was due to a raw materials cost increase. They used to have a relationship with O'Reilly's Auto Parts, but that also ended for a reason I'm not aware of. It is common to find it at NAPA auto parts and other privately owned auto parts stores where a dealer signed them up with a retail account to order product. Big chains like AutoZone, Advance Auto, and O'Reilly's generally only order from the corporate catalog unless they get district manager approval, and AMSOIL won't sell to those businesses directly.

"Everything that is sold in retail stores must be great" is a very poor argument to make. We can use that fallacy to imply that Motul and Redline products are also not that great since big box stores don't carry them, when in fact they are great products. Then, we can talk about Royal Purple, which all big box stores do carry, and is arguably one of the worst Group 3 "synthetic" oils on the market.
 
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