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Discussion Starter #21
GM sold many of these diesel engines overseas, and with the global market and internet I'm not concerned about finding parts..
This is probably accurate. I hadn't thought about it because I know GM made changes (for emissions) to the engine to bring it to the USA. Some article mentioned fast-heating ceramic glow plugs but when I looked at parts for the engine in Europe they are basically all using ceramic glow plugs because it's the rare case where a new technology lasts longer and does better than the older steel glow plugs.
 

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There were 2 different diesel engines used in Australia, 2009-2011 was a 2.0l single belt driven cam 4V engine with 110kw (147hp) and 320nm (236f/i) of torque and from 2011 on a 2.0l duel cam chain driven VVT engine was used, with 320kw (161hp) and 360nm (266f/l) of torque. Both are different to the US engine, also the 6T45 transmission is used.
 

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2014 Cruze Diesel, 2007 Cobalt, 1981 Camaro Z28, 2017 Volt
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Confession time: Does anyone other than me wish they bought a gasoline Cruze?

A: No
Agreed, though we both have 1st gens. I haven't driven a 2nd gen CTD to compare.

I do hate the AF40-6, though.
 

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I've been very happy with my diesel so far. I briefly considered buying a gas burner, but I kept reading internet horror stories about having to run 93 octane or they constantly puke pistons. Any truth to that, or did someone figure out what was causing it?

Around here 93 is normally 10-30 cents more than diesel. I see people comparing the gas engine's 40mpg highway numbers to the diesel all the time, but I normally get 40-42mpg around town in my car. I can spend hours idling with the air conditioning on and still get a tank average of 38mpg city driving. Flat road on the interstate and I average 62-65mpg at 70mph. Mountainous areas with large elevation changes still get 51mpg at 80mph.

I never really cared about the performance aspect of the Cruze. My other seven cars are all modified eight cylinders with various power adders (stroker/nitrous/turbo/supercharger). Now that I think about it, my motorcycle has almost the same size engine as the gas burner Cruze, gets about 50mpg if you stay out of the throttle, and actually makes more horsepower. heh..

Chad
 

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I get that weird price inversion where I live only on rare occasions. Diesel is always higher than gas here and it's multiple excuses throughout the year:
Fall: Farmers are harvesting so demand for diesel is high!
Winter: Heating oil demand is up so demand for diesel is high!
Spring: Farmers are tilling and planting so demand for diesel is high!
Summer: Farmers are doing, uh, stuff. It's priced higher because screw you!

There are two fuel stations that fight a price war on a two-week cycle. It drops by cents each day over two weeks and then there is a huge, major employer in town that on payday weekend every gas station in town shoots prices up by at least 20¢ a gallon when that payroll hits.
Also, the taxes on Diesel is higher that Gasoline, in most areas.. which contributes to the price. This is factored in because virtually all heavy trucks are diesel (States note that such heavy vehicles do most of the road damage, thus tax them to pay for repairs, makes sense I guess)... ever wonder why they don't go with a gasoline engine in the HD applications? In any case, there are places where Diesel is consistently cheaper.. CA for example, when I take trips there the Diesel always seems to be much cheaper than Gasoline, I think that is due to CA crazy in taxes.. but it goes to show that there is no reason Diesel has to be more expensive, it can and does vary.
 

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I've been very happy with my diesel so far. I briefly considered buying a gas burner, but I kept reading internet horror stories about having to run 93 octane or they constantly puke pistons. Any truth to that, or did someone figure out what was causing it?

Around here 93 is normally 10-30 cents more than diesel. I see people comparing the gas engine's 40mpg highway numbers to the diesel all the time, but I normally get 40-42mpg around town in my car. I can spend hours idling with the air conditioning on and still get a tank average of 38mpg city driving. Flat road on the interstate and I average 62-65mpg at 70mph. Mountainous areas with large elevation changes still get 51mpg at 80mph.

I never really cared about the performance aspect of the Cruze. My other seven cars are all modified eight cylinders with various power adders (stroker/nitrous/turbo/supercharger). Now that I think about it, my motorcycle has almost the same size engine as the gas burner Cruze, gets about 50mpg if you stay out of the throttle, and actually makes more horsepower. heh..

