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See last page for statement from Brian @ VTuner
-iKermit




Brian, I had send You message about a week ago. I had not got any message from You regrading selling My VTuner. Can I sell My VTuner to anybody ? Let Me know, Thanks!

Sorry about the late reply - the cost to add another Cruze to the handheld is $425. The new owner will need to read out their stock calibration and email it to me, then I can provide them with the new calibration files that match their car and add a license to authorize the car to be flashed.


Cheers,

Brian Blair
Vermont Tuning LLC
1806 Sweet Hollow Road
Sheldon, VT 05483
ph: 802-393-7305
Vermont Tuning LLC - Performance Tuning for Saab, Cadillac, Chevrolet
VTunerSaabs - Saab Performance Tuning
facebook.com/VermontTuning

You're saying that I had spend $600 for nothing ? How am I gonna sell to the customers if He want it ? I have to sell like $150 and lost all the rest of the money. Don't make any sense, I had tuner to tune my car and I had only spent $250 once. I don't have to worry to keep paying him. If I sell My Car to another customers and I refer them to tuner then will only cost him $100 dollars cause tuner has exiting tune files in his computer. I know handheld is different but I think it's really ridiculous for the customers has to pay $425 for that handheld. I get nothing out from it but only $150 or less and lost all the rest of the money. My opinions is that is not going to attract customers buying these. Cause I had posted up on CruzeTalk Forums last week and nobody wanted these. Cause They are concern how much will it cost them to have handheld transfer to 1 of them. I know You back for Your company for Your professional work for them but don't You want to attract customers to buy these quickly ? I don't mean to offended You at any ways but that make Me feel SUCKER in a way for spending $600 for that handheld which could had been $300-$350 that is what I had seen for another handheld for another base models.

Your cost was $300 for your initial tune and $165 for the handheld (not very expensive!). You requested a tune update for the ported intake manifold, this was $150 for the custom update. The $165 for your handheld includes a vehicle VIN license that I pay EFILive $125 for, so the actual handheld is only costing you $40. You are not permitted to copy the software to another vehicle, this is my intellectual property just like any commercial software you buy for your computer - do you think you can copy your Windows OS for free to multiple computers - of course not! So the cost for tuning the next car is the same as you paid - $300 for the base tune and $125 for the new VIN license to authorize the handheld to flash the tune to the new VIN.


There are other companies that advertise free re-tunes, but if you dig deeper you will find that customers often wait weeks to months for each new update to test and the quality of the updates is often poor, meaning it could take months to get your car running properly (if ever). We charge a reasonable fee for our time and services and provide fast results. I think most of my customers understand this business model and see the value - I have thousands of customers!


Cheers,


Brian Blair
Vermont Tuning LLC
1806 Sweet Hollow Road
Sheldon, VT 05483
ph: 802-393-7305
Vermont Tuning LLC - Performance Tuning for Saab, Cadillac, Chevrolet
VTunerSaabs - Saab Performance Tuning
facebook.com/VermontTuning

I understand Your point, My Point is very clear. How am I gonna sell this handheld ? Cause You are charging $425 to transfer them. Now I see that You paid $125 for EFIlive for new Vin #, that's what You should be charging them to have it transfer to them for new Vin #. $425 is as close to brand new price. Cause I already have tune files which I can email 1 of them. This is very simple solution instead of them paying $425 will not be a happy customers and I will not be able to sell My handheld at all.

Each new customer must pay to have their car tuned with our software - I do not authorize you you to tune additional cars for free with your handheld. You are not entitled to sell or transfer my software licensed to your car to another car, and the software for your car will not work on another model/year Cruze anyway(each year/model has different software and even sometimes within the same model/year). This is how copyright law works.

Brian Blair
Vermont Tuning LLC
1806 Sweet Hollow Road
Sheldon, VT 05483
ph: 802-393-7305
Vermont Tuning LLC - Performance Tuning for Saab, Cadillac, Chevrolet
VTunerSaabs - Saab Performance Tuning
facebook.com/VermontTuning

Ok, How can I sell that handheld that I have ? If I want to sell that handheld for $150 to somebody and You still gonna charge them $425 anyways that is as close to brand new price. You should be charging them $300 which they already have that handheld that I sold to 1 of them. That's what I am talking about, If You say No then I will have a hard time to sell that handheld that I have. My opinions is that You need to be reasonable with the price by not going too close as brand new price. It gets Me nowhere and expectually for the customers as well.

You are thinking that we want you to sell your handheld - that is not the case. The handheld is intended to stay with the car once we tune it. We want each new customer to purchase a handheld, it is not intended to re-sold. I do not re-sell used electronics, so I do not buy the handhelds back.

Brian Blair
Vermont Tuning LLC
1806 Sweet Hollow Road
Sheldon, VT 05483
ph: 802-393-7305
Vermont Tuning LLC - Performance Tuning for Saab, Cadillac, Chevrolet
VTunerSaabs - Saab Performance Tuning
facebook.com/VermontTuning

This is the last message I send to Him.
Ah, That's Mess Up! I am being completely honest with You here. I got rid of Cruze and somebody else is driving it right now and wondering why this car is fast. That's bad business to be doing with. This is a "Stuck with Business" that can't be sold to another customers for just a handheld. I am telling You that is not business, What is this telling You ? It's a Ripoff and Scam to the customers that They are stuck with and can't sell that handheld to another customers.

