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Will be doing front pads and rotors here (have the AC Delco GM OE Pads and Rotors on order) shortly, as it is definitely time to replace them - 100k miles and you have to dig into the pedal pretty good now - the right-front has also started making noise occasionally during braking (rumbling, so it may be slightly "warped"). It's time.

Anyway, I was looking at the torque on the caliper bracket (to the knuckle) and the caliper (to the bracket) on "Auto Repair Source" (formerly AutoMate - both seem to be...less great than the Chilton manual they used to give us free access to), and they really seemed to be confused as they had multiple torque values - some which seemed incredibly high.

Anybody have the Diesel-specific repair procedure from the service manual? I want to make sure I'm torquing these bolts to the proper value.

Thanks!
 

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Anybody have the Diesel-specific repair procedure from the service manual? I want to make sure I'm torquing these bolts to the proper value.
Using the Chiltons on-line, here's what I see. But it doesn't sort brakes by engine RPO (diesel: LUZ). Instead, it uses 3 different brake RPOs I was not familiar with.

2014 Front Brake Caliper Bracket Replacement

15 inch Brake System J67 and J93
front caliper bracket bolts:
74ft-lb/100Nm + an additional 20-30 degrees
guide pin bolts: 21ft-lb/28Nm

J67 BRAKE SYSTEM - POWER, FRT & RR DISC, ABS, 15"
J93 BRAKE SYSTEM - POWER, FRT DISC, RR DRUM, ABS, 15"

16 inch Brake System J60
front caliper bracket bolts:
111ft-lb/150Nm + an additional 15-30 degrees
guide pin bolts: 21ft-lb/28Nm

J60 BRAKE SYSTEM POWER, FRT & RR DISC, ABS, 16"
I agree, the torque numbers for the bracket, 74 and 111 foot-pounds, seem high, but they are consistent with what I've seen on other GM cars, altho the extra 15-30 degrees is new to me (on brakes).

Make sure which RPO - J60, J67, J93 - is on your sticker, and you should be OK. (Hopefully, the diesel uses one of these 3.)

HTH.

Doug

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The '14-15 Diesels have the J60 brakes - that torque value of 111 ft-lb + 15-30 degrees is what I saw in the Auto Repair Source, so I guess that does make sense.

I think my Cobalt's are about 80 or so for the same bolts, but I guess it makes sense that a much larger brake package would be torqued higher.

I agree that the additional degreed step after is not something I have seen before on brakes.
 

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Another thing I noticed: it says to use new caliper bracket bolts (for both the J60 diesel brakes, as well as the non-diesel brakes).
 

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Another thing I noticed: it says to use new caliper bracket bolts (for both the J60 diesel brakes, as well as the non-diesel brakes).
Interesting. I looked for that in the on-line Chiltons. When I see that type of torque spec (eg, 100 foot-pounds + 30°) I usually see instructions to throw away the old bolts and use new ones. But in this case I couldn't find anything to that effect.

Doug

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Yeah, that's where I'm confused.

Looking through some of the 1.4T how-tos here for brakes, nobody seems to be replacing the bolts either. I've never seen the requirement for using new bolts on brakes like this before...this is why I wonder what the service manual says...If the Chilton manual doesn't state to replace the bolts, then that is good enough for me. This "Auto Repair Source" can be a bit questionable compared to Chilton.
 

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Yeah, that's where I'm confused.

Looking through some of the 1.4T how-tos here for brakes, nobody seems to be replacing the bolts either. I've never seen the requirement for using new bolts on brakes like this before...this is why I wonder what the service manual says...If the Chilton manual doesn't state to replace the bolts, then that is good enough for me. This "Auto Repair Source" can be a bit questionable compared to Chilton.
Bad news.

Delving into this deeper, my Haynes manual says to REPLACE the caliper bracket bolts with new ones. I have a hardcopy Chiltons as well, and it also says to REPLACE. Not sure why the on-line Chiltons didn't have that. But I looked for it. I'm sure it will jump out and slap me in the face next time I log in there :(

Sorry for the bum steer.

