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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Only use 91 octane ethanol free gas in my Cruze. In the last month or so, its up 55 cents, looked at my older receipts.

But what is 55 cents today? Not even a down payment on what use to be a nickle candy bar.

But this is not my concern, when are these constant price increases going to end? Will we be back up to $4.55 a gallon again.

Did the auto companies get this surprise price decrease so they could dump all their huge stock on SUV's and pickup trucks? If so, I am glad I didn't buy one, couldn't afford to drive it.
 

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Just bend over and try to enjoy it. Gas prices fluctuate here by up to $.30 a gallon on a weekly basis. Yesterday it was $2.04/gal. for 87E10. Today, I filled up for $2.29/gal. The only E0 gas around here is at marinas and I can't drive my cars out onto the docks.
 

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Gas at one station in town yesterday morning was up to 2.37 or 2.39 - late that afternoon it was back to 2.06. I just let Scarlet sip on plus - E-free when I'm feeling rich - and accept it.
 

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Shoot I burn 93 Octane from Shell ...I'm cool with that ......
 
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Yeah, the 93 Premium ethanol free gas price at the SOUTHERN STATES I go to has increased by 31 cents over the last month. I'm sure it'll go up some more throughout the summer but getting the high grade ethanol free stuff for CeCe is worth it, haha!
 

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That's the cost for being an AMERICAN citizen....you can thank your local, state, and federal elected politicians for that....Good luck !!!
 

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Nothing to see here, this is the time of year the gas prices always go up. Looking though my records from previous years expect the prices to max out by the end of June. Some of this increase is summer gas changes, but one has to wonder if its more about profits during the summer vacation season. Price always drops a week after the 4th of July.

All prices are monthly averages for premium gas.

2013 - March $3.78, June $4.28
2014 - 2 cent difference (I ran E15 half the time for April-June to offset cost)
2015 - March $2.69, June $3.15
2016 - March $2.35, June TBD
 

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Yeah, the 93 Premium ethanol free gas price at the SOUTHERN STATES I go to has increased by 31 cents over the last month. I'm sure it'll go up some more throughout the summer but getting the high grade ethanol free stuff for CeCe is worth it, haha!

I've never been able to find ethanol free 93 octane, however the 91E0 available in my area runs much worse than 91E10 or 93E10 with both my 2012 cruze and 2015 sonic 1.4T. These engines like ethanol and it will help keep your engine clean. Never heard of CeCe, think I would stick with top tier gas if I were you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Does E10 burn cleaner than real gas? They say it does, I do know trying to find ethanol gas in Milwaukee is next to impossible.

Is it reducing global emissions? Not according to the people living in Stanley, WI with a huge ethanol plant, constantly complaining about health problems due to its emissions. So maybe a false conclusion would be the politicians are not solving emission problems, but just moving out of Milwaukee into rural areas.

They claim just as much fossil fuel is consumed to make ethanol, so where is the gain? Also heard about state and federal subsidies as much as $1.78 per gallon to keep the price of ethanol down. State of California is notorious to move all coal burning plants out of there state into Nevada that is not doing a thing for the total emissions, but just moving their problems across the state line.

Up here, we use to see rolls of corn that you could walk through, now so densely planted, impossible. Using lots of supplements that some say will kill the land so nothing will grow. Also saying farmers, mostly corporation owned farms now, can make a lot money money selling corn than feeding it to a cow, so creating a food shortage and prices are skyrocketing.

Maybe Milwaukee is getting a bit of cleaner air, no proof of this, this is just what they say. But one thing for sure, people up here are paying a severe price for this.
 

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Yeah last tank I bought was shell 93 at 2.799 a gallon and that is w/o the Kroger discount. Came up to @ 20 for the tank. I typically fill up between 1/2 and 1/4 tank left. I remember sitting in the back of parents car during OPEC in the 70s and the gas lines seeing .799/.80 a gallon for gas thinking the world was going to end bc gas prices so expensive. God forbid when it broke $1.00 a gallon. That was for the regular(leaded) stuff before unleaded. Unleaded was .10 more a gallon.
 

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Does E10 burn cleaner than real gas?
You can test it yourself, ever burn alcohol? Burns nice and clean with no smoke at all. Try the same thing with straight gas, burns with black smoke and leave a soot residue. Ever look at the internals of an engine running E85? no engine deposits at all even after 100,000 miles. Deposits form in engines running during the combustion process because gasoline is a dirty fuel.

