[Tomko]

So yesterday the DIC brings up the following message:

Exhaust Fluid Quality Poor

See Owner's Manual Now

Speed Reduced in ...

Fortunately I was only 10 minutes away from the dealership so I drove it straight there.

I last added DEF 11 months ago from the bulk dispenser at a truck stop. Three days ago I checked the DEF level in the DIC and it said OK.

My dealership could find no codes so they called TAC who instructed a forced regen and replacement of the DEF tank reservoir.

So I now have P/N 23377881 installed and everything seems fine.

They gave a 2017 Cruze as an overnight loaner. It was a lower trim model but I appreciated the updated Chevy mylink hardware. The new touch screen is much more like an iPad in its tactile response as opposed to the deliberate push required of the one in my 2014. As well, the XM radio was capable of tuning the new higher number channels. I was listening to channel 311, Yacht Rock.

The repair and rental were covered at no cost to me by my GMPP.

Oh yeah, I have 51,500 miles on the odometer.

 

[oilburner]

So yesterday the DIC brings up the following message:

Exhaust Fluid Quality Poor

See Owner's Manual Now

Speed Reduced in ...

Fortunately I was only 10 minutes away from the dealership so I drove it straight there.

I last added DEF 11 months ago from the bulk dispenser at a truck stop. Three days ago I checked the DEF level in the DIC and it said OK.

My dealership could find no codes so they called TAC who instructed a forced regen and replacement of the DEF tank reservoir.

So I now have P/N 23377881 installed and everything seems fine.

They gave a 2017 Cruze as an overnight loaner. It was a lower trim model but I appreciated the updated Chevy mylink hardware. The new touch screen is much more like an iPad in its tactile response as opposed to the deliberate push required of the one in my 2014. As well, the XM radio was capable of tuning the new higher number channels. I was listening to channel 311, Yacht Rock.

The repair and rental were covered at no cost to me by my GMPP.

Oh yeah, I have 51,500 miles on the odometer.

is this an updated tank ??

 

[MP81]

is this an updated tank ??

That is the new reservoir, yes, replacing 22978800.

I have a new one sitting in my dining room that I bought for ours, until GM helped out and paid for the dealer to replace it when we had our problem.

 

[pandrad61]

Hmm wounder if the 2015 ctd like mine is updated #.. I just for first time topped mine off at the truck stop... Truckers looked at me wierd then they asked what the heck im doing. Showed them and they are like wtf they are even messing with small diesels

 

[IndyDiesel]

So what is the theory why your def tank failed? Think the heater element went out? Not even sure why it would heat the fluid in the summer?

 

[Tomko]

So what is the theory why your def tank failed? Think the heater element went out? Not even sure why it would heat the fluid in the summer?

I'm not sure I even have a theory.

Naturally the dealer first went to the obvious - bad DEF. But since the DEF tank hadn't been filled since October 2015 - and the bad DEF caution never appeared before - it was hard to argue that the DEF was bad. I did ask if they tested the DEF and was told that they didn't have a DEF tester. That surprised me.

But I don't get why TAC instructed a forced regen. I didn't think that the DPF and DEF injector were related.

If the tank heater element was faulty then it would have set the appropriate code. But there were no codes.

Maybe the DEF pump in the tank was flaky?

Maybe the revised tank part number was intended to address occurrences like this?

Another mystery to me was how my dealership was able to place their hands on a new DEF tank so quickly. I brought my car in around 2:30 on Thursday afternoon. By 8:30 Friday morning the car was fixed. With people waiting months to get this part how could my dealership do it in 18 hours?

My service advisor told me that they added new DEF to my reservoir - but the invoice doesn't mention this or any related part numbers. Maybe they had a partial bottle available in the shop and just dumped it in for good measure. FWIW, today the DIC says DEF level OK.

I am very glad to have a close relationship with my dealership and that they trusted me when I truthfully told them that the DEF was last filled 11 months ago from the bulk dispenser at the truck stop. I think a lot of dealerships would have called BS on that and claimed (falsely) that I had contaminated my DEF tank with questionable fluid.

To be honest, if I was working on their side of the counter, I think that I would have done just that and blamed the operator.

 

[IndyDiesel]

I'm not sure I even have a theory.

Naturally the dealer first went to the obvious - bad DEF. But since the DEF tank hadn't been filled since October 2015 - and the bad DEF caution never appeared before - it was hard to argue that the DEF was bad. I did ask if they tested the DEF and was told that they didn't have a DEF tester. That surprised me.

But I don't get why TAC instructed a forced regen. I didn't think that the DPF and DEF injector were related.

If the tank heater element was faulty then it would have set the appropriate code. But there were no codes.

Maybe the DEF pump in the tank was flaky?

Maybe the revised tank part number was intended to address occurrences like this?

Another mystery to me was how my dealership was able to place their hands on a new DEF tank so quickly. I brought my car in around 2:30 on Thursday afternoon. By 8:30 Friday morning the car was fixed. With people waiting months to get this part how could my dealership do it in 18 hours?

My service advisor told me that they added new DEF to my reservoir - but the invoice doesn't mention this or any related part numbers. Maybe they had a partial bottle available in the shop and just dumped it in for good measure. FWIW, today the DIC says DEF level OK.

I am very glad to have a close relationship with my dealership and that they trusted me when I truthfully told them that the DEF was last filled 11 months ago from the bulk dispenser at the truck stop. I think a lot of dealerships would have called BS on that and claimed (falsely) that I had contaminated my DEF tank with questionable fluid.

To be honest, if I was working on their side of the counter, I think that I would have done just that and blamed the operator.

