[XtremeRevolution]

The dexos1 specification is nothing but GM being blood-sucking leeches. It is nothing more than an oil tax and a way for them to screw everyone for more money there is absolutely no other reason to require a royalty on oil sales. They require royalties and a significant certification cost in order to certify, so AMSOIL has opted not to. AMOSIL OE, XL, and Signature Series exceed the dexos1 specifications. The certification expense and per-gallon royalty is substantial and is not required. AMSOIL has refused to certify on a number of occasions and this, being the worst offender, is certainly not going to be an exception.

Your warranty will stay intact. GM cannot deny your warranty for your choice of lubricant and they know this. The dexos1 requirement is there to ensure you don't go out and put crappy conventional oil in your turbocharged engine, not to ensure you use their crappy oil quality and nothing better.

Of course your dealer doesn't want you to do anything else; they don't make money if you change your own oil. It's funny that they tell you to run a "fully synthetic" oil, since that to them means selling you overpriced Mobil 1, which isn't really even considered a true synthetic oil to begin with.

Your concern is about nothing more than GM trying to screw you out of more money on maintenance.

I have yet to find a better oil for this car than AMSOIL Signature Series and I've researched a lot of foreign brands and boutique oils. If you find one, let me know. I sure as **** wouldn't drain AMSOIL SS to put in an inferior oil to appease a dealership who has absolutely no legal authority to comment on your choice of lubricant. The only time they have any right to comment is if a failure occurs and they have reason to believe the oil was responsible for it. I've seen shredded synchros and blown turbos in this car and not once was the oil considered suspect. Your dealer is certainly not interested in the legal can of worms they'd open by suggesting that using a better oil would void your warranty.

 

[bwrin]

Thanks for the reply.

I guess my next question is: "meets and exceeds dexos1 specifications". Is this something GM recognizes? Is this proven by anyone other than Amsoil? I feel like I'm just taking their word for it. What exactly qualifies a product as dexos1 compliant?

If something did happen, and it was determined it was oil related, what happens?
They ask what oil I use, I provided proof of my OCI's and brand.
They see I use Amsoil, that it's not "dexos1 certified"
Do they say, sorry, not sorry. You didn't use the proper oil and then I have to go through Amsoil for warranty service?
Seems like that could become a headache quick, although I'm sure the odds of it getting to that point or even happening is pretty slim.

 

[XtremeRevolution]

On your other note, let me know what you find on their website that you believe is hearsay. I'll be more than happy to provide the technical data to show you otherwise.

 

[obermd]

I called a local dealership and she said that I HAVE to use dexos1 or a FULLY synthetic oil, that I must keep receipts if I insist on doing it myself, like its frowned upon to not bring it to the dealer.
I'm just concerned and almost want to drain my Amsoil SS I just put in because of it.

Someone. Help.

Keep the receipts regardless, even if you're like me and have your oil changed by the dealership. AMSOil is a fully synthetic oil.

 

[bwrin]

Maybe that was a bad choice of words.
I'm asking, how can we verify that what they say is true. They aren't even API certified, are they?
I don't see the star burst logo on the bottle, which is something I've always been told to look for.
It's like buying knives from an infomercial because they said "these are the sharpest knives in the world! It's not verified by anyone other than us, but take our word for it." That's how I feel about it.

 

[XtremeRevolution]

Thanks for the reply.

I guess my next question is: "meets and exceeds dexos1 specifications". Is this something GM recognizes? Is this proven by anyone other than Amsoil? I feel like I'm just taking their word for it. What exactly qualifies a product as dexos1 compliant?

If something did happen, and it was determined it was oil related, what happens?
They ask what oil I use, I provided proof of my OCI's and brand.
They see I use Amsoil, that it's not "dexos1 certified"
Do they say, sorry, not sorry. You didn't use the proper oil and then I have to go through Amsoil for warranty service?
Seems like that could become a headache quick, although I'm sure the odds of it getting to that point or even happening is pretty slim.

The dexos1 specification is a minimum requirement for oil. It specifies things like a maximum volatility of 13% (lower is better). API SN oils are maximum of 15%, and AMSOIL signature series is 7.5%. That's a technical data number that has been validated by PQI America. There are other specifications such as oxidation stability (proven with our 16,150 oil analysis), minimum detergent levels, fuel economy requirements, etc. When AMSOIL says they meet and exceed those specifications, it means that on all metric that the dexos1 spec tests, they exceed the performance requirements. That is a legally binding statement that they are liable for, and so far, they have proven to exceed those specifications. It is your dealer's burden to prove that it does not.

What do you mean by something GM recognizes? Again, they cannot require you to use a dexos1 certified oil. If you use something inferior and it causes a problem, they can deny a warranty claim. However, given that we've seen motors sludged, oil starved, and destroyed at 13k miles on the OE oil, and we've got Polaris Labs recommending nearly 20k miles on our oil, I think it's safe to say the quality difference is substantial, and that's just using independent analysis on an extended drain. You're comparing a synthetic to a semi-synthetic; that alone effectively guarantees the oil will exceed all specifications.

