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Discussion Starter #1
2014 CTD.
Currently using full version of Torque and Biscan w/OBD Link Bluetooth adapter.
I've been seeing & clearing CELs with P20 & P21 codes pretty regularly.
My DEF level shows 100% and it dips when braking (sloshing around I assume). The car has performed 6 regular regens since I've started monitoring with Biscan. The last regen was soon after soot % reached 21ppm.
My DEF level remains unchanged after 6 regens. The DEF Quality death count down started a few miles after.
Any suggestions? I'm thinking that the DEF delivery isn't happening either a clogged line or failed pump. Searching test procedures now.

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Discussion Starter #2
Removed the injector assembly without a problem. A few drops of DEF dripped out of the supply hose but nothing more.

The injector looks ok- no deposits, crystal or otherwise. Rinsed it in hot water anyway. The coil ohmed good and I could hear a click when I applied power to it at the bench. When I energized the imjectorI tried blowing through it via an attached tube~no dice.
So it's either:
1. Clogged
2. Has a very fine orifice
3. Mechanically jammed.

TBC..


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DEF is purged at some point when you shut off the vehicle. But it's likely you'll still get some drips as you saw.

NOx sensor 2 is the #1 cause for DEF Quality Errors. The second being a bad DEF Heater (sump unit). Third would maybe be an Injector or line issue in which case cleaning and flushing almost always fixes it. Fourth would be an actual DEF Quality issue wherein the DEF is contaminated. Funny how the DEF Quality actually being poor is the last on this list. A very distant issue is NOx Sensor 1 but since this is upstream of the DEF Injector it doesn't have the corrosion problems.

The DEF Quality Test is the best way to clear these errors. Unfortunately it doesn't work with BiScan but since you have an OBDLINK you can just use Gretio which comes with BiScan. See here: Poor DEF Quality . Given your symptoms although its possible the quality check may clear the countdown I doubt it will be a permanent fix. These tests are kind of a fuel hog so keep that in mind.

100% I would start with NOx Sensor 2.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks~
I've just put it together and was preparing to give it a test run. I've got Gretio but haven't spent any time setting it up. I watched your sick tutorial video this morning and I'm going to give it a try.
I replaced NOx2 in late December after the dealership diagnosed it as the cause of my previous death countdown. Diagnosis was "internally shorted". A trip back to the dealer was required and I paid 140.00 for a forced regen and a car wash.


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Thanks~
I've just put it together and was preparing to give it a test run. I've got Gretio but haven't spent any time setting it up. I watched your sick tutorial video this morning and I'm going to give it a try.
I replaced NOx2 in late December after the dealership diagnosed it as the cause of my previous death countdown. Diagnosis was "internally shorted". A trip back to the dealer was required and I paid 140.00 for a forced regen and a car wash.


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You can also bypass the heater itself with a resistor. You can consider this if you live in warmer areas.


I sadly do not know the wiring enough on the Cruze but 4 ohm should be enough to mimic the heater while also allowing the heater to still function without pulling too much power.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks-
Ill have to check the heater next. I don't see any wrong temp wise, it's about 7 deg above outside air temp (51.8, vs 44)
Here's a test drive screen shot. It takes NOx2 several min to come up from 199 ppm/-6 02 but that seems normal.
The last Pic is post regen.


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Thanks-
Ill have to check the heater next. I don't see any wrong temp wise, it's about 7 deg above outside air temp (51.8, vs 44)
Here's a test drive screen shot. It takes NOx2 several min to come up from 199 ppm/-6 02 but that seems normal.
The last Pic is post regen.


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How many miles you got on this bad boy?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
126565-
I drive 150 to 300 miles per week mostly highway miles.


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You should be seeing NOx 2 at about 30% of NOx 1. So like 150 in these pictures. This is true for normal driving at Operating Temps and when running a fluid quality test. But not necessary at idle.

During a regen NOx 2 will be higher as there is just more NOx and some stuff is getting burned even after NOx 1. This probably explains pic #2,

When coasting (DFCO) both sensors should read close to 0 ppm.

Excess NOx2 when its not suppose to can be a few things...
  • Excess DEF. Either from too much DEF being injected OR the catalyst being bad.
  • Residual DEF on the sensor. This can happen in colder temps.
  • Sensor malfunction
  • Bad fluid
A higher NOx1 when its not suppose to be can only be explained by the sensor being faulty.

These are also general rules. There may be times where a sensor spikes which is usually a temporary fluke and should not be considered.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Snipesy-
Would you post a link to your Gretio tutorial? I didn't book mark it and I can't ssem to connect

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks~
The instructions are simple enough. Gretio sees and recognizes the device but only connected for a few min.
Does torque need to be disabled?


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Thanks~
The instructions are simple enough. Gretio sees and recognizes the device but only connected for a few min.
Does torque need to be disabled?


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Torque can mess with things. Having them both open at the same time causes weird issues. If you go into your Settings -> Applications or Apps -> Find Torque -> Force Stop. That will insure it won't cause any more troubles.

But just having Torque installed shouldn't cause any problems.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Yesterday I did a forced regen really out of desperation. No change to the DEF quality fault/death countdown as I expected. For me to get Gretio to connect I
disabled Bluetooth to the car and force stopped Torque. In Gretio I performed the DEF quality test, saw no change in fault status and quit for the day.
I headed off to work this morning with the 65 MPH limitation and 70 miles to go until 55 MPH. About 15 miles into the drive the DEF Quality fault & death countdown cleared.
When I got to work and stopped I had P21DD as a historic fault but no CEL.

So ~ the only thing worse than a fault I can't clear is an intermittent fault that clears itself.

I'm looking hard at DEF delivery~ pump, supply line and injector as well as verifying the vent is clear.
~The DEF heater keeps throwing a code.
~The DEF level shown on Torque has remained at 100% after 8 regen including 1 Service regen.

More to follow...

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Thanks for the advice, but delete isn't an option I'll consider at this point.

I had updates due on my phone and several apps including Greitio. After the update and force stopped Torque, I was able to connect and remain no problem. I ran both DEF heater tests & they passed.
My battery is the original and while it cranks and starts it ain't what it used to be. At idle it's below 12.5V. I'm wondering if the lower voltage is causing an issue. Test and results to follow..

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That thing should be at 13.5V or above at idle, so it definitely sounds like it may be time for a new battery.
 

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Thanks for the advice, but delete isn't an option I'll consider at this point.

I had updates due on my phone and several apps including Greitio. After the update and force stopped Torque, I was able to connect and remain no problem. I ran both DEF heater tests & they passed.
My battery is the original and while it cranks and starts it ain't what it used to be. At idle it's below 12.5V. I'm wondering if the lower voltage is causing an issue. Test and results to follow..

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are you reading battery voltage or alternator voltage?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I noticed the lower voltage at idle but I checked this morning before I started and it was 12.25. Definitely on the low end. I really took a chance this winter, fortunately it was a mild one.

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