Thanks for the back story. I think service advisors probably know when we are sharing bad information, I will be taking mine for service in the next 30 days. I have slowed down on the short trips in my CTD, use it more for road trips. What type of driving do you use your CTD for?

 

[Tomko]

Thanks for the back story. I think service advisors probably know when we are sharing bad information, I will be taking mine for service in the next 30 days. I have slowed down on the short trips in my CTD, use it more for road trips. What type of driving do you use your CTD for?

It gets a pretty good mix of city and highway. But the past two months there's been a ton of construction around here so it is mostly stop and go, even on the highway.

 

[diesel]

Reading through all of this makes me wonder if the reservoir contains not only a heater, but the sensor to determine if the DEF quality is poor? I seem to remember that it was a combination of sensors that checked something before and after DEF injection and compared the values. Anybody know?

 

[Tomko]

Reading through all of this makes me wonder if the reservoir contains not only a heater, but the sensor to determine if the DEF quality is poor? I seem to remember that it was a combination of sensors that checked something before and after DEF injection and compared the values. Anybody know?

As I recall there is no DEF quality sensor per se. There are sensors that measure the outcome of DEF treatment and in that way the efficacy of the DEF itself is assessed.

Perhaps this is changed with the new part number. But doing so would imply a programming change. And no where on my work order does it mention any software updates or programming.

 

[MP81]

Another mystery to me was how my dealership was able to place their hands on a new DEF tank so quickly. I brought my car in around 2:30 on Thursday afternoon. By 8:30 Friday morning the car was fixed. With people waiting months to get this part how could my dealership do it in 18 hours?

DEF tank or DEF reservoir?

They had the reservoir for our car in a day or two.

I think the tank is what had the long wait, not the reservoir.

 

[revjpeterson]

Reading through all of this makes me wonder if the reservoir contains not only a heater, but the sensor to determine if the DEF quality is poor? I seem to remember that it was a combination of sensors that checked something before and after DEF injection and compared the values. Anybody know?

As I recall there is no DEF quality sensor per se. There are sensors that measure the outcome of DEF treatment and in that way the efficacy of the DEF itself is assessed.

Perhaps this is changed with the new part number. But doing so would imply a programming change. And no where on my work order does it mention any software updates or programming.

The elements of the reservoir are the heater and level sensor. The quality is determined by comparing the readings of the NOX1 and NOX2 sensors to see if it correlates with the commanded output from the DEF injector. If NOX 2 is not adequately reduced from the reading at NOX1, then the quality message will display. I'm sure there are intervals, EGT readings, and ambient temp criteria built in that conditions must be in place to set the message as well, but not sure what they are. Whenever I have checked the NOX sensor levels with my scanner, I have always seen a NOX2 reading of "0", so I assume that any presence of NOX gasses at NOX2 will trigger a quality message, provided all other conditions are within spec.

 

[Tomko]

So it came back this morning.

Same situation as last time. First start up on a cool morning. 20 minutes later poor exhaust Fluid caution in the DIC. No MIL.

Took it to the dealer. Can't get to it until Monday. They gave a Fiat 500L for a loaner. A real POS.

 

[IndyDiesel]

So it came back this morning.

Same situation as last time. First start up on a cool morning. 20 minutes later poor exhaust Fluid caution in the DIC. No MIL.

Took it to the dealer. Can't get to it until Monday. They gave a Fiat 500L for a loaner. A real POS.

I don't think I would accept that as a loaner, my life is too precious to drive that toy car

 

[Tomko]

I don't think I would accept that as a loaner, my life is too precious to drive that toy car

I concur. But it was my wife who was handling things as I was preoccupied with another commitment across town.

They'd promised her an equinox but enterprise drove up in the Fiat. She called enterprise after getting back home and they told her the regional manager would call her on Monday. I'm guessing that she'll hit the powerball before she gets a call back from anyone in authority from enterprise.

First world problems.

 

[diesel]

Not to derail the thread, but I've had pretty good luck with Enterprise. They should bring you out a replacement.

 

[CruzeDan]

There is a service bulletin for an issue like this. Have you had any issues with your cruse control? Has your ECM ever been reprogrammed? The jist is that the DEF Fluid Quality Poor message can be caused by a "software anomaly". The other symptoms are the cruise control disengaging at low speeds or when traveling down hill. The solution is reprogramming the ECM with the newest program. Since your car has already had parts thrown at it, this might be the cause. I also do not know why they replaced anything involving the DEF tank, because as mentioned, the redundant isn't actually tested in itself, just the output. So one of the sensors would be the issue if it was a part, not anything in the tank. Matter of fact, I just reviewed the symptom tree, and the tank or reservoir isn't on it at all.

 

[Tomko]

There is a service bulletin for an issue like this. Have you had any issues with your cruse control? Has your ECM ever been reprogrammed? The jist is that the DEF Fluid Quality Poor message can be caused by a "software anomaly". The other symptoms are the cruise control disengaging at low speeds or when traveling down hill. The solution is reprogramming the ECM with the newest program. Since your car has already had parts thrown at it, this might be the cause. I also do not know why they replaced anything involving the DEF tank, because as mentioned, the redundant isn't actually tested in itself, just the output. So one of the sensors would be the issue if it was a part, not anything in the tank. Matter of fact, I just reviewed the symptom tree, and the tank or reservoir isn't on it at all.

Never had a reprogram on ECM to my knowledge.

No cruise control problems. It works as it has always.

 

[CruzeDan]

The doc said "and/or" for the cruse control issues. So they don't have to happen as well.

 

[Tomko]

So I got a call from my service advisor. He explained that their next step is to remove the existing DEF and refill with new DEF. (Which is not covered by GMPP as it is a consumable.)