Chevrolet Cruze Forums banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
2018 Cruze diesel, manual hatchback RS. 38,000 miles.

I’ve been dealing with an intermittent cold start issue where the car will feel like it’s stalking and bucking really bad for 60 seconds or so and clears right up.

It used to be real faint, intermittent. Happening only on cold starts below 60f degrees. 1/5 times

Then it became real faint happening intermittently above 60f. 1/5 times

At about 25,000 miles it became 3/5 times or so, and the shuttering and bucking became more pronounced

Since then it has gradually increased. Lately it is every cold start and the bucking feeling is so pronounced I would describe it as a jarring loss of acceleration. Like the feeling of running out of fuel, crossed with a misfiring rhythm

So far no dealer can diagnose it but I popped my intake tubing open and this is what I found. I’m wondering if this is possibly a cause of this issue? A stuck or gunked up egr?

If it is, I think by looking at the egr housing I could probably get it off myself and diy clean it. I was wondering if anyone had any alldata or similar literature to tell me how to do this? For instance I’d hate to take it off and have coolant gush out or damage a gasket that I can’t get from GM during the pandemic restrictions

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
303 Posts
I will try to send you the AllDataDIY job for the EGR cooler later today. Definitely get ALL gaskets needed first because one of them took a month to arrive for me and I think someone else had a gasket take even more than that. As for whether the symptoms are related, I'm not really sure, but in general a stuck open EGR can cause hesitating and bucking. When you first start up and are at idle the intake air bypasses the EGR cooler to help the car warm up, so if it's not doing the bucking right away until you start moving that could be why. My EGR and cooler were heavily clogged and I had no driving symptoms or CEL (and tons of dealer visits with no DTCs, one DTC finally came up which is how it got replaced). Maybe yours is just worse enough to cause enough restriction that is actually leading to symptoms ... or your valve could be stuck in more open position. Either way it's sure not good to be clogged like that.

Can you clarify where this photo is on the car? Just curious since having my EGR and cooler didn't solve my problem (frequent regens) so I'm always wondering if there's somewhere else I should check or monitor for re-clogging.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
215 Posts
I think possibly glow plugs could be an issue here. That reminds me of my VW Rabbit diesel in the old days.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I think possibly glow plugs could be an issue here. That reminds me of my VW Rabbit diesel in the old days.
The issue is happening even on days where temps are in the 80s, I’m inclined to believe it might not be glow plugs but it’s something I’ll keep in mind


I will try to send you the AllDataDIY job for the EGR cooler later today. Definitely get ALL gaskets needed first because one of them took a month to arrive for me and I think someone else had a gasket take even more than that. As for whether the symptoms are related, I'm not really sure, but in general a stuck open EGR can cause hesitating and bucking. When you first start up and are at idle the intake air bypasses the EGR cooler to help the car warm up, so if it's not doing the bucking right away until you start moving that could be why. My EGR and cooler were heavily clogged and I had no driving symptoms or CEL (and tons of dealer visits with no DTCs, one DTC finally came up which is how it got replaced). Maybe yours is just worse enough to cause enough restriction that is actually leading to symptoms ... or your valve could be stuck in more open position. Either way it's sure not good to be clogged like that.

Can you clarify where this photo is on the car? Just curious since having my EGR and cooler didn't solve my problem (frequent regens) so I'm always wondering if there's somewhere else I should check or monitor for re-clogging.


This photo was taken where the intake charge pipe meets the egr on the top of the engine. I popped the clip off with a flathead, removed the pipe and pushed it to the side and saw the spot inside my intake where the egr goes into the intake. Sorry for the description, I don’t have a photo of where it is
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
303 Posts
The issue is happening even on days where temps are in the 80s, I’m inclined to believe it might not be glow plugs but it’s something I’ll keep in mind






This photo was taken where the intake charge pipe meets the egr on the top of the engine. I popped the clip off with a flathead, removed the pipe and pushed it to the side and saw the spot inside my intake where the egr goes into the intake. Sorry for the description, I don’t have a photo of where it is
I think I can picture it now, so it's looking into the throttle valve, right? I'll have to look at it on mine. I think they cleaned it up when they replaced the EGR valve and cooler on mine. I have seen tutorials on cleaning the intake throttle assembly on the Gen 1 and I assume it would be similar on ours. Same with cleaning the EGR valve. The cooler I think would be more complicated but might be possible. I sent you a PDF via PM, let me know if it doesn't work.
 

