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Discussion Starter #61
My local dealership texted me to say the EGR cooler assembly has arrived. I've got to set up an appointment to get the car to them for 4-5 hours and we'll see what happens. I'm going to be asking the service department guy if this new part has any changes (updated part numbers) to see if there are differences from the stock EGR cooler.
It is a new part number. I'll try attach pictures of the new and old. The numbers are different. Old first, new second.
284449
284450
 

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Well some activity on another thread reminded and inspired me to call my dealer and see if they had a delivery date estimate and make sure they hadn't lost my ticket, and according to them they had my cooler for about a week but just sent it back because they didn't know what to do with it because the service guy assigned to my ticket had left no instructions and has been fired since I was in for the diagnostics three months ago.

Not sure if that's true but the firing of that guy makes sense based on all my previous experience with him. Of course they could just be trying to cover up that they lost the order and ticket entirely as well knowing this dealer (I only use them because I can practically walk there from work during the day.)

Anyways, the part that y'all might be interested in is that the dealer is now claiming that when they re-order the parts they are being told 2-3 week lead time.
 

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Well, 9 months and 12,000 miles after my first trip to the dealer to start this mess I finally have the car back with the new EGR cooler housing installed. They also have a replacement EGR valve listed as parts used, but no o-ring or gasket set. So far so good. As others have described, my CEL was actually off when I went in, and has been off for some time, (recent winter temperatures maybe keeping it below the error threshold?) but they pulled the code from the on board history and went ahead with the repair.

The service report does say - and I'm paraphrasing here - that to complete the repair the tech should fill the def tank, force a regen, and check the NOx sensor functionality. So while nobody seems to be having issues, it would seem to me that there could potentially be long term issues if those have to be checked (and confirms my suspicion that it's the regen cycle that triggers the P2457 in the first place, hence why the CEL comes and goes.)
 

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Related to checking nox sensors and related to my most recent repair...

I didn't get a descriptive service write up - but service advisor told me that my nox sensors were replaced with an updated part during my last repair. That repair consisted of replacing a plugged catalytic converter and subsequently needed nox sensors updated.

All is well now - after months of plugged dpf issues.... Car got clogged up by extremely short trips while my daughter had car at college for ~10 months....

As a sidenote, I now have car back from my daughter and it is at home; I have new job where I won't have a commute (I work from home now...) - so will be running renewable diesel to avoid issues with dpf. This will also keep egr and egr cooler cleaner....



jeff
 

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That'll do it. No time for a proper regen to clean it out
 

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That'll do it. No time for a proper regen to clean it out
Yeah. I knew her use model for the car might be a problem; But thought a good drive on the highway like a trip to california (from oregon) would clear it out.. I didn't realize the cat would become plugged with "no way out" and need replacement...

In addition, as a precaution I am going to remove egr valve to inspect and clean. And switching to either straight or blend of renewable diesel for cleaner combustion.

jeff
 

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Discussion Starter #67
Yeah. I knew her use model for the car might be a problem; But thought a good drive on the highway like a trip to california (from oregon) would clear it out.. I didn't realize the cat would become plugged with "no way out" and need replacement...

In addition, as a precaution I am going to remove egr valve to inspect and clean. And switching to either straight or blend of renewable diesel for cleaner combustion.

jeff
When you say "cat" I assume you refer to the DPF? It's all the same unit, then there is the SCR where the DEF reacts to scrub NOx, that is the one under the car, the DPF is right in front of the engine block.
 

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When you say "cat" I assume you refer to the DPF? It's all the same unit, then there is the SCR where the DEF reacts to scrub NOx, that is the one under the car, the DPF is right in front of the engine block.
Not sure - I picked up car early and they didn't have service write up for me - I need to ping them to send it to me.

jeff
 

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My car decided to join the P2457 club today. I never got a CEL. I actually took it to the dealer to beg them to look into my frequent regeneration problem that's been going on for over a year, and they found the DTC. It wasn't there the last time my car was at a dealer on Feb. 24, or any other of the numerous times I've had it at dealers. Annoying timing because now have to replace the EGR Cooler and send me back to drive it more before I can bring it back and have them try to diagnose the regen issue (which makes sense, obviously they can't diagnose when there's a known issue unfixed). They told me the parts should be there around Monday, so hopefully this means they're available now. They are sending me home with the car in between so it will be interesting to see if it actually triggers a CEL. This is the first normal problem my car has had, ha!
 

