Fuel Pump

10600 Views 14 Replies 5 Participants Last post by nb0616, Jul 21, 2017

nb0616

Discussion Starter · Jul 17, 2017

Has anyone upgraded their fuel pump or know of anyone know of anyone who has? What did they use? How did they do it? I was looking and i found that ZZP is offering the AEM high-flow intank fuel pump upgrade ( https://zzperformance.com/sonic/fueling/aem-high-flow-in-tank-fuel-pump.html ) and on AEM's site they offer the same pump but e85 compatible ( 320lph E85-Compatible High Flow In-Tank Fuel Pumps (Offset Inlet) | AEM ) .

My concern is that these are listed as "universal"... which is usually about as true as a "one size fits all" piece of clothing, it doesn't fit. I haven't heard one thing about upgrading fuel pumps besides McFab, who initially thought upgrading the BAP sensor would help but it ended up not working.

These are both 320lph, which seem excessively high... But I've kinda hit a wall here. I'm running the BNR GTX14 and I have the BNR flex fuel kit. I can't install that though until I find a better fuel pump.

If anyone has any advice, ways to resolve this or any info at all I would be very grateful to hear.

Thank you,

Nick

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NickD

· #2 · Jul 17, 2017

Not sure what you are doing, but also can find many external fuel pumps if you have the $$$$ to blow, also have fuel regulators, some are even adjustable, Cruze is stuck at 45 psi and is part of the fuel pump assembly, but so is the fuel lever sender. Another little problem.

Yet another little problem is mating it with the fuel evaporative system, your CEL will stay bright. Sure a problem with these ever since they moved the canister to the rear of the tank, exposed to water puddles and road salt. Purge valve freezes up.

obermd

· #3 · Jul 17, 2017

What are you trying to do? If it's to get more fuel to the engine this won't work. The Cruze is a torque managed drive. In other words the ECU will command specific fuel pulses for each cylinder to meet the torque needed to respond to the throttle position. A larger fuel pump won't change this.

Markj2222

· #4 · Jul 17, 2017

obermd said:
What are you trying to do? If it's to get more fuel to the engine this won't work. The Cruze is a torque managed drive. In other words the ECU will command specific fuel pulses for each cylinder to meet the torque needed to respond to the throttle position. A larger fuel pump won't change this.

He has a BnR tune, Re-cored GTX14 and wishes to run it hard on E85.
Im sure Obermd miss-read and doesnt actually believe that fuel pumps dont help 260+ whp cruzes on E85 with a large injector profile loaded in the ECU

I'm curious how well this pump drops in.

obermd

· #5 · Jul 17, 2017

Markj2222 said:
He has a BnR tune, Re-cored GTX14 and wishes to run it hard on E85.
Im sure Obermd miss-read and doesnt actually believe that fuel pumps dont help 260+ whp cruzes on E85 with a large injector profile loaded in the ECU

I'm curious how well this pump drops in.

I didn't realize OP has modified the car to run on E85 and with larger injectors. In this case a higher powered pump will definitely make a difference. Just ensure the fuel pump can handle the new injectors and that the fuel lines from the tank to the injectors can handle the extra volume and pressure.

nb0616

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jul 18, 2017

I'm running the bnr gtx14 turbo and I want to run a flex fuel kit. that's all i'm doing right now but i'm waiting for more upgrades (beyond bolt ons, if anyone ever makes them). though i heard some people say the stock fuel pump will work fine, the majority say no way... and I agree at 45psi there's no way the stock system will work. money is not an issue, but if i can save it i'd like to.

I agree the location in the rear of the tank brings on a whole mess of annoying problems.

carbon02

· #7 · Jul 18, 2017

There's a very early post done around 2012 from a member installing larger gas tank filler assembly into an ECO model. Search something like How to increase fuel tank capacity in ECO." The guy had pictures in his post. He had access to a lift though. The fuel tank comes out the bottom, there is no access door behind the rear seats in the GEN 1 Cruze.

If I recall the straps on the tank don't have to be fully removed. They are hinged into the body on one end. I believe the poster loosened the exhaust. Not sure if that's really required.

Username was firehawk I think. Haven't seen him around lately.

nb0616

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jul 18, 2017 (Edited)

I'm curious how well this pump drops in.[/QUOTE said:
I'm curious about that myself, if it even fits. I'm tempted to buy a junkyard assembly just to check the fit and how much wiring needs to be done.
I'm also worried about mating the fuel evaporator system as NickD pointed out.

I'm kinda surprised no one on either the cruze or sonic forums have dealt with this yet. We only have a few bolt ons available to use to gain real power. Given the time period this drive train has been out I figured this area would have already been thoroughly delved into. I know people have done something. MPFab is running an unknown fuel pump to me and VTuner's cruze has a GarrrettGT2252 turbo and is running e85 but is also running an unknown fuel pump to me.

Thank you all very much for responding! Hopefully we can continue to turn some stones and share info! I'll post all of my findings on this thread. I'd be grateful for any info at all so feel free to chime in

NickD

· #9 · Jul 18, 2017

Assume this is for offroad use, EPA has a $40K fine to a shop if they fool with the emissions system, but only 4,500 bucks if you do this yourself. Also a question of getting caught.

Several shops got hit with more than $40K fines for installing cat bypass pipes, legal to manufacture and even to advertise, but not legal to install. Have a congress that makes these laws, but doesn't give the cash to enforce them. Like illegal immigration, most are here with slightly overstayed visas, like 30 years. But sure check these if you apply for a green card, did this for my wife, if she overstayed her visa by just one day, would have been deported for ten years.

