Chevrolet Cruze Forums banner

1 - 20 of 44 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,296 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
One thing Edison did do is to commercialized work that already has been done by scientist and inventors years before him. But have to give him credit for this, without him, all this stuff already done years before him would still be setting on the shelve.

Was Micheal Faraday that discovered and published moving a conductor through a magnetic field would induce an electrical current, but his work was a linear motion. Rotating this conductor in a magnetic field was far more logical. But that wire was going up,then down reversing its direction constant inducing an alternating current.

Since it was already known by Volta that a sufphuric acid battery could be charged by only a direct current, Istvan (Ányos) Jedlik in 1827 invented a clever commutator brush switching arrangement to output only the positive alternations. And was not a true DC current, but a pulsating one. Edison got hung up on this. And yes, 2,000 volts DC will kill you just as quick as 2,000 volts DC. The static magnetic field was generated by a fixed stator coil around this rotating armature. Not very practical, as the armature has to be made much smaller and produce large amounts of current through commutators and brushes.

Tesla realized this so simply reversed it, perfectly logical Put the high current output in the fixed stator, and rotate this magnetic field that is much weak inside of it. The same exact principle is used in our automotive alternators. But until the early 60's, we were still using generators with very low output currents. Chrysler went back to the alternator only after the silicon diode was invented to convert this AC back to DC that the battery requires to stay charged.

For reasons too complicated to explain, cannot apply a pulsating DC voltage to a transformer, would burn it up, but AC sure works fine. Another natural law that Tesla used based already on the well known formula, Power equals voltage time current. By raising the voltage substantially, the current goes way down that will lose power over any conductor making long distant power transfer economical, then at the location, stepped down again.

He did play with varying frequencies but with a view of transmitting electricity wireless, never did work worth a darn but inspired Marconi to work in this field based on Tesla's work, wasn't until around 1940 that Tesla was credited with inventing radio. But their work would have been worthless if it wasn't for DeForest back in 1903 inventing the amplifying triode vacuum tube. All this stuff about getting energy out of the earth as yet to be scientifically proven. Think he went a tad bit mad.

Kettering is the guy that applied these principles to the spark ignition, using a small turns ratio transformer more commonly known as a coil working on the rapid decay of a magnetic field. And also the developed a starter and a generator for automotive electrical systems. The name, Dayton Engineering Laboratories Co. was shortened to DELCO that was soon purchased by GM.

At this time, was considered to be more profitable to make everything yourself and not pay a middleman, but this sure changed.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,496 Posts
Tesla has always been my hero. I feel as though we robbed him so hard... Mainly JP Morgan just like he robbed everyone else. I hate that he gets this wrap about being crazy because he would wipe all his silverware, but if you know anything about Tesla he got violently ill from cholera so he started practicing strict cleaning methods for himself. The man was depressed and for good reason. To this day his Ideas work inventions are smeared with BS. I dont care what anyone says about the guy he is my hero.
 

·
Resident Forum Drunkard
Joined
·
9,264 Posts
So are there any of Teslas inventions being utilized in practice in this modern day ?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,296 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Westinghouse complained to Tesla about the high patent royalty cost he was paying to Tesla, but he responded by tearing up the contract. He died a very poor man. Can't blame JP Morgan too much, invested a lot of money to generate "free" electricity! Not a very good investment.

AC induction motor is in extreme wide use today invented by Tesla, a fixed two phase stator that inherently generates a rotating magnetic field, Rotor was very simple, no brushes consisting of shorting bars at each end that would have an induced current producing a counteractive magnetic field that kept up with that rotating field. Would last forever if the bearings are well lubricated. Ha, have several of these made in the USA that still run like new after 50 years.

A so-called brushless DC motor operates the same way, except some dirt cheap chops up the DC current to generate a quadrature rotating magnetic field. Should be using this type of motor in particular with our in-tank fuel pumps. But using a cheap permanent magnet limited life brush type motor they charge us a huge fortune for. That can go at any time. So you wonder why we have problems.

Can't even add a 50 cent access plate so you can replace it without dropping the tank. If they want to make a 1,000% profit, would be more than happy to pay 5 extra bucks for a new vehicle to save all this unnecessary work.

Then the most famous one is the Tesla coil, that in reality is only good for making sparks. Have a small one that only outputs 100KV. If I hold a common fluorescent tube close to it, it will illuminate without any wires hooked up to it. My kids say wow. But not nearly as efficient as hard wiring it to a ballast transformer.
 

·
Resident Forum Drunkard
Joined
·
9,264 Posts
Wieless charging stations for cell phones and such devices also Nick !
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,296 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Yeah, just a transformer, primary on the AC side, secondary inside of the device. Actually cheaper to make, don't have to supply a cord, and can charge more for the convenience.

Ha, use to work with Bell Labs on the development of touch tone, got rid of tons of very expensive stepping relays that required crews to keep them working. Solid state was a heck of a lot cheaper, but charged more for touch tone then dial up.

Ha, look at flat screens a few years ago, several thousand bucks for a 46" screen. New technology and practically all a printing press operation, much cheaper both material and labor wise than a CRT. But new.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,296 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Too bad Tesla didn't choose 120Hz or even 400Hz like aircraft use, our transformers and motors would be just a fraction of their present 60Hz size. When we could ship to Europe with their 50 Hz, transformers had to be made quite larger/

While we have switchmode power supplies for our toys at home where a 3 ounce ferrite core can replace a ten pound transformer. Have to think about the millions of huge transformers with all that iron and copper required for power transfer.