(BTW, Keep in mind, Haynes is owned by Chiltons, so they should agree.)

Doug

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Hmm...sounds like these might be TTY then. Odd for a brake caliper bracket, IMO...but would mean that they do, in fact, have to be replaced.

I'd need to see if the dealer has these in stock so I can pick them up on my way home. Would like to get these done today - that RF brake sounds gnarly and now you can hear the wear indicator on the brake pad constantly squealing while driving.

I did happen to find this thread, and it sounds like the service manual does not say to replace them?

 

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Hmm...sounds like these might be TTY then. Odd for a brake caliper bracket, IMO...but would mean that they do, in fact, have to be replaced.

I'd need to see if the dealer has these in stock so I can pick them up on my way home. Would like to get these done today - that RF brake sounds gnarly and now you can hear the wear indicator on the brake pad constantly squealing while driving.

I did happen to find this thread, and it sounds like the service manual does not say to replace them?

Besides the dealer, if possible, you might take one of the bolts to a parts store. They may be able to source it at a better price. OTOH, if you can get them at the dealer for 3 bucks per, I wouldn't waste time trying to beat that.

Reading thru that thread, I saw conflicting info in a couple of posts. But I've seen enough today to make me lean towards putting new on. That said, in a pinch, if you have to re-use the old ones, you should be OK for a few days until you can swap them out.

BTW, one of the things I saw in the thread said to use anti-seize on the bolts. Not sure I like that idea, but I'm down here in the sun belt where they don't use much road salt :)

Doug

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Discussion Starter #10
A buddy of mine should be able to check the GM service manual, which hopefully will give us a confirmation on what the techs are told to do...but yeah, if the bolts are cheap, I'll probably just replace 'em.

Anti-seize is definitely something I would not use on a brake bolt...I believe the bolts (assuming it was the correct ones I was looking at) come with red threadlocker on there...so they're supposed to stay in, not be easier to remove...
 

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So apparently these things are an M14 bolt versus the Gas's M12 size...and only one dealership about 20 minutes away (without traffic) has four.

If I found the correct part number online (which has proven to be a difficult task to begin with), they are like...$12 a bolt. That's really a bit absurd...
 

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Yes front caliper bracket bolts are TTY and should not be reused. With that being said I didn’t know that when I replaced my pads and rotors 20,000 miles ago.

I haven’t noticed any issues with my braking at all but I will be going in and replacing the bolts when I get a chance.

what I can’t figure out is why GM decided to do TTY instead of using some loctite on the threads.
 

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Based on the picture I've seen, they have red loctite as well.

It really blows my mind. I've never encountered TTY brake bolts before.

The Gas bolts cost like...$4. The Diesel bolts cost like...$12.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
My buddy just looked the procedure up in the service manual - it does not state that they need to be replaced.

I looked up the Verano (which uses the exact same brakes) procedure in "Auto Repair Source" and it does not mention replacing the bolts - the torque spec/angle is the same.

The inconsistency is alarming - but IMO, the service manual is what I'd base my actions on, since that is what the dealer would do. In this case, they would not replace the bolt, as it is not listed to do so.

Also, one would think ACDelco would have the bolts listed...but they do not...

But still...

This is far too confusing.
 

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The Gas bolts cost like...$4. The Diesel bolts cost like...$12.
For reference, when you get a chance, can you post the part numbers you found?

The closest I've come to an OE part number is AC-Delco 18K17016 for the rear bracket bolts (gas and diesel) ; only 3rd party part numbers for the fronts: CARLSON H849 (gas), CARLSON H830 (diesel).

And danged if any vendor of these lists the bolt specs. Under "specifications", they all say "bolt" :)

If you can wait for delivery, Rockauto shows $3.56 for the H830, and that may be for a pair, but it's not clear. Even if it's only for one, two will be $7 plus shipping, which is stupidly high @ 8 bucks. It doubled when I bumped the quantity to 2 - I expected a slight increase, but not 2x.

But you can always call and verify the actual quantity in the package. I bring this up because, poking around, I did see them sold in pairs.

Doug

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