Just saying they have means to check stuff like this, but they just don't do it, same with automotive unless you are required for a yearly emissions check. This sure varies from town to town. Ha, look into this before moving, may be wise to purchase a home one block away.

Reactions: 1

nb0616

Discussion Starter · #10 · Jul 18, 2017

Yeah I only use it for "offroad driving" lol. I'm in Ohio. They got rid of emissions tests nearly a two decades ago. The cost of running the echeck system was not financially sustainable. Very few cars failed so they were making no revenue in citations. The EPA and the like, operate on the ridiculous notion that cars (and man kind in general) are responsible for climate change. It's an outright lie. I think we effect less than 1% of greenhouse gasses if i remember the number right. None the less, it's an extremely small number. The number one greenhouse gas is water vapor lol. you don't hear too many reports like that... if you do at all... Another giant elephant in the room everyone ignores is the natural methane layer that sits on the top of the ocean's surface.

At the very least, these cars need a catless downpipe. the enormous cat on the stock one right after the tiny turbo is ridiculous and unnecessary to say the very least. It's a 1.4 litre motor for heaven's sake!

nb0616

Discussion Starter · #11 · Jul 19, 2017

Well I guess I'm going to have to take the plunge and the hit to the wallet to see how this AEM pump fits into a separate stock fuel pump assembly. I don't know how or if I can work my way with the fuel pressure regulator. It kills me GM didn't take a conventional fpr in the fuel line in a similar fashion as the early 2000's Volkswagen 1.8t's for instance.

I am tempted to see if I can run a half a tank or less of e85 with 93 octane on my current setup in the meantime. I doubt the gains would be worth writing home about though.

nb0616

Discussion Starter · #12 · Jul 19, 2017

i always knew it was a returnless fuel system but i didn't know this tidbit about the variable pressure fuel pump;

The microprocessor behind the Electronic Returnless Fuel System electronically manages the delivery of fuel from the fuel tank to the engine. It is controlled by the brain of the Cruze’s fuel system – the fuel system/chassis control module. The control module can raise or lower the pressure in the fuel line by speeding up or slowing down the fuel pump. This allows the system to make more efficient decisions on the amount of fuel provided to the engine compared to vehicles with a standard fuel system whose fuel pump runs at full speed all the time.

The system reduces voltage to a point where the pump doesn’t deliver excess fuel. The lower fuel pump speed results in less power consumption, which reduces the electrical load on the alternator. That reduces the strain on the engine, resulting in increased fuel efficiency.

ughhhh! one thing after another!

nb0616

Discussion Starter · #13 · Jul 21, 2017

I talked to Jerry at BNR and he told me I can safely run e47 with the gtx14 (using the flex fuel kit) and get some pretty noticeable gains. He said they're working on a fuel pump but it's going to be awhile.

I like BNR's ready to go kits. They always put out quality products. Perhaps by the time it comes out we will have lightweight pulleys, maybe even a lightweight crankshaft or maybe even cams... who knows. I think I'm going to settle and wait. I don't have all the tools at my disposal that I used have to design the best fuel pump.

carbon02

· #14 · Jul 21, 2017

nb0616 said:
i always knew it was a returnless fuel system but i didn't know this tidbit about the variable pressure fuel pump;

The microprocessor behind the Electronic Returnless Fuel System electronically manages the delivery of fuel from the fuel tank to the engine. It is controlled by the brain of the Cruze’s fuel system – the fuel system/chassis control module. The control module can raise or lower the pressure in the fuel line by speeding up or slowing down the fuel pump. This allows the system to make more efficient decisions on the amount of fuel provided to the engine compared to vehicles with a standard fuel system whose fuel pump runs at full speed all the time.

The system reduces voltage to a point where the pump doesn’t deliver excess fuel. The lower fuel pump speed results in less power consumption, which reduces the electrical load on the alternator. That reduces the strain on the engine, resulting in increased fuel efficiency.

ughhhh! one thing after another!

I was just about to come back to this thread and mention what you have above. It appears you have access to the system descriptions/service manuals as well. I believe there's an entire fuel pump control module located in the trunk on the passenger side fender for control of the pump. Guessing that would have to be bypassed as well.

I'm not a huge wrench turner, but I've probably spent more time than I should have reading the system descriptions in the service manuals. The control strategy as written on paper is amazing for this vehicle. From a real life operational prospective some is good, some is bad. But it did deliver on the two goals of economical car that got 40 mpg (In the ECO trim) in 2011!

nb0616

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jul 21, 2017

carbon02 said:
I was just about to come back to this thread and mention what you have above. It appears you have access to the system descriptions/service manuals as well. I believe there's an entire fuel pump control module located in the trunk on the passenger side fender for control of the pump. Guessing that would have to be bypassed as well.

I'm not a huge wrench turner, but I've probably spent more time than I should have reading the system descriptions in the service manuals. The control strategy as written on paper is amazing for this vehicle. From a real life operational prospective some is good, some is bad. But it did deliver on the two goals of economical car that got 40 mpg (In the ECO trim) in 2011!

Yup. You have the basic gist of how the fuel system. The car, in my opinion, is absolutely an amazing engineering feat in itself as an eco vehicle. I've almost always driven performance geared vehicles. I bought the cruze as a daily driver and nothing more... However, the extreme lack of power irritated me to no end. Slowly I began to mod my cruze and have thoroughly enjoyed building a car not made for performance into something that is fun to drive... Not to mention it still functions perfectly as a spirited daily driver. I love to see people's reaction to see a seeming stock cruze that has some power to it. Always been a fan of sleepers myself. Aside from the BNR sticker covering my carmax logo and, in time, add a better suspension to it so the car may sit a bit lower than stock.

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