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Discussion Starter #41
Sure there are some Class A Motorhomes still going with gasoline V10s
Ford still offers the V-10 Modular engine in school bus applications. The Blue Bird Vision is available and it's equipped to run propane, sold to school districts that want a vehicle that can be maintained by local Ford mechanics and also run clean-burning propane.
 

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I’ll never debate gas vs diesel Cruze because all things considered gas Cruze is always more economical.

That said, the original question...whether I wish I bought a gasoline Cruze?...Still a resounding No.

The CTD is a totally different animal and so much fun to drive, perfectly suited for my 600 mile all highway round trips to California and back. No downshifting on grades, plenty of passing giddy-up, smooth, quiet power and 800-1000 mile range per tank.
 

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Ford still offers the V-10 Modular engine in school bus applications. The Blue Bird Vision is available and it's equipped to run propane, sold to school districts that want a vehicle that can be maintained by local Ford mechanics and also run clean-burning propane.
Sure, and why do the large Truck, long haul operators in particular.. not go with Propane V-10s? Look, there are advantages and disadvantages of all these, and you'll find Propane has a very limited range, and very low MPG, because it has even less energy per gallon than Gasoline, which is less than Diesel, but for a local route, like a school bus that gets fueled at the end of every shift, it might make sense, but it's not going to haul goods across the wide expanse of the USA, and you won't find it hauling train cars either. It won't work well with small cars, because the size of the tank is too large and it's a pressurized fuel tank.

I recall you started this conversation with regrets about your Diesel over gasoline, because you want more power... Propane is not getting you more power, and frankly the Gas Cruze can only get there by some seriously high RPM, a tune, then the transmission is the limiting part that you put at risk. The Diesel, can in fact be tuned, granted it's not easy or cheap, but you'll get all if it's stock HP and Torque at much, much lower RPM than any gasoline car, and the question was about regrets.. and no, I like my low RPM Torque and HP and 700 mile range car, that in stock configuration can do a sub 10 second 0-60MPH run. That would be 60's muscle car times, btw. Granted, many stock cars today can do that, but I did not buy a Cruze Diesel to be a race car, if you did, I could understan regret, but I'm not sure what about the car made you think it was a race car in the first place, I certainly missed that marketing pitch! ;)
 

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You did read that first paragraph? I talk about long haul semis using Diesel, and you come back with a GOVERNMENT fleet that uses GAS for it's under 19,500lb work vehicles. Those vehicles idle for long periods of time, and back in 2015, the date of the article.. the emmissions on Diesels had proven to be a maintenance nightmare with long idle periods, and frankly it's still a pattern that challenges the most recent systems, which are improved, but still suffer from long idle periods.. and it's not great for Gasoline engines either, but the emmissions for a Gasoline engine does not have a Filter, which is the root of the challenge for modern Diesels.

From the first paragraph of your article: " I chose to avoid specifying diesel engines in Class 3-6 trucks. At that time, the decision that any vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 19,500 lbs. or lower"

On MPG, author is being a bit deceptive on MPG, it's not about 2 MPG, it's about PERCENTAGE. If a gas truck gets 10MPG, and a Diesel gets 12MPG, you might say that's not much, but it's literally 20%! For a car, that would be 40MPG vs. 48MPG for instance. Now, based on my actual observations, the improvement going from Gas to Diesel with a RV was more like 50%, and that is even going from a 1/2ton 2WD truck, to a 3/4ton 4WD truck that was an easy 2000lbs heavier, so his 2 MPG is likely due to the large amount of idle time in the operating patern of that particular fleet. Also, the higher cost per gallon is not true all over the US, for example, Diesel is cheaper in CA, and in many places it's only more due to higher taxes placed on Diesel.

From the article:
"Although diesel engines enjoy a sizeable miles per gallon (mpg) advantage over gasoline engines in automobiles, truck engines are a different story. The actual advantage enjoyed by diesel engines in light and medium trucks is less than 2 mpg. In government fleets where daily travel distances are limited, idling is an unfortunate reality, and load requirements can be met equally well with gasoline or diesel engines with little or no impact on mpg; diesel fuel’s higher cost per gallon actually negates its slight advantage in mpg. "
 

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Discussion Starter #45
emmissions for a Gasoline engine does not have a Filter
GDI engines are beginning to be equipped with particulate filters as a requirement in the EU, and I believe Mercedes-Benz has said they will voluntarily equip all their models in the USA with the same filters for better emissions. Government regulators are beginning to take notice of particulate emissions of gasoline engines.

I was looking at this the other day for a family member's Mustang: 2018-2020 ROUSH Mustang Supercharger Kit - Phase 2 750HP

Note that Roush says their supercharger is not acceptable for use on Mustangs equipped with particulate filters in the exhaust (EU 6.2 emissions standards).

The days of particulate filters for gasoline cars have arrived.
 

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GDI engines are beginning to be equipped with particulate filters as a requirement in the EU, and I believe Mercedes-Benz has said they will voluntarily equip all their models in the USA with the same filters for better emissions. Government regulators are beginning to take notice of particulate emissions of gasoline engines.

I was looking at this the other day for a family member's Mustang: 2018-2020 ROUSH Mustang Supercharger Kit - Phase 2 750HP

Note that Roush says their supercharger is not acceptable for use on Mustangs equipped with particulate filters in the exhaust (EU 6.2 emissions standards).

The days of particulate filters for gasoline cars have arrived.
And you can bet that Particulate filters on Gasoline cars are going to create all kinds of issues as they have on the Diesels.

