[H3LLON3ARTH]

looks really nice

 

[Mick]

Nice wheels.
I just noticed that I may have to go bigger though... D***!

 

[Moose]

Nice wheels.
I just noticed that I may have to go bigger though... D***!

Once I drop her down, It will be perfect think. I will upload when i do!

 

[XtremeRevolution]

I think the ride height is just fine. I wouldn't drop it if I were you, too many downfalls, including reduced fuel economy, reduced ride quality, compromised suspension geometry, voided warranty, and so on. Find a set of the RS/Eco springs if you do want to drop it a bit.

The rims are a bit too open for my tastes, but they do look good.

 

[Moose]

I think the ride height is just fine. I wouldn't drop it if I were you, too many downfalls, including reduced fuel economy, reduced ride quality, compromised suspension geometry, voided warranty, and so on. Find a set of the RS/Eco springs if you do want to drop it a bit.

The rims are a bit too open for my tastes, but they do look good.

That is true, but even still i do find the Stock springs way to soft and bouncy, way to much vertical movement. Wouldn't an alignment correct any problems with geometry? it is only an inch right? I heard it only voids suspension warranty, is that correct?

ps. i love the open look

 

[XtremeRevolution]

That is true, but even still i do find the Stock springs way to soft and bouncy, way to much vertical movement. Wouldn't an alignment correct any problems with geometry? it is only an inch right? I heard it only voids suspension warranty, is that correct?

ps. i love the open look

If you like it, that's all that matters.

Its more than just alignment. You can correct alignment, but it won't be the same. Our cars are designed to have a certain dynamic camber when the suspension compresses. I'll try to explain.

Observe this image of a typical McPherson strut:

What you're looking for is the angle between the control arm and the strut itself. Now, what happens to the angle of the wheel relative to the road when the spring gets compressed? In this example, you get negative camber; the tire will be angled inward in order to stay planted on the road while the body of the car rolls to that side.

Now, what happens when you lower the car an inch and adjust static camber to keep the wheel aligned while stationary? You increase the angle between the strut and the control arm. You will now have less or no negative camber when the strut is compressed. Extreme circumstances will actually have you getting positive camber. If you can imagine a greater than 90 degree angle between the strut and the control arm on a heavily lowered car, your dynamic camber will turn positive when you're cornering hard, which will severely compromise your cornering traction. I doubt this would be the case for the Cruze, but I hope you get the idea now.

It does only void suspension warranty, but it may also prematurely wear your shocks. For my 95 Regal (1st gen w-body), the factory replacement KYB GR2 shocks hold up excellently with up to 400lb springs on lowered suspensions. For my wife's 2000 Regal (2nd gen w-body, same as grand prix, monte carlo, etc.), you can't lower it without needing KYB AGX adjustable shocks because the any well designed lowering spring will have you blowing shocks in as little as 25k miles. They simply don't last long on those cars.

How long do the factory shocks on the Cruze last with lowered springs? I can't say as nobody has driven one long enough to put it to the test.

If you have money to burn on suspension upgrades, I'd look at the Ultra Racing strut tower bars and lower chassis reinforcement bars.

 

[boats4life]

If you have money to burn on suspension upgrades, I'd look at the Ultra Racing strut tower bars and lower chassis reinforcement bars.

:sigh: I completely agree with this. Wont help for lowering, but they will firm up the Cruze more than you can imagine. I only have two so far and I will DEFINITELY be getting the rest. As for the lowering, wouldn't a camber kit fix the issue?

 

[XtremeRevolution]

:sigh: I completely agree with this. Wont help for lowering, but they will firm up the Cruze more than you can imagine. I only have two so far and I will DEFINITELY be getting the rest. As for the lowering, wouldn't a camber kit fix the issue?

A camber kit fixes only static camber, not dynamic camber. To fix issues with dynamic camber, you need either strut tower camber plates, balljoint spacers, or a relocation of the control arm-to-subframe mounts. The idea is to keep the strut to control arm ratio the same.

Most people who care about this are probably racing or autocrossing, so they'll have custom coilovers with custom spherical bearing or polyurethane mounts with camber adjustment grooves. Something like this:

It's never quite as simple as just throwing some lowering springs on your car. There's always a compromise.

 

[Moose]

If you like it, that's all that matters.

Its more than just alignment. You can correct alignment, but it won't be the same. Our cars are designed to have a certain dynamic camber when the suspension compresses. I'll try to explain.

Observe this image of a typical McPherson strut:

What you're looking for is the angle between the control arm and the strut itself. Now, what happens to the angle of the wheel relative to the road when the spring gets compressed? In this example, you get negative camber; the tire will be angled inward in order to stay planted on the road while the body of the car rolls to that side.