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Discussion Starter #70
My car decided to join the P2457 club today. I never got a CEL. I actually took it to the dealer to beg them to look into my frequent regeneration problem that's been going on for over a year, and they found the DTC. It wasn't there the last time my car was at a dealer on Feb. 24, or any other of the numerous times I've had it at dealers. Annoying timing because now have to replace the EGR Cooler and send me back to drive it more before I can bring it back and have them try to diagnose the regen issue (which makes sense, obviously they can't diagnose when there's a known issue unfixed). They told me the parts should be there around Monday, so hopefully this means they're available now. They are sending me home with the car in between so it will be interesting to see if it actually triggers a CEL. This is the first normal problem my car has had, ha!
Interesting.. all 3 of mine had the CEL and code. With the last one I waited too long to have it read at the dealership and it cleared before they could see it, even cleared from historical. Something seems quite wrong about not getting a CEL, unless it was only in a pending status when they read it. Too much EGR could lead to excessive regens.
 

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Interesting.. all 3 of mine had the CEL and code. With the last one I waited too long to have it read at the dealership and it cleared before they could see it, even cleared from historical. Something seems quite wrong about not getting a CEL, unless it was only in a pending status when they read it. Too much EGR could lead to excessive regens.
Yeah it really confused me. The light was definitely not on because I've been watching it closely since the recall thinking I might get a regen-related light. Nothing showed on my SGII either. They had the car all yesterday and called me this morning to say they found the code. I had just looked at my pending codes maybe three or four days ago too and SGII didn't pick up anything. The dealer listed just the one code and not any codes for the EGR valve itself but hopefully they will find any issues with the EGR system in the process of the cooler job. I was wondering if a blocked cooler could cause backpressure that would throw off the DPF readings ... or if too-cool exhaust gases are preventing the car from passive regens. I have to think any of these issues would have resulted in a code somewhere over all these months though. Though I do wonder if the recall software could have changed the sensitivity to the parameters that trip this. The timing does make me think.
 

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Discussion Starter #72
Yeah it really confused me. The light was definitely not on because I've been watching it closely since the recall thinking I might get a regen-related light. Nothing showed on my SGII either. They had the car all yesterday and called me this morning to say they found the code. I had just looked at my pending codes maybe three or four days ago too and SGII didn't pick up anything. The dealer listed just the one code and not any codes for the EGR valve itself but hopefully they will find any issues with the EGR system in the process of the cooler job. I was wondering if a blocked cooler could cause backpressure that would throw off the DPF readings ... or if too-cool exhaust gases are preventing the car from passive regens. I have to think any of these issues would have resulted in a code somewhere over all these months though. Though I do wonder if the recall software could have changed the sensitivity to the parameters that trip this. The timing does make me think.
Come to think of it, my dealer did find a code for a bad injector, that one never appeared as a MIL/CEL light, and did not come up on an OBD 2 scan, and I never noted any problem, nor any loss of MPG, so it appears there can be "hidden" codes that can exist which we are not seeing with a standard OBD 2 scan. Perhaps it is something like that if not a pending code.
 

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Come to think of it, my dealer did find a code for a bad injector, that one never appeared as a MIL/CEL light, and did not come up on an OBD 2 scan, and I never noted any problem, nor any loss of MPG, so it appears there can be "hidden" codes that can exist which we are not seeing with a standard OBD 2 scan. Perhaps it is something like that if not a pending code.
Interesting, it sounds like that kind of scenario. I guess there is information the computer just sort of sets to the side to wait and see what happens before "deciding" whether to throw a CEL. It does make me wonder if the code was in there before and the other dealers could have missed it. The print outs I have from the GDS data have a field for DTCs and specifically say there are none ... but I don't know if that's the same type of code as what showed up for this dealer.