·
Premium Member
2014 Cruze Diesel, 2007 Cobalt, 1981 Camaro Z28, 2017 Volt
Joined
·
4,307 Posts
Sounds absolutely like what the 1st gens like to do when the EGR valve starts to get sticky - before it sticks open and prevents the car from starting.

I consider the cleaning of the EGR valve (and throttle valve) to be regular maintenance on these vehicles - been meaning to do ours again, as it's been about 30-40k miles since the last time I did it, and the car runs a bit rough at startup, so it is time for it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
I was thinking about this and was thinking the sticky EGR throws off the pilot injection.

The pilot injection is where a tiny bit of fuel is injected and combusted to initiate combustion in a calm way to eliminate the classic diesel clatter

With the EGR not functioning as it should the combustion doesn't happen cleanly during the pilot injection - so the main combustion that happens later presents a knock as if the pilot injection never happened.

The rough running is due to main injection not going well either. Air fuel mix is off.woth sticky EGR

Sum of two issues gives you clatter and rough running.

I have had this happen in my car and turning off ignition and restarting resolves issue (for now)....

Thanks for the pics. I am definitely going to clean my egr asap. I saw a video with best solvent to use for cleaning. Will find it again and post it up.

Jeff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
By the way. I purchased a new EGR valve from trunk monkey parts with the gaskets. The cost was around 75 for the valve.

I am going to replace EGR valve and then clean the take off part and out it on the shelf for the next time around

The EGR cooler is more then $200 so I will remove and clean and out it back on....

Jeff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
303 Posts
I will add to this that in addition to cleaning the EGR and throttle assembly, check out your MAP sensor. Mine was awful at 27k miles. Honestly inside my intake looks terrible too, at least in my assessment, about the same as my Mercedes looked at 250k miles (it also has an EGR and CC vent system that dumps in oil and soot). Not blocked just gross all over the walls. I'm actually surprised oil level never goes observably down at all given how much oil is in the intake, though I guess a little goes a long way once mixed with soot on those walls. Taking the intake off and cleaning it would be a huge task so hopefully cleaning the other items is sufficient. As noted in my other thread I had some codes come up after unplugging the MAP sensor and cleaning it but they didn't seem to come back once cleared ... I will update on that as time goes on in that thread. I don't think mine was actually bad enough to cause problems, despite how it looks, but if it's really caked it could be throwing off fuel metering or other things in the balance. It reads both manifold pressure and temperature.
Below is my MAP sensor and what my intake looks like now ... the EGR and cooler were replaced 1,200 miles ago and the EGR pipe that enters the intake manifold was cleaned. So those things are relatively clean but the intake EGR pipe is already starting to gunk up again. The EGR valve itself, I guess looks OK ... I'm assuming they get a layer of soot around the surfaces pretty quick normally. I will monitor over time. I don't know if all of this is typical or if my car is unusually bad. I would think it would be a little better off as much as I have it on the highway but maybe it's the opposite ... I don't need much throttle most of the time on the highway so maybe it's not getting run hard enough. I also doubt it helped early on having the wrong oil put in it by the dealer. My car has had longstanding issues since then (coincidence or not) as noted in my long regen thread. I don't think I will ever know. It is frustrating because I use the car for what everyone says it is made for, the highway, yet have soot-related problems that are more typical of a car used for short trips and left idling.
Anyhow, I could definitely see the soot buildup eventually leading to the kind of problems @Carminooch and others are having, so hopefully cleaning will resolve them for you guys. From my observations it is certainly feasible that soot could reach troublesome levels without causing a CEL. Like Jeff noted the EGR valve is not very expensive so it wouldn't be prohibitive to buy another one and have a rotation without having to do the whole cleaning process on a time constraint. Luckily the EGR is easily accessible on these cars; on my Jeep is is buried and a huge job.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
318 Posts
By the way. I purchased a new EGR valve from trunk monkey parts with the gaskets. The cost was around 75 for the valve.

I am going to replace EGR valve and then clean the take off part and out it on the shelf for the next time around

The EGR cooler is more then $200 so I will remove and clean and out it back on....