Chad
Yeah I think the distinction between achieving a certain fuel economy on the highway and averaging it is important. I know the gas Cruzes can achieve 40 mpg (or even more if you're a good hypermiler), but my worst tank so far has been 43 mpg. My numbers are similar to Chad's ... on the highway I see 60-65 going 70 mph ... and if we're talking about what the car can achieve, I see plenty of chunks of 70 mpg. My best tank was 66 mpg, and that included stopping in the city of Boston in the middle of it. So if we're talking about what each car can achieve, in my experience at least, we're not talking about the diesels doing 10 mpg better than the gas ... we're talking about them doing 25 mpg better. Now, I recognize that that's a limited comparison because we're only talking about numbers on the highway. I guess if you want to compare a gas Cruze's mixed number to a diesel's, the gap would likely narrow, not to mention the added probability of trouble with a diesel that doesn't get enough highway. But I think it's fair to say a lot of us bought ours for the highway prowess, and there, there are advantages ... especially for those of us who live where the gas vs. diesel price gap is not as severe. I knew what diesel cost when I bought the car, and the fuel economy exceeded my expectations. So no I am not personally disappointed.
 

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The aftermarket delivers for products that are either:
1. Widely available, like a Volvo 240, or;
2. Expensive and collectible, like a McLaren F1.

If you're Jay Leno and own a McLaren F1, sure, you can afford to send that car to the single USA-based McLaren mechanic in Philadelphia who can drop the engine to do the 5-year maintenance overhaul. $10 million dollar car and only 100 of them made? Sure, the aftermarket will support it because the rich owners can/will pay.

If you own a pedestrian car like a Volvo 240 where there are millions on the road, you can probably buy every part you need to overhaul the engine. And it's simple enough to do in your driveway without dropping the engine out of the car!

But how many vehicles did GM sell with this engine in the USA? Including a couple years of SUVs, did the number sold exceed 20,000? They were languishing on dealer lots without any advertising to sell them. GM yanked the engine from the SUV lineup for the 2020 model year because they weren't selling.
Chrysler sold 16,000 Jeep Liberty CRDs between 2005 and mid-2006 in North America, and that number may be an overestimate. They were basically a "testing the water" car that they had no real interest in selling or servicing. It had a VM Motori drivetrain that at the time nothing else in the US had. While they did develop a niche, they are neither valuable nor collectible. Yet for the most part the aftermarket is loaded for them. I can also get parts easily for my 87 Mercedes which they sold 2,500 of here total (and despite the brand it is not valuable). I can get aftermarket parts for my Peugeot here, other that two kind of oddball things I had to get from France. I realize with the real old cars it's not the greatest comparison because they are simple enough that it's easier to find shared parts across models, or improvise if needed. I guess you could say for the Jeep, the offroading aspect puts it in a niche with a healthier aftermarket in general. So yes I do worry about the future of parts for the Cruze but less so because of the lack of production numbers and more because of the lack of culture around them and GM's bad track record with parts for anything. But in general there are a lot of nonvaluable, low production cars that have surprisingly good aftermarket support. I would also hope that the availability in other markets will help in that regard, even if some of the really specific emissions stuff might be tough. Part of me is tempted to just order $2k of emissions stuff from GM now and shelf it so I have my own NOS stash.

I'd love to know how many they actually sold, of each generation of Cruze, of the SUVs, and how the production was split sedan vs hatch and auto vs manual. I'm sure it's super low, though funnily within a two-mile radius of my house I have seen (not counting mine) two Gen 2 diesel sedans (one today actually!), two diesel Equinoxs, and three Gen 1 diesel sedans. I think diesel is more popular in my area than average though ... there's also a twin Jeep CRD to mine I see here and there a couple miles from me.
 

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No, it's got 240 ft/lbs of torque. Everyone talks horsepower but torque is the number that matters. Besides, I bought the thing for fuel economy not raw speed, if I wanted that I would have gotten a GTI.
 

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I have checked my diesel engine temperature compared to my daughter's 1.6T petrol Cruze and it runs at 80-85C whilst the petrol Cruze runs at 105C. In F terms this is a difference of around 35F and I believe is why the diesel has less cooling system issues.
 

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I've been very happy with my diesel so far. I briefly considered buying a gas burner, but I kept reading internet horror stories about having to run 93 octane or they constantly puke pistons. Any truth to that, or did someone figure out what was causing it?

Around here 93 is normally 10-30 cents more than diesel. I see people comparing the gas engine's 40mpg highway numbers to the diesel all the time, but I normally get 40-42mpg around town in my car. I can spend hours idling with the air conditioning on and still get a tank average of 38mpg city driving. Flat road on the interstate and I average 62-65mpg at 70mph. Mountainous areas with large elevation changes still get 51mpg at 80mph.