As it turns out logistically I'm going to have to just leave the car there until the parts come Monday. I can't get anyone to help me go get it until Friday and I'd just have to recruit someone to help bring it right back Monday. I have a bunch of old cars to drive in the time being. I would have been curious to see what happened over the next few days before the repair. I will update after the repair if anything seems different.
 
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Update: Still waiting for the part(s). I stopped by the dealer yesterday to get my iPod out of the car, and the service manager said GM is still telling him the parts are en route. I am thinking maybe there is some transit slowdown because of the whole virus scenario. I really like this dealer so far so I feel hopeful about the actual work, just need the parts. In the meantime I'm still leaving the car there since it would likely be doing a fair amount of sitting here anyway.
 
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Update: Still waiting for the part(s). I stopped by the dealer yesterday to get my iPod out of the car, and the service manager said GM is still telling him the parts are en route. I am thinking maybe there is some transit slowdown because of the whole virus scenario. I really like this dealer so far so I feel hopeful about the actual work, just need the parts. In the meantime I'm still leaving the car there since it would likely be doing a fair amount of sitting here anyway.
I'm sure they will use that excuse, and it might be valid, but they have a horrible supply chain when there is no excuse. It took months to get the first one of mine done.
 

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I'm sure they will use that excuse, and it might be valid, but they have a horrible supply chain when there is no excuse. It took months to get the first one of mine done.
Yeah, that is my worry ... that GM could be just BSing the dealer and it never shipped. My friend just had basically that exact scenario from Chrysler with his truck ... dealer was told the part had shipped and then two days later told it was on infinite back order ... it's the touchscreen radio and it's so complex the truck is undrivable without it. Unfortunately I think the red tape and miscommunication is the new normal for carmakers in general. But GM seems to have spectacularly widespread issues providing any parts which leaves me less than optimistic. If it's on back order I just want GM to say that, so I can just get the car back and drive it.
 
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Yeah, that is my worry ... that GM could be just BSing the dealer and it never shipped. My friend just had basically that exact scenario from Chrysler with his truck ... dealer was told the part had shipped and then two days later told it was on infinite back order ... it's the touchscreen radio and it's so complex the truck is undrivable without it. Unfortunately I think the red tape and miscommunication is the new normal for carmakers in general. But GM seems to have spectacularly widespread issues providing any parts which leaves me less than optimistic. If it's on back order I just want GM to say that, so I can just get the car back and drive it.
Point well made, it is not isolated to GM. I was doing some research recently on the massive rise in prices of larger vehicles, and the now common 84mo car loan. What it told me is we have a new bubble with cars and car loans.. People are having problems making payments on cars far too expensive for them in the first place, this before the Corona virus. The OEMs are hiking the prices on the bigger lower MPG cars that are in demand, and people continue to buy them, even when the really can't afford them.. and this because for smaller cars, and EVs, the sell them at a loss in many cases, because CAFE standards require them to do so. In the case of FCA, the decided to not even try anymore, and started paying TESLA for credits so they can not meet CAFE and get credits from TESLA who but selling EVs gets credit for high MPG (even when they are EVs and no accounting is done for the shift in pollution to coal fired power plants.. but I digress). This came up because of the insane cost of new pick-up trucks.. I was being advised to just get a new truck instead of upgrade my existing, but frankly the numbers make no sense to do that, not even close.. I could dump a ton of cash into my current paid off truck and still be saving money based on the insane cost of the new trucks. The comparison I gave to demonstrate how CAFE standards have driven this outcome was to point out my 2009 truck was 38K new, and now you can't touch one for less than $60K, yet my 1996 Saturn was 12.5k new, and I can go buy a similar small car today for about 14K new, so the cost of the high MPG cars adjusted for inflation has actually gone down, and it seems pretty obvious they make little if any money on them, Cruze included. It's no wonder GM and Ford are going out of the Sedan business, they are likely better off doing what FCA does to pay for credits, or just pay the EPA fines, instead of lose money by selling the high MPG small cars that few people are wanting to buy (many do, but the market is very competitive). The real profit is in SUVs and up, so they need to offset the losses on small cars they basically give away, but hiking the prices on the cars in demand, that are low MPG in general.. and here we are. Even with that it's clear they are in a bind.