If the failure was claimed to be oil related, you take a sample of the oil and send it out for oil analysis. If the lab shows that the oil was out of spec at that drain interval, then AMSOIL covers the repairs under their warranty, which is legally binding. If the lab shows the oil was still good, your dealer gets it shoved in their face and they are required to cover the repairs themselves as they have no leg to stand on.

Again, a dexos1 certified oil is not required, and AMSOIL isn't the only superior oil out there that has refused to certify.

I've sold nearly $60k of product in the last 1.5 years and haven't seen a single warranty issue come up, no matter what failure.

 

[bwrin]

Good stuff.
Thanks man!

Makes more sense now.

 

[XtremeRevolution]

Maybe that was a bad choice of words.
I'm asking, how can we verify that what they say is true. They aren't even API certified, are they?
I don't see the star burst logo on the bottle, which is something I've always been told to look for.
It's like buying knives from an infomercial because they said "these are the sharpest knives in the world! It's not verified by anyone other than us, but take our word for it." That's how I feel about it.

Why does a PAO/Ester (non-petroleum) oil not certify with the American Petroleum Institute? Well, because it isn't petroleum, for starters, and because all of these certifications cost money. The next closest oil to AMSOIL Signature Series is Xado Atomic 0W-30, which costs about $16 a liter. The reason AMSOIL's oil can sell for $11.15 is partially because they don't bother certifying with trivial labels. I guess they feel that they are above the need to certify.

I regret that I don't have a better answer for you, but that's about as much as I can say since I don't certify these oils and I don't keep track of every metric that an oil is tested for. The metrics I do know about, I know AMSOIL exceeds them. I understand oil formulations well enough to know that you can't get anything better. AMSOIL has been making synthetic oils for automotive use longer than any other company.

 

[bwrin]

I get it for a little over $8 a quart, thanks to you
That makes sense, and I really appreciate the detailed responses.
I have Amsoil SS and their fuel efficient ATF in my 2012 LTZ. I'll let you know if it blows up lol

 

[spacedout]

Sure amsoil is quality oil and should not ever cause any issues, but without dexos1 approval, your in for a headache if there was ever a major engine catastrophe. First question GM will ask is for maintenance records, second is to verify a dexos1 oil was used. Can they deny a warranty claim based on lack of maintenance or not using the oil they recommend? You freakin bet they can. This is where the possible headache/fight comes in, not something I'm willing to do when I can just as easily choose an oil that is dexos1 approved.

Every model year since 2010 GM has required dexos oil, so amsoil and others unwilling to pay for the approval makes less and less sense every year. This is millions of potential customers they are overlooking.

 

[The_Madcat]

It's not whether or not it will be covered as you will be by either the factory warranty or Amsoil's guarantee. The only issue I saw with it, and the reason I don't use AMS SS in my Cruze, is that if there IS an issue, and they want to test the oil and argue over who covers what, you get to sit and wait while it all transpires. I don't think you can buy a better commercial oil than AMS SS, I use it in my GXP. But the idea of a runaround, being without a car for who knows how long, is enough to deter me from using it in the Cruze.

 

[bwrin]

It's not whether or not it will be covered as you will be by either the factory warranty or Amsoil's guarantee. The only issue I saw with it, and the reason I don't use AMS SS in my Cruze, is that if there IS an issue, and they want to test the oil and argue over who covers what, you get to sit and wait while it all transpires. I don't think you can buy a better commercial oil than AMS SS, I use it in my GXP. But the idea of a runaround, being without a car for who knows how long, is enough to deter me from using it in the Cruze.

I think the being without a car part is what concerned me most.
Waiting for XtremeRevolution to chime in.

 

[The_Madcat]

I just wish AMS would quit the crap and just certify already. They would sell quite a bit more oil in the process and make up for the cert fee. No matter how it is spun, it makes no sense to me that they don't do this.

 

[bwrin]

I just wish AMS would quit the crap and just certify already. They would sell quite a bit more oil in the process and make up for the cert fee. No matter how it is spun, it makes no sense to me that they don't do this.

I completely agree. I can't imagine it costs that much.
I know they aren't a huge company, but you would think that could at least do that.

 

[ChevyGuy]

I think the being without a car part is what concerned me most.

It's a tossup between that and being in the middle of a pi..ing match.

The alternative is to run the best Dexos1 oil until the powertrain warranty is up. Then you can run whatever you want.

 

[XtremeRevolution]

Sure amsoil is quality oil and should not ever cause any issues, but without dexos1 approval, your in for a headache if there was ever a major engine catastrophe. First question GM will ask is for maintenance records, second is to verify a dexos1 oil was used. Can they deny a warranty claim based on lack of maintenance or not using the oil they recommend? You freakin bet they can. This is where the possible headache/fight comes in, not something I'm willing to do when I can just as easily choose an oil that is dexos1 approved.

