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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This thread is to discuss Dexos2 and equivalent motor oils for Cruze Diesel engines.

GM has established a standard for motor oil used in its non-Duramax Diesel engines. This standard is called Dexos2 and it is available to license oils that meet the standard.

Not all oil brands are willing to pay the licensing fee to GM so there are an undetermined number of oil formulations that meet the Dexos2 standard but are neither listed nor labelled as such.

The following link provides the official listing of Dexos2 licensed oils. As it is subject to ongoing change I am providing the link only and not reproducing the list in this thread.

GM dexos information center

The 2014 owners manual specifies that the LUZ engine in the North American Cruze Diesel is to operate on a 5W30 viscosity, or a 0W30 viscosity in "extreme cold temperatures".

The owners manual also states: "...you may use a substitute engine oil that meets ACEA C3 of the appropriate viscosity grade."
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
Manny - you have written passionately about the factory fill for the LUZ engine, the AC Delco Dexos2 oil, and oils meeting similar standards such as those from BMW, M-B and VW.

Andrei - you have offered to supply a European formulation of Amsoil to our community.

Kory - motor oils are one of your areas of interest and specialization.

So everyone, come on down! Let the discussion be vigorous and benefit our current and future diesel brethren.
 

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I am disappointed that Amsoil isn't on that list, even though they have an oil that exceeds Dexos2 specifications. Either that list has not been updated, or Amsoil hasn't bothered to pay for the certification yet.

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I can understand paying a reasonable one time fee to get ones' oil certified, but extorting royalties is another thing. What if every car company decided that oil companies would have to pay for their special label. Next will be sparkplugs, and a new more expensive royalty for Dex-cool 2, and a royalty for cabin air filters, and $.15/gallon to get the new GM global top tier DEXFUEL label. Still trying to figure out how much Ford gets paid for the advertising of BP on their fuel caps. Maybe consumers need to say enough with passing along these fees to the end user too. With all the testing and standards associations around the world, and the old business of labeling meeting this or that brand's requirement should be enough. Everybody is looking how to create new revenue streams and to monetize everything at the expense of the loyal customer. "F" that! Had enough. Rant over....for now.
 

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I agree about the licensing. It is one thing to set forth specification and to have a fee for a testing program to verify compliance with the spec. But charging per liter sold is insane. Especially since the oil will probably meet multiple manufacturer specs. Why should GM get a fee for oil used in another brand car. I plan on using Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 which is ACEA compliant. However, Amsoil, Castrol, Shell and many other manufacturers make an acceptable oil that is not Dexos2 compliant but meeting the specs of ACEA 3 or better.


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Some ones been paying attention .
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Okay - let's get serious for a moment. GM charges a one time licensing fee of $1,000 per product certification and $0.09 for every quart that carries their certification.

If you can't afford an extra 45 cents per oil change then you really should be driving something else.

Same thing goes for the Valvolines of this world that cry poor and won't pay the fee. My guess is that it's costing them way more in ink just to explain why they don't carry any certification.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
I am disappointed that Amsoil isn't on that list, even though they have an oil that exceeds Dexos2 specifications. Either that list has not been updated, or Amsoil hasn't bothered to pay for the certification yet.

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List is dated May 13, 2013.

I've got nothing against their oil but I don't ever remember Amsoil officially making the two other old GM certifications either. These were GM6094M and GM4817M that were last published in 2008. Then as now there were oils that claimed to meet or exceed the GM spec but didn't actually carry it.

EDIT: Yep, here's the 2008 version of GM Registered Products and Amsoil is not present.

http://www.andersonperformance.net/oil_lists_02_2008.pdf
 

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Article talking about this situation and the certifications costs. They might be moving to a marketshare percentage, if they have not already.
Dexos 1- interesting reading

It is about principle and nipping this thing in the bud before it becomes a standard that all manufacturers start doing. Lets see, 25 manufacturers with their own certification system, charging royalties in line with GM on each bottle of oil. Geesh, this Super duper AMSBIL 1 extended life doflippey oil made of a blend of group 4, 5, and Area 51 top secret group 9 oils does not have the Tata sticker on it. Shucky darn, I just screwed up the warranty on my brand new Jaguiar Type magnuson-moss redline edition in British racing green, even though the other 24 certifications only cost an extra $2.16/qt, but still was not good enough. :grin:
Edit:
Let me reiterate, I am all for certs and specs, and the ability for a manufacturer to deny warranty claims if fluids that do not meet those specs are used. I have a problem with the royalty or % of profits in perpetuity. It is a devil at the crossroads, shark tank, sign on the dotted line for your soul kind of thing that I depise.
 