Having said all that, you get to the efforts to cut costs everywhere possible, and warranty service work and parts support are bound to take a hit, not just GM but all OEMs. They only lose even more money there when they likely broke even or lost some selling us these cars in the first place. I kinda figured this out, and it was one reason I have as many cars as I do now, I was pretty sure they were not going to be available for long, especially the diesel, when gas prices are pretty low. The demand just was not there. And it turns out that is what happened.

All this is making me look at keeping up older cars longer, and with some parts getting cheaper, and doing my own work, that makes good economic sense... Now if I can manage to get my old 60s Land Rover back out on the road.. I can literally hand crank start that thing, talk about low tech, it literally has 2 fuses on the original wiring harness..
 

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All this is making me look at keeping up older cars longer, and with some parts getting cheaper, and doing my own work, that makes good economic sense... Now if I can manage to get my old 60s Land Rover back out on the road.. I can literally hand crank start that thing, talk about low tech, it literally has 2 fuses on the original wiring harness..
Yep, that's kind of where I'm leaning too. To be fair, I've always liked classics better, and daily drove my 87 Mercedes for years even when I owned a newer car ... but it was more about the charm, and I took the newer car on longer trips or where I just really needed something I didn't have to worry about. When I bought the Cruze I was looking forward to having that again; my previous new car in 2005 came with the experience that when something went wrong, it was basically hassle-free, I didn't really even have to know how anything in the car worked, and I don't think it was ever gone for more than two days for repair. I did expect the Cruze to have issues, but it's not really the car itself that has been a surprise ... I was genuinely surprised at how poor the customer service model is, and that people actually wait months for a brand new car to be fixed under warranty. All with really just a shrug from the manufacturer ... it isn't even remarkable to them. Also the amount of the car's function that depends on computers/programming is next-level too, compared to 2005. That part I expected but not quite to this extreme. With the Cruze at the dealer right now I'm driving my 78 Mercedes, 95 Mercedes, and 82 Peugeot ... I do miss some of the creature comforts of the Cruze, it's relative speed, and it's fuel economy ... but the old ones get me there and generally when something breaks it's just a matter of blocking out the time to fix it. I mean, go figure, Peugeot is long gone from the US, there isn't such thing as official service for them here anymore, but it's easier for me to get parts and fix that car than the domestic sedan I bought less than two years ago.
The state of the current automotive economy is bizarre beyond words in my mind. I loved the excitement of buying a new car, and ordering exactly what I wanted, but it will be the last one I buy new if I can avoid it. I don't share the faith in the "unerring certainty of machinery" that others put into computers and electronics, especially not at the exclusion of human knowledge being invested into designing and servicing vehicles. And as far as I can tell, warranties are half-useless now ... like health insurance has become, they're basically just a catastrophic fallback plan ... not there for regular reassurance that your car will be kept in proper repair.
 