Ethanol subsidies stopped in 2011, however they were replaced with the RFS(renewable fuel standard). The RFS just guarantees XXX number of gallons of ethanol to be produced each year ensuring the price of corn remains high, so farmers and ethanol producers don't loose a dime. With the USA running E10, its equal to removing 7 million cars from the road. Sure its takes some energy to produce, but what doesn't?

The plant you mentioned does trap Co2 and make animal feed besides fuel, as do most if not all other producers. There is no shortage of food caused by ethanol, Period. Health problems caused by ethanol plant emissions? I call BS. Only emissions leaving the area is the smell of fermentation(smells awesome in a moonshiners kinda way). Educate yourself, its an interesting read. About Ethanol - Ace Ethanol LLC


http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/members/219-spacedout-album415-misc-picture193866-about-ethanol2.jpg
 

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I've never been able to find ethanol free 93 octane, however the 91E0 available in my area runs much worse than 91E10 or 93E10 with both my 2012 cruze and 2015 sonic 1.4T. These engines like ethanol and it will help keep your engine clean. Never heard of CeCe, think I would stick with top tier gas if I were you.
CeCe is the name of my Cruze, haha! I was under the impression that E0 gas (especially 93) was better for performance and MPG? Is this not the case for our 1.4T engines? If not, I'll just start getting 91/93E10 from Shell, Exxon, and/or BP.
 

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Octane rating is the resistance to pre-ignition or pinging. Cars that have high compression ratios or forced induction tend to make 87 explode before the spark plug ignites it. The cruze has sensors that monitor pinging and adjust the timing to run whatever you put in it. I've noticed with my ultra-gauge that it retards timing under boost and WOT with shell 87 octane and tends to require a lot more throttle input to maintain speed vs shell 93. When I use shell 93, I get better response, better performance under engine load, and I also get better efficiency which offsets the cost difference almost perfectly.

Now I run shell 93 in my car permanently.
 

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I was under the impression that E0 gas (especially 93) was better for performance and MPG? Is this not the case for our 1.4T engines? If not, I'll just start getting 91/93E10 from Shell, Exxon, and/or BP.
In my area we have many gas stations with both 91E0 and 93E10 on the same pump. With my 2012 cruze filling from the same pump over thousands of miles and only saw a 0.8MPG improvement using no ethanol gas, since it cost more than typical premium it was not worth the difference in cost. You will gain more MPG by adjusting your driving habits & routes.

One would think any fuel labeled as 91 octane would behave the same since it has the same octane rating, yet I see much less knock events when its E10 vs E0. I can't imagine 93 octane would be much different in this regard, my guess whatever chemical they are using to bump up the octane is not as stable in high temp/boost environment as ethanol is.


http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/members/219-spacedout-album698-stuff-picture81145-mobil-91-93.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Well aware that alcohol burns cleaner than gas, got my kids those German made steam engine toys, safe to run inside of the house.

But not burning pure alcohol in our vehicles, still 90% gasoline, okay 10% of something is still better than 10% of nothing.

Alcohol and gasoline do not mix to form a homogeneous substance. Try this at home, pour 90% gasoline in a Mason jar, and 10% alcohol, shake it then let it sit, alcohol is heavier than gasoline, it will settle at the bottom. Don't believe the BS you read, try it and learn it for yourself. It has to be constantly stirred, with the fuel pump at the bottom to pick up fuel and driving slowly on a very smooth road, can consume that alcohol first.

Or can happen when you fill up, just get a very low alcohol content or none at all and just ending up with a very low octane fuel. Speaking from experience. Fluids that absorb moisture are hygroscopic, alcohol is one of these as is brake fluid that causes corrosion, alcohol mixes far better with water than gasoline, prove this at any bar, but don't drink too much of this stuff, its not good for you.

It also dissolves plastic and neoprene, ha, use it to give a belt some more life, but leave it in long enough, won't be anything left of it. So just can't use conventional materials for even E10. Sure loves to corrode brass, very common in fuel injectors on older engines, in particular on small engines. Mercury and what's left of OMC sure have had their share of problems with E10 and so has my motorhome and Supra. Supra cost me over a thousand bucks to repair doing it myself.

This is what my fuel pump looked like.

View attachment 193922

And my fuel sender.

View attachment 193930

Didn't take photos of the rest of it, at one time E10 was all you can buy.

Don't read BS, drive up to Stanley, WI and talk to the people living there for their bad air. Also talk to farmers with the hardship of trying to produce meat or milk. Apparently, you are the victim of reading way to much BS pushed by these so called green people. Hail, just visit your grocery store.
 

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Well aware that alcohol burns cleaner than gas
If that is the case how is that hard to understand how 10% ethanol reduces emissions?

