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Add to this that it seems a lot of people only pay attention to the hwy MPG and then complain when they don't see that all the time. When I had my Cruze, I used Fuelly and entered every fill-up from the first one. My average MPG over a year and 12,000 miles was 30.3 MPG. My daily commute is around 90% highway, so the average seemed fairly reasonable compared to the estimate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Add to this that it seems a lot of people only pay attention to the hwy MPG and then complain when they don't see that all the time.
Yep. Hence my complaint at http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/27-f...s-40-mpg-claims-grab-headlines-miss-mark.html. It's related to the way cars can be legally advertised.

As I posted there:
This is one of my biggest pet peeves of car advertising. If it were up to me, it would be illegal to advertise only the highest number from EPA estimates. They ought to only be allowed to do one of these:
- advertise combined mileage
- advertise all three figures: city/highway, combined w/equal prominence. None of the current shenanigans where only the highway # is mentioned aloud or the highway # is in a large font while the other numbers (if present at all) are in a tiny font at the bottom of the ad.
Not everyone works and lives on a highway and is able to to do highway speeds for most/all of their commute. Go to LA, SF Bay Area or the Seattle area and try going in the same direction as rush hour traffic during rush hour. It's a fricking parking lot and a lot closer to city driving.

Then there's the ton of idling while waiting at traffic lights getting to the highway and once off it.
 

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The EPA doesn't get full EPA highway ratings for cars with very high gearing. A number of Eco Cruze 6speed manual drivers, who are able to drop rpms below 1900 at 60mph in 6th gear, have stated how easy it is to exceed the EPA 42mpg rating. I see the same results for the 2012 Nissan Versa sedan w/CVT which can drop rpms below 1900 at 60mph. For people who are highway traveling at or a bit above 60mph, many Versa drivers report mpg in the mid-40's & even higher, tho the EPA only gives it 38mpg on the highway.
 

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The EPA doesn't get full EPA highway ratings for cars with very high gearing. A number of Eco Cruze 6speed manual drivers, who are able to drop rpms below 1900 at 60mph in 6th gear, have stated how easy it is to exceed the EPA 42mpg rating. I see the same results for the 2012 Nissan Versa sedan w/CVT which can drop rpms below 1900 at 60mph. For people who are highway traveling at or a bit above 60mph, many Versa drivers report mpg in the mid-40's & even higher, tho the EPA only gives it 38mpg on the highway.
So true... From my experience with my ECO MT I need to be doing 75-77 MPH to get 42 MPG in 6th gear. Any slower and I get better MPG. 65 gives me around 48 MPG and short testing at 55 resulted in something over 50 MPG.

It's time to change the EPA testing once again, only this time actually take the cars out on the road for a couple of tanks - one tank in mixed rush hour/non-rush hour city driving and one tank on the interstate at, say 70 MPH. Put 10 gallons of gas in the car, carry a spare full one gallon jerry can and run the car until it runs out of gas. Divide miles/10 and you have your new numbers. I picked 70 MPH from looking at Map of maximum posted speed limits on rural interstates.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
It's time to change the EPA testing once again, only this time actually take the cars out on the road for a couple of tanks - one tank in mixed rush hour/non-rush hour city driving and one tank on the interstate at, say 70 MPH. Put 10 gallons of gas in the car, carry a spare full one gallon jerry can and run the car until it runs out of gas. Divide miles/10 and you have your new numbers. I picked 70 MPH from looking at Map of maximum posted speed limits on rural interstates.
The big problem with that is it's nowhere near reproducible. There are way too many variables such as how it's being driven, traffic, weather conditions, winds, elevation changes, etc. Then you also have the problem where doing such speeds (say 70 mph) might be illegal in that automaker's location.

When I was living in WA state, the highways I usually drove on had speed limits of 60 mph (and people drive very slow there). You had to go somewhat far away from major cities to have limits higher than that.

Per Speed limits by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, the max speed limit in Japan (for example) is 100 km/h or ~62 mph. 1000 mile tank highway challenge by Japanese hybrid drivers | Page 2 | PriusChat (ken1784 lives in Japan) says:
Have you ever driven on Japanese highway?
Do you know the speed limit on the most mountain area is 80km/h in Japan?

If the test isn't reproducible/has way too much variation, there can be considerable dispute between the EPA and the automaker as to who is "right".


 

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The big problem with that is it's nowhere near reproducible. There are way too many variables such as how it's being driven, traffic, weather conditions, winds, elevation changes, etc. Then you also have the problem where doing such speeds (say 70 mph) might be illegal in that automaker's location.

When I was living in WA state, the highways I usually drove on had speed limits of 60 mph (and people drive very slow there). You had to go somewhat far away from major cities to have limits higher than that.

Per Speed limits by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, the max speed limit in Japan (for example) is 100 km/h or ~62 mph. 1000 mile tank highway challenge by Japanese hybrid drivers | Page 2 | PriusChat (ken1784 lives in Japan) says:

If the test isn't reproducible/has way too much variation, there can be considerable dispute between the EPA and the automaker as to who is "right".
OK - use 65 MPH. With the exception of Hawaii, all states allow 65 MPH on the rural freeway during the day. 65 is also the max posted speed limit on a lot of state highways as well. Since all cars will do better as you slow down towards 45, the MPG reported at 65 will be less than what will be seen at lower highway speeds. The current tests make a huge assumption about how transmissions are geared; assumptions that are no longer valid for the true 40 MPG and above vehicles. Open road tests are repeatable and don't make any assumptions about the gearing or aerodynamics. Car and Driver, Road and Track, and Motortrend repeat them all the time with consistent results. When these three magazines do city testing, they even describe their test route so you can compare the test route to your own normal routes. Also, during these tests, the test driver needs to jackrabbit start and stay on the gas until the last possible second before stopping in order to emulate 90% of American drivers.

As for MPG advertising, you're absolutely correct that the current law allows for misleading advertising. It should require automakers to provide both the city and highway numbers and pricing for the vehicle being advertised. For example, no more advertising the Cruze ECO MT 42 MPG Highway and then listing the Cruze LS's pricing. Dump the combined MPG number on the window sticker is completely useless because it makes a huge assumption about the mix of city/highway driving that very few people match. Since most driving is commuting, the mix of city/highway driving for the average driver is controlled by the mix in their daily commute. Mine is mostly rural highway and freeway/interstate with the lowest speed limit once I leave my neighborhood being 45 - definitely not the mix the EPA uses to compute the combined MPG number. I know other people have almost exclusively city commutes and their MPG will be much closer to, if not lower than the EPA city MPG estimate.

Based on what you said about Washington state, I would say it's a toss up as to which state has the most annoyingly slow below posted speed limit drivers, Washington or Maine. I always figured the lobster on the Maine license plate was a warning that the car would crawl along the road.
 

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Based on what you said about Washington state, I would say it's a toss up as to which state has the most annoyingly slow below posted speed limit drivers, Washington or Maine.
Washington state is America's Shangri-la. It is good to slow down & drink long the beauty of the glorious landscapes into your soul.
 

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Washington state is America's Shangri-la. It is good to slow down & drink long the beauty of the glorious landscapes into your soul.
Pull over and get out of the travel lanes then. Colorado has a lot of small pull offs for just this very reason.
 

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Pull over and get out of the travel lanes then. Colorado has a lot of small pull offs for just this very reason.
Its good to do that too. I've walked & hiked tens of thousands of miles through the Shangri -la's of America. I've traveled slowly through the Shangri-la's of America too. You should too. Slow down, ya move too fast. You got to make..... the mornin' last. Yeah, Washington state is like that. Yeah, it is.
 
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