Now, what happens when you lower the car an inch and adjust static camber to keep the wheel aligned while stationary? You increase the angle between the strut and the control arm. You will now have less or no negative camber when the strut is compressed. Extreme circumstances will actually have you getting positive camber. If you can imagine a greater than 90 degree angle between the strut and the control arm on a heavily lowered car, your dynamic camber will turn positive when you're cornering hard, which will severely compromise your cornering traction. I doubt this would be the case for the Cruze, but I hope you get the idea now.

It does only void suspension warranty, but it may also prematurely wear your shocks. For my 95 Regal (1st gen w-body), the factory replacement KYB GR2 shocks hold up excellently with up to 400lb springs on lowered suspensions. For my wife's 2000 Regal (2nd gen w-body, same as grand prix, monte carlo, etc.), you can't lower it without needing KYB AGX adjustable shocks because the any well designed lowering spring will have you blowing shocks in as little as 25k miles. They simply don't last long on those cars.

How long do the factory shocks on the Cruze last with lowered springs? I can't say as nobody has driven one long enough to put it to the test.

If you have money to burn on suspension upgrades, I'd look at the Ultra Racing strut tower bars and lower chassis reinforcement bars.

Awesome thanks! Yah i knew that they would work extra hard on the shocks, but that was just a price i was willing to pay. I dont actually drive the car that much, so i am not worried about it to much, i have had the car for 7 months and only put on 3500kms (2174 miles)

 

[XtremeRevolution]

Awesome thanks! Yah i knew that they would work extra hard on the shocks, but that was just a price i was willing to pay. I dont actually drive the car that much, so i am not worried about it to much, i have had the car for 7 months and only put on 3500kms (2174 miles)

In the end, its your decision and your money. I'm just here to let you know what you're getting into and give you all the facts.

ccasion14:

 

[boats4life]

I'm aiming for coilovers, especially if I end up with 18s instead of 20s. Plus I'd need a good set of coilovers for autoX.

 

[XtremeRevolution]

I'm aiming for coilovers, especially if I end up with 18s instead of 20s. Plus I'd need a good set of coilovers for autoX.

Sounds like you'd go lower than what people typically would. I hope you understand the importance of dynamic camber now. If you want your car to handle like its on rails and keep 100% of that tire tread planted on the ground, you're going to need coilovers with camber adjustments on the mounts.

 

[H3LLON3ARTH]

Coilover should still eork with 20s

h3llion

 

[H3LLON3ARTH]

Sounds like you'd go lower than what people typically would. I hope you understand the importance of dynamic camber now. If you want your car to handle like its on rails and keep 100% of that tire tread planted on the ground, you're going to need coilovers with camber adjustments.

I have ti disagree if you want the beat handaling then negative camber is the way to go. The way that works is manuverability is greater if your tires are camber. Look at nascar for example if there camber were to were more tire was in the ground no way could they take that embanked turn at the speeds they do. Look up racing camber specs on any wtcc btcc or even scca cars there front tires are far from being flat.

h3llion

 

[H3LLON3ARTH]

You will loose control with high speeds but gain entry into turns proven by every racing team I have ever seen runs negative camber

h3llion

 

[XtremeRevolution]

I have ti disagree if you want the beat handaling then negative camber is the way to go. The way that works is manuverability is greater if your tires are camber. Look at nascar for example if there camber were to were more tire was in the ground no way could they take that embanked turn at the speeds they do. Look up racing camber specs on any wtcc btcc or even scca cars there front tires are far from being flat.

h3llion

You will loose control with high speeds but gain entry into turns proven by every racing team I have ever seen runs negative camber

h3llion

What are you going on about? I never said you didn't want Negative camber. In fact, I tried to stress the importance of negative camber and to stress that you will lose some of that negative camber with lowered springs if you don't have camber adjustments. The reason why people with lowered cars and factory suspensions run negative static camber is because they fubared their suspension geometry when they lowered their car and they need a way to keep their car handling properly in the corners. Purpose-built race cars are a different story.

Look up what I've actually written and then respond. Not trying to be rude, seriously, but I'm way ahead of you there buddy.

For Boats and the OP, here's an article that explains what I've been trying to say:

Suspension Geometry - Sport Compact Car Magazine

And here's the image from that article that demonstrates the change in control arm-to-strut angle with a lowered car and it's consequential effect on dynamic camber.

 

[H3LLON3ARTH]

So how is it possible to have negative camber abd 100% ture tread at tge same time not possible

h3llion

 

[H3LLON3ARTH]

And so your saying camber is how much the strut is inward towards the vehicle.

h3llion

 

[XtremeRevolution]

So how is it possible to have negative camber abd 100% ture tread at tge same time not possible

h3llion

Think about it for a second. Negative camber is camber relative to the car. Tread is relative to the ground. When your suspension compresses, your camber turns negative. When is this relevant? When we're taking a corner. What happens when we take a corner? The car rolls into the turn, which is when the suspension compresses. The angle of the car to the ground is no longer parallel. Your negative camber just allowed you to maintain 100% tire traction in that corner.