A lot of our electrical infrastructure is already over a hundred years old, maybe time to change. Think of all the copper and iron that would be left over.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,718 Posts
A lot of our electrical infrastructure is already over a hundred years old, maybe time to change. Think of all the copper and iron that would be left over.
Higher frequencies run into transmission line problems. The series inductance and capacitance starts to become an issue. Then there's skin effect that makes the effective power line resistance larger.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
391 Posts
Tesla has always been my hero. I feel as though we robbed him so hard... Mainly JP Morgan just like he robbed everyone else. I hate that he gets this wrap about being crazy because he would wipe all his silverware, but if you know anything about Tesla he got violently ill from cholera so he started practicing strict cleaning methods for himself. The man was depressed and for good reason. To this day his Ideas work inventions are smeared with BS. I dont care what anyone says about the guy he is my hero.
His name should be used in the same way Einsteins is, he was an awesome individual.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,296 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Made in China induction AC motors are sure crap, least the ones I have seen so far.

Insufficient turns and poor magnetic core material, run much hotter, saturation current is high, and efficiency is much lower than made in USA motors.

Stators aren't even sealed in varnish, those magnet wires see the same torque as the rotor,, rub, and short out.

What can I say about the bearings, also made in China.

Blower motor in my then new furnace was this way, took it apart and dabbed the stator windings with electrical varnish, got made in the USA bearings, designed a ballast type electronic circuit to reduce the motor voltage, actually down to 102 volt to handle that saturation problem. Tested it with my photo tach, didn't even slow down the blower, but sure saving me some money on my electrical bill.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,340 Posts
Nick we put 52 motors into a 19 storey building downtown. We also put in variable speed drives for them. They're LEESON brand and 3 of the drives were no good out of the box and they're supposed to be high efficiency motors but they draw the same amperage and weigh just as much as the 40 year old ones we have removed.

If you haven't guessed yet they came from China and the building manager is now angry that he even spent the money on them.


Sent from the sexy electrician
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,296 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
This baby so far cost me 4 bucks per year, already 50 years old and still works like new.

View attachment 146649

A tool I use practically everyday. We are really getting screwed blue from this crap made in China, know several guys with a China air compressor that lasted barely over a year. Price is cheap, but costing them 250 bucks per year.

Wasn't exactly trouble free, several times had to clean the contacts in the regulator, but have so much meat on them, have enough left to clean them several more times. Had to replace the original belt about two years ago, stretched out and ran out of slots to tighten it up again. Then last year the check valve was leaking, but had so much rubber on it, put it in my lathe to remove about 10 mils off off it to get to fresh rubber.

My kids blower only lasted a little over a year, called me with my grandkids freezing, was under warranty, took it in for a free replacement. But the old stator windings were toast, so dabbed his new motor with electrical varnish, this was around five years ago.

For a capacitor start and run motor, should try to hit 90 degrees, but lucky to get 70. Have a good HVAC guy, strongly recommended I stay away from a variable speed motor. Four speeds is more than enough. I did add industrial relays to mine, expecting those cheap Made in China PCB mounted relays to switch 8 amps with a heavy surge current. That was another problem with my kid's furnance, fried his board to toast. Added buffers to his as well.

With mine, added a bit of relay logic, blower runs full time on the lowest speed, keeps the house fresh, when heat is called for switches to speed 2, if a higher demand is requires switches to speed 3, if AC is called for, switches to speed 4. Nothing wears a blower motor quicker than starting it off dead, surge currents are very destructive.

Also don't know why they mount this control board to the blower motor housing, with vibration, couldn't have picked a worse spot, and a PITA to remove the blower for servicing. Was going to mount mine to a side mounted junction box, haven't did this yet. Sure a bunch of wires on this with 1/4" spade terminals, but at least tagged those wires.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,296 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Thin grain oriented steel M6 laminations should be used in induction motors. Have to be properly annealed and oxidized, otherwise would be generating lots of eddy currents in the core and the magnetizing force would be fighting the hard spots. So get high excitation currents and heat. Seen motors that are far more effective as a space heater than generating a mechanic force.

What the US has, is some of the finest steels in the world, China has to import whatever junk we have. But what seem to be lacking is steel mills, thanks to the EPA for this, rather than solving problems, export these.

The core is just the start of designing a good motor, also good oxygen free copper wire with a very high temperature insulation coating.

Just the start as to why you are having problems. And far cheaper to design a good motor that would last for years, then to save a couple of bucks and replace them every five minutes.

Some of the best motors were made in the 1920's-30's, the cost of electricity was quite high back then. Ha, needed a crane to lift even a 5 HP, where a so-called 5 HP made in China can be lifted with one hand. The physics has never changed since then.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,340 Posts
Yup, they've definitely gotten smaller. A 5-10hp was like 60-100lbs. The 60hp however was 583lbs and we tried with 4 of us before we used a come along before one of us tripped in the mechanical room and had a huge motor land on us.


Sent from the sexy electrician
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,296 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Can't beat three phase for efficiency and economy, too bad we can't get this in our homes. Refrigerators, AC conditioners, blower motors, fans, washers and dryers, would all benefit.

But we have a congress that likes to pick on an LED on a cell phone.
 
1 - 20 of 44 Posts
Top