I never really cared about the performance aspect of the Cruze. My other seven cars are all modified eight cylinders with various power adders (stroker/nitrous/turbo/supercharger). Now that I think about it, my motorcycle has almost the same size engine as the gas burner Cruze, gets about 50mpg if you stay out of the throttle, and actually makes more horsepower. heh..

Chad
To be fair motorcycle engines are relatively low feature and inefficient. Displacement just isn’t the denominator anymore so you have modern natural aspirated 3.6Ls outperforming 6.0Ls. However both engines are actually physically the same size.

Even with motorcycles displacement is becoming somewhat ambiguous now that variable timing and better oil management is becoming more common.
 

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No I don't. I had a chevy sonic with the same 1.4 liter turbo. Underpowered and tons of turbo lag. The cruze is a heavier vehicle. My diesel cruze has tons of torque and acceleration over the Sonic. I can't imagine how lame the cruze is with a 1.4 liter gasoline engine is.
I like my cruze diesel so much that I also have a Colorado diesel.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
ever wonder why they don't go with a gasoline engine in the HD applications?
It's making a comeback. Ford's new 7.3 gasoline engine is specifically designed for HD applications where buyers don't want or need to spend $10,000 for a diesel engine option.
 

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I live in Central Illinois. It is FLAT. How are you achieving fuel economy 20% greater than I can with the same conditions?
I shouldn't speak for someone else, but I'm assuming he's talking about what it can achieve on extended highway runs. I have seen those numbers on road trips for full tanks (and if you trust the DIC, see them all the time for limited stretches). But no I don't see them for a normal tank average. I'm not sure 100% flat is necessarily optimal, though I've never really had the chance to try. My two road trips (which were admittedly ages ago when the car was newish, so who knows if I could duplicate now) were both pretty hilly and one had a decent chunk of mountains. Even though they were out and back to the same point, I think the car gains from downhill more than it is hurt from uphill. One of these days I'd love to take it cross country and see what it does in a day of flat roads ... logically you'd think it would be better, but I'm not sure.
 

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One thing to keep in mind, the Glorious perfect built car, they are out there. Fluids make a difference, cetane improver makes a difference, friction improvers make a difference at least for me and my application. Tires, tire pressure and alignment can all make a big difference Weight makes a massive difference. I am almost 300 lbs there is no way I will get the same mileage as a 100 lb person, and probably the biggest of all driver style do you really know how to get the most out of your mileage.
 

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It's making a comeback. Ford's new 7.3 gasoline engine is specifically designed for HD applications where buyers don't want or need to spend $10,000 for a diesel engine option.
When I say HD, I speak of Semi's, school busses, etc. Sure there are some Class A Motorhomes still going with gasoline V10s and large V8s, but at about 6 MPG also. The Diesel can get close to double that.

From experience, my Gasoline 2WD 1/2 ton Chevy ext cab SB truck towing a 5000lb RV TT got about 9MPG (unloaded it did about 20MPG, it was a work truck, and 5 spd manual). When I went Diesel, the 3/4 ton, 4WD, crew cab, LB Duramax 6.6L Diesel, a truck at least 2000lbs heavier than the gas 1/2 ton.. I got an easy 15MPG with that towing the same trailer, at HIGHER speeds (the 1/2 ton could barely maintain 65 MPG, and with a headwind could not quite get there). So in that case you are talking over 50% improved MPG.. that is not insignificant, now granted that was the 4.8l LS V8 (1999) with port injection, a modern DI engine will do a bit better, but it's not possible to close that gap.

Sure, the cost of a Diesel engine has gone up dramatically, in no small part due to extreme expense and warranty claims due to emmissions garbage that is put on which does not work well with all driving patterns.. use a diesel for frequent short drives and lots of idle.. like in frequent stop and go traffic, and bad things are bound to happen with the emmissions, though they have improved somewhat, but at a great cost.

The fact remains, no matter how efficent the new direct injection gas engines become, they still use fuel that is 20% less energy by volume over diesel, that is just a scientific fact. They are also having all kinds of new issues on direct injections gasoline engines, like intake valve deposits and blockage.. a problem new since only air passes with DI, where before it was kept clean by detergents in the fuel. Then of course you have cases like the blown pistons on many LE2 engines, they are pushing limits, and when you lean out that much, all while trying to say the car can run on 87Octane.. bad things seem to be a near inevitable outcome... and you can bet they figure most will occur AFTER the waranty expires.