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Yep, that's kind of where I'm leaning too. To be fair, I've always liked classics better, and daily drove my 87 Mercedes for years even when I owned a newer car ... but it was more about the charm, and I took the newer car on longer trips or where I just really needed something I didn't have to worry about. When I bought the Cruze I was looking forward to having that again; my previous new car in 2005 came with the experience that when something went wrong, it was basically hassle-free, I didn't really even have to know how anything in the car worked, and I don't think it was ever gone for more than two days for repair. I did expect the Cruze to have issues, but it's not really the car itself that has been a surprise ... I was genuinely surprised at how poor the customer service model is, and that people actually wait months for a brand new car to be fixed under warranty. All with really just a shrug from the manufacturer ... it isn't even remarkable to them. Also the amount of the car's function that depends on computers/programming is next-level too, compared to 2005. That part I expected but not quite to this extreme. With the Cruze at the dealer right now I'm driving my 78 Mercedes, 95 Mercedes, and 82 Peugeot ... I do miss some of the creature comforts of the Cruze, it's relative speed, and it's fuel economy ... but the old ones get me there and generally when something breaks it's just a matter of blocking out the time to fix it. I mean, go figure, Peugeot is long gone from the US, there isn't such thing as official service for them here anymore, but it's easier for me to get parts and fix that car than the domestic sedan I bought less than two years ago.
The state of the current automotive economy is bizarre beyond words in my mind. I loved the excitement of buying a new car, and ordering exactly what I wanted, but it will be the last one I buy new if I can avoid it. I don't share the faith in the "unerring certainty of machinery" that others put into computers and electronics, especially not at the exclusion of human knowledge being invested into designing and servicing vehicles. And as far as I can tell, warranties are half-useless now ... like health insurance has become, they're basically just a catastrophic fallback plan ... not there for regular reassurance that your car will be kept in proper repair.
Excellent points made there, completely agree. Is that Peugeot a Diesel? We had a Peugeot Diesel Station Wagon in the early 80s and drove that and the 62 Land Rover across country in about 81 or so.. ironically more trouble with the Peugeot, well electrical. The alternator went out, and no way to get parts for that in the deep south in the 80s for sure.. so charged the battery at night, and drove during the day.. the engine was all mechanical and didn't need power to run, kind of like my diesel tractor today, totally EMP ready. That thing could care less about power once it was running. They did well on the mechanical, but they were known for electrical gremlins. Also noted same on the computerization, even my 2004 Land Rover Discovery is with 7 separate computers, but pretty simple compared to current vehicles out there. If I ever get the time it would be an interesting project to take a low tech mechanical diesel and fit it in my 1996 Saturn and have a low performance car that could get fantastic MPG and be extremely reliable. I've run into all kinds of issues working to figure out emissions issues on my 2009 Cummins, the early systems were much worse than what we have in the Cruze, and that is saying something given the challenges there. That said, the cost of a new truck is not an option, and that 11 year old truck is still valued in the mid 20K range.. its crazy.. perhaps the economic collapse we are facing will change that somewhat.
 

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Excellent points made there, completely agree. Is that Peugeot a Diesel? We had a Peugeot Diesel Station Wagon in the early 80s and drove that and the 62 Land Rover across country in about 81 or so.. ironically more trouble with the Peugeot, well electrical. The alternator went out, and no way to get parts for that in the deep south in the 80s for sure.. so charged the battery at night, and drove during the day.. the engine was all mechanical and didn't need power to run, kind of like my diesel tractor today, totally EMP ready. That thing could care less about power once it was running. They did well on the mechanical, but they were known for electrical gremlins. Also noted same on the computerization, even my 2004 Land Rover Discovery is with 7 separate computers, but pretty simple compared to current vehicles out there. If I ever get the time it would be an interesting project to take a low tech mechanical diesel and fit it in my 1996 Saturn and have a low performance car that could get fantastic MPG and be extremely reliable. I've run into all kinds of issues working to figure out emissions issues on my 2009 Cummins, the early systems were much worse than what we have in the Cruze, and that is saying something given the challenges there. That said, the cost of a new truck is not an option, and that 11 year old truck is still valued in the mid 20K range.. its crazy.. perhaps the economic collapse we are facing will change that somewhat.
My Peugeot is a diesel, the naturally-aspirated four-cylinder with a four-speed manual ... so I think about as simple as it can get. It had some emissions equipment that is not functional (not intentionally) and I am not even sure how that system was supposed to work. I bought the car last August for $1,800 and have been really happy with it ... it's a survivor, not perfect but good driver condition. It has a few little modifications that work around some known issues ... a bypass fuel filter and a re-wired ignition switch. So far all I have had to do is the clutch slave and master cylinders. I'm going to replace the brake master cylinder as well as the brakes are a little squishier than I'd like, and give it a new battery. So far I've gotten 26-27 mpg on the two tanks I've driven it ... not Cruze TD numbers but really not bad considering I use it for local driving more than highway. They have their quirks but I think at this point they are distinctly an enthusiast's car, which means enthusiasts have found ways around their glitches. The parts and information availability in the internet age makes a huge difference, too.
I've heard that about the early Cummins (or any diesel) trucks with the emissions bells and whistles, that they were a nightmare. I don't know what I'd do if I needed a truck. No way I could afford anything these new days, let alone with the diesel. Or even used. I make a decent living and the Cruze seemed like a lot for me. So I don't know how any regular person can afford a new truck.
 
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