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I agree about the licensing. It is one thing to set forth specification and to have a fee for a testing program to verify compliance with the spec. But charging per liter sold is insane. Especially since the oil will probably meet multiple manufacturer specs. Why should GM get a fee for oil used in another brand car. I plan on using Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 which is ACEA compliant. However, Amsoil, Castrol, Shell and many other manufacturers make an acceptable oil that is not Dexos2 compliant but meeting the specs of ACEA 3 or better.


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I agree entirely.

List is dated May 13, 2013.

I've got nothing against their oil but I don't ever remember Amsoil officially making the two other old GM certifications either. These were GM6094M and GM4817M that were last published in 2008. Then as now there were oils that claimed to meet or exceed the GM spec but didn't actually carry it.

EDIT: Yep, here's the 2008 version of GM Registered Products and Amsoil is not present.

http://www.andersonperformance.net/oil_lists_02_2008.pdf
I have zero doubt that Amsoil by a long shot exceeds specifications. It outperforms retail Mobil 1 products in all relevant categories and tests by a significant margin. I can post the tests if anyone needs to see them.

The whole warranty issue is a moot point for me since my car will never suffer an oil-related failure with Amsoil. That's the peace of mind you have using the best oil in the industry regardless of specification.

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Dexos 1 and Dexos 2 are Licensing Standards Presented to the Engine Oil Manufacturers by GM and That is all they are . ,,,..,,,

I would think that it is my Educated assertion to utilize a specified or comparable product to lubricate My GM built Vehicle .
 

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I agree entirely.



I have zero doubt that Amsoil by a long shot exceeds specifications. It outperforms retail Mobil 1 products in all relevant categories and tests by a significant margin. I can post the tests if anyone needs to see them.

The whole warranty issue is a moot point for me since my car will never suffer an oil-related failure with Amsoil. That's the peace of mind you have using the best oil in the industry regardless of specification.

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I absolutely agree. I really think we're all too paranoid about this warranty issue.

I think he ONLY reasonany diesel owners are worried about which oil to use is for the warranty of the emissions systems. If you're worried about your engine blowing up because you run AMSoil in it, you need to get a life :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
I have no doubt that Amsoil offers an excellent product. As I've already posted on this forum an objective study demonstrated that Amsoil offers the industry's best performing air filter, and one of its best oil filters.

Why Amsoil does not invest the $1,000 to Dexos certify its oils is a question that only they can answer. Surely their sales would increase if they did.

It occurs to me that some proponents of direct-marketed brands (Amway, Avon, Mary Kay, NuSkin, Tuperware, etc.) posses a deep faith in their respective products and whose advocacy may at times challenge even our own measure of Cruze enthusiasm.

Now back to Dexos2 and equivalent motor oils...
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
If we want to pull hairs, Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 isn't dexos2 approved either then. Just 0W-40.
It's not pulling hairs. It's a fact that Mobil 1 ESP 5W30 is not a Dexos2 licensed product.

It it may very well meet or exceed the standard but Mobil has not had it tested by GM or paid the licensing fee.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
GM established its own motor oil standards to exceed those set by the API. These standards were put in place to first protect the vehicle operator from unnecessary failure and second to protect GM from unnecessary warranty costs. Other manufacturers (BMW, M-B, VW) have also put in place their own standards.

Dexos1 and Dexos2 are just GM's current standards for motor oils. The difference with past practice is that GM licenses the use of the Dexos logo. The Dexos logo is intended as an aid to the consumer to quickly identify an oil meeting the standard, rather than spinning the bottle around and reading the fine print. To protect the integrity of the process, GM charges a nominal fee for this, thereby preventing fly-by-night operators from making misleading claims to the consumer.
 