Jeff
Did you need any gaskets with the EGR Valve?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
303 Posts
Did you need any gaskets with the EGR Valve?
There is a rubber gasket for the valve assembly itself. When I took mine out to inspect it I reused the gasket (since mine is 1k miles old) but when you replace the valve the gasket is supposed to be replaced. For the pipes that go from the EGR cooler into the intake, there are two gaskets and one of them was the one that took GM a month to supply for my car ... I believe that is the type you replace any time it is removed ... so if you're removing that pipe to clean, plan way ahead ordering the gaskets.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
924 Posts
The cooler is a lot more work to get off than that outlet pipe, which is what's visible in your photo. There's no special procedures required to remove the cooler itself though, it's just that it's a little down there on the head. Honestly you could probably get by without replacing the gaskets if you had to. They all are technically supposed to be replaced though. I've never attempted to clean on of these coolers, but most GM coolers tend to not respond particularly well to he based cleaning procedures once they are good and gunked up. Alright Purple Power or an oven cleaner tend to work best.
Commercial cleaning with specialized solvents, heated agitation tanks is often required, and can vary wildly in price depending on where you live, both methods involve potentially lots of your time and some of your money. A new cooler should be under $250 only you know how much your time and effort are worth, and whether "possibly" cleaning it is an acceptable outcome
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
318 Posts
The cooler is a lot more work to get off than that outlet pipe, which is what's visible in your photo. There's no special procedures required to remove the cooler itself though, it's just that it's a little down there on the head. Honestly you could probably get by without replacing the gaskets if you had to. They all are technically supposed to be replaced though. I've never attempted to clean on of these coolers, but most GM coolers tend to not respond particularly well to he based cleaning procedures once they are good and gunked up. Alright Purple Power or an oven cleaner tend to work best.
Commercial cleaning with specialized solvents, heated agitation tanks is often required, and can vary wildly in price depending on where you live, both methods involve potentially lots of your time and some of your money. A new cooler should be under $250 only you know how much your time and effort are worth, and whether "possibly" cleaning it is an acceptable outcome
Thank you for that Maven. Is there any way to clean the whole intake after the valve?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
This is also what I’m wondering, what kind of procedure is involved to remove the intake to deep clean it

I take my car to a new dealership tomorrow so I’ll update back here.

Dealership #3 seemed responsive and empathetic to the amount of time I’ve put into trying to figure this out. Said they’d entertain letting me park the car anywhere to make it hesitate and buck. Looked at pics/video of my egr, so we’ll see

I’d be thrilled if they replaced the egr and egr cooler assembly but I’d settle for a cleaning as long as they do the intake piping as well
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
303 Posts
Thank you for that Maven. Is there any way to clean the whole intake after the valve?
I am curious about this as well, or if it is necessary. When I had the EGR and cooler replaced last month the dealer cleaned out the area around where the EGR pipe enters the intake, but not deeper into the intake. I did ask them if they thought I had to worry about the intake being filled with anything given how bad the rest was and they did not think it was a concern. They seemed to know their stuff so I trust it is maybe not worth the invasiveness of cleaning it (i.e. maybe it always ends up looking like it does now?). But I overthink things and worry about the overall health of my engine, especially since I've seen four times as many regens as anyone else who's driven my distance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
303 Posts
This is also what I’m wondering, what kind of procedure is involved to remove the intake to deep clean it

I take my car to a new dealership tomorrow so I’ll update back here.

Dealership #3 seemed responsive and empathetic to the amount of time I’ve put into trying to figure this out. Said they’d entertain letting me park the car anywhere to make it hesitate and buck. Looked at pics/video of my egr, so we’ll see

I’d be thrilled if they replaced the egr and egr cooler assembly but I’d settle for a cleaning as long as they do the intake piping as well
It's promising that they were empathetic, that goes a long way. Especially when you have been dismissed over and over, just having someone take you seriously is a relief. I hope they can recreate the symptom and solve it finally.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
924 Posts
Removing the manifold is even more time consuming than removing the cooler. I would absolutely replace the gaskets if you remove the intake. Bonus of taking the manifold off is that you can also clean the crankcase ventilation passages. The intake manifold can likely be easily walnut blasted by a machine shop, you could also use purple power, spray nine, or gasoline to clean it. I don't know if I'd let it soak for hours though, I'd probably have a strong soak bucket, and a rinse bucket, and go back and forth every 15-20 minutes. I've never long term soaked one of the plastic manifolds, should be okay though.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top