When you see a fleet of semi's running gasoline engines, let me know.. somehow I don't see that happening.. though I can see some local delivery trucks going electric... because in a local delivery with lots of stop and go.. that could become economically viable over any ICE engine in the near term.. but I just don't see a switch back to gasoline engine in large trucks.
 

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One thing to keep in mind, the Glorious perfect built car, they are out there. Fluids make a difference, cetane improver makes a difference, friction improvers make a difference at least for me and my application. Tires, tire pressure and alignment can all make a big difference Weight makes a massive difference. I am almost 300 lbs there is no way I will get the same mileage as a 100 lb person, and probably the biggest of all driver style do you really know how to get the most out of your mileage.
It's interesting you mention weight because I always wonder about that factor. I weigh 110 pounds and while I doubt 20 pounds makes a difference, I am sure 100-200 pounds does. I am guessing I am one of the smallest drivers reporting numbers on these and I don't use haul around much or have passengers. I do also keep my tire pressure on the high side for summer. I only tried cetane improver for the first time this month, but I think the fuels in my area are probably pretty good already compared to some in other people's areas. So no doubt I don't think we can all expect the same numbers.
 

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It's making a comeback. Ford's new 7.3 gasoline engine is specifically designed for HD applications where buyers don't want or need to spend $10,000 for a diesel engine option.
"The 7.3-liter engine in Super Duty pickup cranks out best-in-class gas V8 output of 430 horsepower at 5,500 rpm and best-in-class torque of 475 ft.-lb. at 4,000 rpm. "


For comparison, my 2009 Dodge Cummins, stock was 350HP at 3030RPM, and a flat torque of 610 (650 for the AT, mines a manual) from 1500RPM to redline.. with a mild tune I can go well over 430HP and stay well below 4000RPM, and push the torque to 1000Ft-lbs (I already upgraded the clutch to handle it if I ever felt I needed it, though it's not likely). The new Diesels are getting numbers way above those for this 7.3l engine... and I'd really like to see the MPG numbers.. when you figure engine displacement, and those much higher RPMS to get power an torque needed to tow or haul heavy loads.. you know the MPG is going to suffer. It's just a mathematical reality. A gasoline engine looks to maintain a constant air to fuel ratio, so high displacement, high RPM, mean high fuel burn rate... it's inevitable.
 

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I live in Central Illinois. It is FLAT. How are you achieving fuel economy 20% greater than I can with the same conditions?
Here is what I got this morning on my drive to work. It's a 48 mile trip that has major elevation changes the first half and is then relatively flat on the back half. I pull out onto the highway and set the cruise control to 60mph for about five miles. Then slow down to 50mph to go up, around, and back down a small mountain. The next 20 miles are all interstate with the cruise control set on 75mph. The last 15-20 miles are pretty flat and I have the cruise set on 60-70mph.

That trip average is very consistent. On a bad wind and weather day it's usually no lower than 58mpg. The absolute worst I've ever seen is 55mpg for my work commute because of traffic. Last week I drove 650 miles on a tank before the low fuel light came on. The pump clicked off at 11.2 gallons for $20 and some change. That included my weekly 500 mile work commute, idling in a drive through for breakfast five mornings, driving to lunch five days idling in a drive through, and at least 100 miles of city driving over the weekend.

287035


Chad
 

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Discussion Starter #40
"The 7.3-liter engine in Super Duty pickup cranks out best-in-class gas V8 output of 430 horsepower at 5,500 rpm and best-in-class torque of 475 ft.-lb. at 4,000 rpm. "


For comparison, my 2009 Dodge Cummins, stock was 350HP at 3030RPM, and a flat torque of 610 (650 for the AT, mines a manual) from 1500RPM to redline.. with a mild tune I can go well over 430HP and stay well below 4000RPM, and push the torque to 1000Ft-lbs (I already upgraded the clutch to handle it if I ever felt I needed it, though it's not likely). The new Diesels are getting numbers way above those for this 7.3l engine... and I'd really like to see the MPG numbers.. when you figure engine displacement, and those much higher RPMS to get power an torque needed to tow or haul heavy loads.. you know the MPG is going to suffer. It's just a mathematical reality. A gasoline engine looks to maintain a constant air to fuel ratio, so high displacement, high RPM, mean high fuel burn rate... it's inevitable.
Fleet managers know better: Gas vs. Diesel: The Bad Investment Only Fleet Managers Know About
 
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