Seems the ever expanding quest for emmissions standards is drivng many of the problems we face, certainly cleaner emmsissions is a good thing, but there has to be a balance to what is reasonable, if the emmissions systems kill the engine and cause early replacement... what are the emmissions and enviromental impact of all that production to make the car, and then throw it away? There are no free lunches, when trying to solve one possible issue, they very likely can be created other as yet unseen issues and impacts.

Ironically, in Europe, the gasoline car is considered the premium/performance option. Most economy cars there are Diesels.
 

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Why I don’t regret buying my diesel, try this in a gasser (and still about 40-50 miles left in the tank).
11B8EB49-7A6F-4972-9E54-C2E9921B937D.jpeg
DAA46BE2-0357-408D-92DF-FBE8D7D0BB72.jpeg
 

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There has been some discussion about propane (LPG) as a fuel for cars V petrol. I had for about 10 years, prior to buying my CTD in 2012, owned a a 3.8 V6 Commodore with duel fuel. On petrol it was costing me $80 per week to run on petrol only. As gas was less than half the cost of petrol and the Government at the time gave $2,000 toward the cost od adding LPG I had the gas fitted. It cost me $400 after my rebate and it was well worth it. My fuel cost went from $80 to $30 per week. On petrol I was using 9 litres per 100 km touring and on Gas 11 litres per 100km. The car had a 5 speed manual transmission and gas gave better low down torque than petrol, but petrol gave better high rpm power. I could switch between them on the move and used to go the first 100km on petrol and then use the whole gas tank after filling up. The petrol tank held 75 litres and the gas tank held 70 litres. One big advantage of LPG is no fuel pump is needed. It was set up to start on petrol all the time and when the gas was switched on it started on petrol and then went to gas right away. There was still enough room in the trunk for plenty of luggage and the spare was still under the floor and accessible. I had covered 250,000 km when I sold it and it was still running great. A side benefit at my 10,000 km oil changes the oil still looked new.
287115
 

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I have thoroughly enjoyed my 2018 Cruze sedan for the past two years, but after really thinking about it as an investment it kinda makes me wish I had purchased the same car in a gasoline model. I would still have purchased a 6MT model instead of the automatic.

My biggest desire is simply MORE POWER. Now that I'm seeing the opportunity to push the gasoline engine past 200 horsepower with a custom tune, it makes me regret buying the diesel which has no affordable tuning options.
I was debating about buying the diesel and opted for the 1.4L turbo. I didn't figure I would rack up the miles, so it would take me 8-10 years to make up the cost price in fuel. Then the ex moved to San Antonio, and I moved to an hour outside Houston.. and poof, 92,000 miles on my 2014. It has enough power to be sporty, (especially after some minor additions) but not enough to be a horsepower champ. I do like the suspension you get in the upgrade.
 

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There has been some discussion about propane (LPG) as a fuel for cars V petrol. I had for about 10 years, prior to buying my CTD in 2012, owned a a 3.8 V6 Commodore with duel fuel. On petrol it was costing me $80 per week to run on petrol only. As gas was less than half the cost of petrol and the Government at the time gave $2,000 toward the cost od adding LPG I had the gas fitted. It cost me $400 after my rebate and it was well worth it. My fuel cost went from $80 to $30 per week. On petrol I was using 9 litres per 100 km touring and on Gas 11 litres per 100km. The car had a 5 speed manual transmission and gas gave better low down torque than petrol, but petrol gave better high rpm power. I could switch between them on the move and used to go the first 100km on petrol and then use the whole gas tank after filling up. The petrol tank held 75 litres and the gas tank held 70 litres. One big advantage of LPG is no fuel pump is needed. It was set up to start on petrol all the time and when the gas was switched on it started on petrol and then went to gas right away. There was still enough room in the trunk for plenty of luggage and the spare was still under the floor and accessible. I had covered 250,000 km when I sold it and it was still running great. A side benefit at my 10,000 km oil changes the oil still looked new. View attachment 287115
Thanks for the post and data, as suspected, LPG gets lower MPG, but if it is much cheaper.. it might still work.. problem is, for most places here in the US, LPG is about the same as gasoline (petrol), and in some cases more.. and the stations that have LPG are limited.. and you can't operate the equipment yourself to fill the tank, and attendant has to do so for you... all that adds up to making it not work economically, and it's inconvienent as well.. now for a fleet that has it's own fueling station and fuels it's own fleet, and buys LPG at the wholesale bulk rate.. it might start making some sense.. but that is a limited market, and hence it has not become a popular option here in the US.
 

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Thanks for the post and data, as suspected, LPG gets lower MPG, but if it is much cheaper.. it might still work.. problem is, for most places here in the US, LPG is about the same as gasoline (petrol), and in some cases more.. and the stations that have LPG are limited.. and you can't operate the equipment yourself to fill the tank, and attendant has to do so for you... all that adds up to making it not work economically, and it's inconvienent as well.. now for a fleet that has it's own fueling station and fuels it's own fleet, and buys LPG at the wholesale bulk rate.. it might start making some sense.. but that is a limited market, and hence it has not become a popular option here in the US.
In Australia every service has a gas pump as well as diesel pumps. LPG has gotten more expensive in recent years, but is still half the price of petrol. Until the last few years taxi's ran on LPG exclusively, noe the Camry Hybrid type vehicles have replaced them.
 

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Discussion Starter #52
now for a fleet that has it's own fueling station and fuels it's own fleet, and buys LPG at the wholesale bulk rate.. it might start making some sense.. but that is a limited market, and hence it has not become a popular option here in the US.
The places I have seen with lots of LPG use it for taxi fleets. I think Las Vegas has some environmental initiative that all taxis must use LPG, because when I was there a while ago it was a fleet of Ford Crown Vics and every one of them was using LPG. They must have fueling stations for them and tax credits for the conversion hardware.
 
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