Alcohol and gasoline do not mix to form a homogeneous substance. Try this at home, pour 90% gasoline in a Mason jar, and 10% alcohol, shake it then let it sit, alcohol is heavier than gasoline, it will settle at the bottom. Don't believe the BS you read, try it and learn it for yourself. It has to be constantly stirred, with the fuel pump at the bottom to pick up fuel and driving slowly on a very smooth road, can consume that alcohol first.
That's the biggest load of BS I ever heard, are you thinking of phase separation(water and gas layer)? Alcohol and gasoline mix and stay mixed nicely. Phase separation was an issue before ethanol ever was in the mix, don't you remember adding those bottles of "heat"(alcohol) to your gas tank in the winter to eliminate this Gasoline/Water issue? The reason that's no longer necessary is 10% ethanol in our fuel. That tiny 8oz bottle of Heat could handle some water, E10 can handle even more.

Or can happen when you fill up, just get a very low alcohol content or none at all and just ending up with a very low octane fuel. Speaking from experience. Fluids that absorb moisture are hygroscopic, alcohol is one of these.
87E10 is made starting with 84 octane gas, so yes running low octane regular this can happen if enough water is introduced into the mix. Keeping the tank as full as possible(avoids condensation in the tank) & filling from a high volume station eliminate this possibly. If you fill with 93E10 its starts life as 91E0, so if phase separation did occur(rare these days with sealed gas tanks) the lowest octane fuel your car would see is 91(and a mix of water and alcohol).


Supra cost me over a thousand bucks to repair doing it myself.

This is what my fuel pump looked like.

View attachment 193922

And my fuel sender.

View attachment 193930
Your fuel pump looks like that because you left your car parked long term with less than a half tank causing condensation and eventual rusting of the pump(would have happened with E0 fuel). Besides we are talking about an almost 30 year old TOYOTA... they still have not improved their fuel systems to the level they should be. Just for reference, GM uses all modern materials and tanks, lines and injectors all are compatible with ethanol and have been for 25 years. Ethanol gas only has a shelf life of 90 days in a sealed tank, half that in older cars. Any car going to storage needs a fuel stabilizer or E0 fuel, period. All new modern small engines are designed to run E10 fuel, however since these devices typically sit unused for months at a time, its still better to run E0 in those as well.

Don't read BS, drive up to Stanley, WI and talk to the people living there for their bad air. Also talk to farmers with the hardship of trying to produce meat or milk. Apparently, you are the victim of reading way to much BS pushed by these so called green people. Hail, just visit your grocery store.
If there was an air quality issue, why is there no news about it? Believe me I looked, and can fine no issue with any Wisconsin ethanol plants. Fuel cost for quite a few years was driving out farmers, drought in the west caused a massive slaughter of cattle flooding the market driving down the prices of meat to the point it was not profitable to raise cattle. Now with less producers and ever increasing demand the prices are back up(at least for the consumer). Milk prices are low and have been for almost a decade, this also makes milking not profitable unless your a commercial sized farm.

I know its hard to believe, I used to think just like you and it took me quite some time to realize how wrong and outdated most of the "Facts" the anti-ethanol crowd claim. I'm on the fence still about global warming, but the way I think we all should look at it is this.... If we do nothing the problem will only get worse, however there is no harm in trying to reduce emissions and clean up the environment which creates jobs as well.
 

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It seems like the gap between regular and premium just continues to increase.

I remember back when I had my IROC, the gap was always $0.20/gal. I ran the car on regular, as it only had a 9.5:1 compression ratio and didn't need anything higher.

My Cobalt, however, being supercharged, requires 93 - but back in 2009 when I put the blower on, the gap was still $0.20...it's more like $0.30 to $0.50 now...absolutely irritating.
 

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It seems like the gap between regular and premium just continues to increase.

I remember back when I had my IROC, the gap was always $0.20/gal. I ran the car on regular, as it only had a 9.5:1 compression ratio and didn't need anything higher.

My Cobalt, however, being supercharged, requires 93


that is what I was thinking in my mind. when gas was low @ $2 super was .30-.40 more then reg gas. when it's over $3 it's about .40-.50 more. IMO reg gas should be $1.95 $2.25 super . I know my state LOVES taxing everything & this doesn't help. I can only imagine all the taxes for gas from the ground to pump, all combined in one number per 10 gallons
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Ha, how about two cents more per gallon for high octane back in the 60's. Had no choice to use it with a 10.5:1 CR vehicle or would get detonation. Could use the high octane stuff in an 87 octane vehicle and really see improvements if you changed the spark advance curve for a longer combustion cycle, and was well worth the two extra cents.
 
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