Every model year since 2010 GM has required dexos oil, so amsoil and others unwilling to pay for the approval makes less and less sense every year. This is millions of potential customers they are overlooking.

Why are you in for a headache? Give me one instance where this has happened. Just one. AMSOIL has been selling this oil since 1972, so give me an example where any manufacturer had an issue with this oil from their refusal to certify. GM will never ask if you had a dexos1 certified oil, because they cannot legally require you to use a dexos1 oil. Worst case, they can ask you which oil you used. If you tell them you used AMSOIL, it is their burden to prove the oil was out of specification since AMSOIL states it meets and exceeds dexos1 specifications. I say good luck with that. Ain't gonna happen. GM dealers may be annoying but they're not that stupid.

There's a difference between not changing your oil for 15,000 miles on dexos1 crap and following the service interval recommended by a specific oil manufacturer. AMSOIL is the only manufacturer that guarantees their extended service intervals regardless of whether or not the car is under warranty, so let's stop acting like this is a generic problem. This is not the only company that refuses to certify. This imagined headache has not and will not happen because GM does not require the use of a dexos certified oil. There is a difference between a recommendation and a requirement. They legally cannot require you to use any product they do not give to you for free.

AMSOIL is not hurting one bit by not paying royalties to GM for their certification. What's next, every car manufacturer requiring a certification and every oil company having to pay royalties? You must love getting taxed. I don't. AMSOIL and many others will continue to make superior oils. Those who understand why lubricants made by companies such as AMSOIL, Redline, and Motul are leaps and bounds better than anything with a dexos1 certification will not care whether or not the oil is certified.

It's not whether or not it will be covered as you will be by either the factory warranty or Amsoil's guarantee. The only issue I saw with it, and the reason I don't use AMS SS in my Cruze, is that if there IS an issue, and they want to test the oil and argue over who covers what, you get to sit and wait while it all transpires. I don't think you can buy a better commercial oil than AMS SS, I use it in my GXP. But the idea of a runaround, being without a car for who knows how long, is enough to deter me from using it in the Cruze.

I've been doing this for 1.5 years, and in that time, I've seen many warranty failures in many different vehicles, not only the Cruze. Not once in that time did I see a manufacturer suspect the oil of being the cause of that failure or ask what oil was used. Not even once. I'd be more afraid of getting hit by lightning than I would be of GM blaming my choice of oil on a turbo failure or any engine failure in the next 10k miles.

I just wish AMS would quit the crap and just certify already. They would sell quite a bit more oil in the process and make up for the cert fee. No matter how it is spun, it makes no sense to me that they don't do this.

The fact is that a dexos1 licensing is not required. It is sufficient for the manufacturer of that product to state that it meets dexos1 specifications in order to meet warranty requirements with regard to proper maintenance. Since licensing is not required and is nothing more than a stamp of approval to getting your brand listed on the dexos website, the cost to certify and the licensing fees are entirely unnecessary.

 

[obermd]

GM dealers may be annoying but they're not that stupid.

Based on some of the issues our members have reported with way too many of their dealerships I definitely don't agree with this. Some of them are stupid.

 

[XtremeRevolution]

Directly from GM in 2013:

Current (2013) General Motors statement

GM has found that using substandard oil can affect engine performance and, in the worst case scenario, may damage or harm the engine. Only licensed dexos™ products have been certified by GM to meet the dexos™ specification. Unlicensed products have not gone through GM’s rigorous testing process, are not monitored for quality, and are not approved or recommended for use in GM vehicles. Unlicensed product quality and suitability for GM vehicles cannot be guaranteed and, therefore, use of unlicensed products may result in lower levels of performance and could cause engine damage that may not be covered under warranty.

Using engine oils other than authentic licensed dexos™ products could result in reduced engine performance.

This is in stark contrast to what they said in 2010:

Original (2010) General Motors statement

Don’t be fooled by oils with claims on the back label such as "meets," "complies with" or "is approved for use with the dexos™ specification. Look alikes or unlicensed products that don’t display the dexos™ icon and trademark, on the front label simply don’t comply with the high performance and quality standards of dexos™.

Using engine oil other than authentic dexos™ licensed products could result in damage that is not covered under warranty.

GM realized that they are prevented by law from making such statements. Their official statement form 2013 makes no mention of warranty. This is important to note since their previous statement did mention the warranty. It was a deliberate removal.

Cost to license is $1000 per product and $0.36 per gallon sold. If you think $0.36 per gallon is inconsequential, you are ignorant to the profit margins that companies that manufacture products operate under.

 

[XtremeRevolution]

Based on some of the issues our members have reported with way too many of their dealerships I definitely don't agree with this. Some of them are stupid.

I've had to send a harshly worded e-mail to a GM dealership before with regard to this oil discussion. The dealer backed down from their claims and refused to put them in writing. I made it clear they were in violation of federal law. That's a different level of stupid.