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been using amsoil for years ,currently in my motorcycle, snowmobile, atv an will be in the cruze next week. case sitting on my bench 5w40 European mid saps meets dexos2 an acea3. friend of mine that I sell amsoil too will use no other oil in his race boat an I see his engines off season. where both mechanics by trade (myself 40 years) I don`t work for amsoil but their oil sure continues to work great for me!!
 

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http://www.acdelco.com.au/PDFs/oils/Specs_ACDelco_5W30_Dexos2Diesel.pdf

http://www.oilspecifications.org/acea.php

http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/pub/070308_ACEA_sequences_2007_LD_and_HD.pdf

http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/files/2012_ACEA_Oil_Sequences.pdf
ACEA C3 SAPS specifications:
Sulphated ash: = or <0.8
Phosphorus: = or >0.070, = or <0.090
Sulphur: = or <0.3
Also to consider ACEA A3/B4 specs, among others:
http://www.oilspecifications.org/ilsac.php

http://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/api-sn.php

http://www.oilspecifications.org/api_eolcs.php
Issues are catalyst protection, and Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) protection. I do not think Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) system protection is much of an issue. Other issues would be about fuel economy additives in certain situations, especially when considering compatibility with wet clutches in motorcycles. These reliability or longevity protection concerns seems to come at the expense of long established engine protection additive levels. I feel in some respects we are going backwards.
The levels of SAPS going down usually means it is at the expense of engine protection, being that these things are byproducts of long established friction reducers, detergent and extreme pressure additives.
Trying to find exact numbers that GM and it's DEXOS 1 or 2 levels specifications are, is being a P.I.T.A. for me. All I can do is look what the other requirements are that it specifies.
None of these SAPS oil specifications should make much of a difference if the engine does not burn oil. I would think the more prevalent concern would be levels of sulphur in the diesel fuel.
 

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So, if the Mobil 1 oil is of the wrong viscosity but certified as Dexos2, is it warranty compliant?
 

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So, if the Mobil 1 oil is of the wrong viscosity but certified as Dexos2, is it warranty compliant?
Any oils that meet or exceed the Dexos2 specification will not be able to be denied by GM for warranty work.

GM is required to prove that the oil you used is what caused a given failure. When it comes to high quality full synthetics, a failure will never occur as a result of the oil. The specification is designed to protect GM against those who think they can just dump conventional oil into their engines and hope for the best. Since the synthetic oil options from Amsoil and Mobil 1 are of vastly higher quality than the factory oil, someone using the factory oil will be far more likely to have an issue than you would.

Allow me to paint the picture I am trying to convey here. For example, GM fills our manual transmissions with an oil that does not lubricate our transmissions well and breaks down under heat and stress. It does not allow our synchros to function properly. We highly recommend Amsoil Synchromesh as the replacement, which vastly improves shifting quality and even alleviates to some degree a 1-2 shift grind that some people experience. Now, there is no doubt that Amsoil is the better fluid, but GM wants you to use their fluid. Say you had a manual transmission Cruze and used GM's fluid for 100k miles, and then your transmission blew a synchro at 120k miles. GM's liability of 100k miles would be satisfied and you would be out the cost of a rebuild. In hindsight, you'd look back and see that if you had used a better fluid, your problem could have been avoided.

Another example is related to Mazdaspeed 3 owners. A while back, Mazda filled those engines from the factory with conventional oil. That's conventional oil on a turbo engine! People were losing turbos left and right because the oil was of crap quality, so Mazda bumped it up to a synthetic oil. You can make the argument that we should use what the manufacturer recommends and just let them deal with the warranty repairs, but my argument is that if Mazda owners had just used a full synthetic oil from the start, premature turbo failure could have been avoided. As such, the warranty aspect never comes into play as the higher quality fluid will extend the life of your lubricated components beyond what the factory fluid is able to accomplish.

The bottom line is that people need to get over their fear of warranty claims. If you use a high quality synthetic oil and your engine has a failure, you can rest assured that the failure would have occurred with the factory fluid as well, and that other owners will also be experiencing the same failure, most likely sooner than you would. Always remember that by law in the United States, the manufacturer is required to prove that your "modification" caused a failure in order to deny warranty work. They cannot simply deny it on the basis of you not using their oil.

Use a high quality synthetic oil in your vehicle and stop worrying about what will happen with the warranty. Your using a higher quality oil than what was originally filled in your vehicle will not cause a mechanical failure.
 
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