This is is something that Cruze owner don't know about. If You are going to keep Your Cruze till it die, Then that's Your choice. If You are not going to keep Your Cruze and wanted to trade Your Cruze few years to get newer or another different kind of car. Then STAY AWAY from VTuner, I don't care how professionals They are. If You buy it from them then You are "Stuck with it Business". I say this is Very Bad Business to be dealt with! Truth to be Told! You have been WARN AT CruzeTalk!
 

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I'm not sure you are aware of it but almost all handheld tuners are "attuned" to your VIN, otherwise what is to stop you from getting one and tuning a dozen different vehicles with it? I don't have VT tuner to pull experience from but it is this way with almost all of them. I know the Diablo tuners (not for cruze) can only put one tune on one vehicle at a time. With those you can detune your car back to default and un-pair the tuner and VIN. Doesn't sound like you did this when selling the car and not sure you can with VT tuners.

This isn't bad practice from Brian, it is smart business. As he stated, he has to pay for a license to give you that tune. I'm not sure what the beef here is other than your misunderstanding.
 

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Lyrical Wordsmith
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As stated above, i do not see a problem... It's a business, and it's his time/knowledge/license/copyright etc...

Put yourself in Brians shoes...
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
What's My Beef here is very simple. I had only used handheld VTuner 2-3 times and it's still like brand new condition. He want customers to buy it brand new which I can't sell that handheld. While I am "Stuck with it Business" when Cruze is already traded in. You say that's smart for business which I say this is a RIPOFF! He could had only charge $300 to have it transfer to new customers for their Vin# if somebody sold them the handheld. That's the point of all of this.
 

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You could have sold the tuner with the car too, detune it if nobody wanted to pay for it. It's simply really silly that you are arguing this. Let's say you are selling a CD that tuned stock radio's into sounding like 2k$ systems and you found someone selling copies of your CD for half the cost, you are telling me you wouldn't have an issue with that?
 

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Lyrical Wordsmith
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So you are telling him how to run his business?

Yel i would also be mad, but if everyone was allowed to do that, he would not be able to run a business, he wouldn't see any tunes if i can just give the buyer of my Cruze the tuner and then he would pass it on, and lend it to people...etc... You ran the risk when you bought it, if you knew you weren't going to keep the Cruze, you should have found a cheaper tune. Same goes with any other mods on the Cruze...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
How can I sold with the car if I traded Cruze in ? Don't anybody have parted out their Car before they sold or traded their car in ?
 

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Lyrical Wordsmith
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This isn't a physical engine modification... This is a software change to the performance of the engine/trans. What you want to do is mend the license right in your favor. You bought it and you acepted that you were the sole user of it and your Cruze, and only that Cruze...

You can't just go and sell it to someone else so they can tune their Cruze. Either way the end customer who gets your handheld, can't tune their Cruze with it. It is specific to your VIN#. Sorry my friend, it is not a rip off...
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
You don't understand My Point has stated very clearly and Yes it's a RIPOFF! The Main Point of all of this is about the handheld. It does not matter about the tune or flash to the different vin#. What matters is that He still charge new customers even if they got the handheld from somebody. Almost like Trifecta "Rent a Cable Core Charge" that's what He should had done. It's better that way instead of selling that handheld for $165 including $300 dollars that's $465 brand new. If somebody already have handheld from somebody then should have charge $300 minus the $165. That's very simple way to do this.
 

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How in the world is any of this VTuners fault.


You're making a "This Guy Sucks Thread" because he won't give you a free tune for another car........ UMMMM news flash he's in the tuning business, if he let's you use your tune file for a bunch of other cars then he makes no money. That's about as retatrded as this thread.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I never said about free tune to another car, You are complete idiot from where You stand in that corner. It's all about "The Handheld" that's what it's all about.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
He could had made "Core Charge for Handheld" like Trifecta did with theirs. He don't have to wait like Trifecta did but better!
 

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Any Idea what it cost to get a vehicle tuned at a dyno shop? usually around $400-500. Your car get's tuned and that's it, they'll usuallyallow for some free tweaks to dial in the tune should it be off a little but that's it. You can't sell that tune back, you're stuck with it.

Guess they're scammers too.
 

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VT certainly does not need a bad Thread Title over this. They have done NOTHING wrong. You have nothing to be upset with, you received what you paid for in full. The tuners/handhelds are not meant to be resold. Period. The tune itself is married to the car VIN #. This is not done to screw you, it is done to protect a product.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I understand that, Why can't He posted in his website ? If I knew this, I would turn meh back on them and go Trifecta. That would had save a lot of money rather than going to VTuner. I don't mean to say but I know most of guys want to do budget build or whatever rather than ditching their money to VTuner.
 
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