[RoninDusette]

Hi! So, let me start out with this: I am a full-stack developer and a life-long computer guy. I am a Linux user, server architect, etc etc etc. I have spent my whole life working with computers.

That being said, I am having a hard time finding any info on programming ECUs (without buying someone else's stuff). From looking at almost all of the legit tuning solutions, it seems as though you need to first dump the firmware from your specific ecu, get it modded (either by the device that probably patches the stock firmware or sending it to someone who will do that themselves, they send it back, and you upload it to the ECU). I have done similar things with modding gaming systems (specifically the "kamikaze method of hacking a 360; essentially bruteforcing it while it's powered on, drilling a small hole in the chip on the daughterboard on the drive until you cut a wire, which unlocks the firmware so you can dump, mod, and reload).

I have found some ECU emulators and some interface cables, but I really want to see what is going on. I actually used to tune my Hondas back in the day (hondata, AEM EMS, etc), so I am also pretty familiar with the basics of AFR, maps, timing curves, and all of that.

If anyone could point me in the right direction, I would love to learn more about doing this stuff. I ran into an issue where I installed a frikkin intake and, long story short, I set off the anti theft system, and couldn't start my car. I have been wanting to learn this stuff for years, but just forgot about it... until today. haha.

So yeah. Any info you got would be rad. I have searched all day, and have really not turned up anything definitive (really, if I could get ahold of the proper cable and software to interface and dump the firmware, that would be better than nothing.). If I have to JTAG an ECU, I will.

Thanks!
RD

 

[Blasirl]

What kind of mods are you planning?

 

[RoninDusette]

That is the thing; I dunno. Obviously others have managed to dump/mod/write to the flash storage on these devices. I am more interested in doing some discovery and seeing what I can actually do. Again, I am a frikkin geek and programmer, so naturally I want to tinker. haha. As far as "planned mods", I wouldn't mind basically being able to tune the **** out of the car (fuel maps and ign timing, 2-step, faux shift light with the dash, etc etc). I don't really have a goal. I am just curious and love to program.

Last night I did even more research and found some key terms to figure this out; seems that I need a j2534 pass-through device to actually dump/write to the onboard flash. A little pricey, but not terrible (I have seen MUCH worse. Lol. OBD2 ain't that bad).

I am looking for any direction at all, in any way (besides telling me to get bent. haha).

 

[Snipesy]

> j2534

That's just an API Standard. Nothing more. Nothing less. It has nothing to do with programming it. It's just something that allows the oem software to talk with aftermarket software.

It won't help you mod your car. Not directly anyway.

 

[XtremeRevolution]

HPTuners is your best bet for tuning this platform.

That being said, you should be aware the learning curve is very steep, the consequences are expensive, and this is a whole different animal than what you've tuned before. This is a torque based ECU with complex algorithms. You can't just tel it to make more boost. You have to be well prepared to spend MANY hours learning how to tune this ECU if you plan to go this route. There are established performance shops that have a decade or more of experience tuning high performance GM cars that have had difficulty making decent power on this ECU because of its complexity.

Unless you're prepared for a ton of research and a ton of work, I'd suggest looking into BNR's tuning services instead.

BNR Tune 2011-2016 Limited Chevrolet Cruze 1.4L Turbo

P.S. I'm an IT security systems engineer, and also have quite a bit of tuning experience with GM's 3800 supercharged platform. This is one ECU I have absolutely no desire to tune myself.

 

[RoninDusette]

> j2534

That's just an API Standard. Nothing more. Nothing less. It has nothing to do with programming it. It's just something that allows the oem software to talk with aftermarket software.

It won't help you mod your car. Not directly anyway.

I know. Actually it's more of a protocol, but yeah. Searching the webz without that term actually gave me no information. After that, I learned what I need to get to dump the flash memory and at least be able to analyze it. So yes, it would help me mod my car.


I want to be clear here; I am not looking for DIY power, per se. I am interested from an engineering POV. I want know how it works, where the mods are being done, etc. If I make power in the end (or even come up with my own solution?), cool. If not, that is fine as well. I am just curious.

 

[RoninDusette]

HPTuners is your best bet for tuning this platform.

That being said, you should be aware the learning curve is very steep, the consequences are expensive, and this is a whole different animal than what you've tuned before. This is a torque based ECU with complex algorithms. You can't just tel it to make more boost. You have to be well prepared to spend MANY hours learning how to tune this ECU if you plan to go this route. There are established performance shops that have a decade or more of experience tuning high performance GM cars that have had difficulty making decent power on this ECU because of its complexity.

Unless you're prepared for a ton of research and a ton of work, I'd suggest looking into BNR's tuning services instead.

BNR Tune 2011-2016 Limited Chevrolet Cruze 1.4L Turbo

P.S. I'm an IT security systems engineer, and also have quite a bit of tuning experience with GM's 3800 supercharged platform. This is one ECU I have absolutely no desire to tune myself.

I am also a network engineer (15+ years doing network security for ISP/MSP and server architecture), but I am also a seasoned developer, and know a dozen languages, and have no fear of learning more.

I will end up just buying a solution from one of the trusted guys, but I want to learn, experiment, etc. So, you saying I need to be prepared... I am. Not to make power (I mean, I do, and if I can, sweet), but if other programmers can do it, I don't see why I cannot at least learn how it works.

I find it disheartening that right off the bat, the last two responses were basically telling me not to waste my time. If the other guys had listened, you wouldn't have the tuning solutions that you have now. So, instead of trying to talk me out of something that I want to learn and discover, perhaps maybe point me to info (as some others have already done through PM)? I am not trying to be a d**k. Just saying; I want to learn, I used to tune, I am a programmer, very good with electronics (been working with them my whole life, and I am 33, programming at 9, and pen testing at 12), As far as the math behind it all; I also was in honours math classes and wanted to go attend university work my way towards becoming a particle physicist (WAY too much money for the likes of me).

So, be nice. haha. I really just want to learn. I already plan on buying a few extra ECMs, found some emulators, and am no stranger to hex editors.


Thanks,
RD

 

[Snipesy]

I am also a network engineer (15+ years doing network security for ISP/MSP and server architecture), but I am also a seasoned developer, and know a dozen languages, and have no fear of learning more.

I will end up just buying a solution from one of the trusted guys, but I want to learn, experiment, etc. So, you saying I need to be prepared... I am. Not to make power (I mean, I do, and if I can, sweet), but if other programmers can do it, I don't see why I cannot at least learn how it works.

I find it disheartening that right off the bat, the last two responses were basically telling me not to waste my time. If the other guys had listened, you wouldn't have the tuning solutions that you have now. So, instead of trying to talk me out of something that I want to learn and discover, perhaps maybe point me to info (as some others have already done through PM)? I am not trying to be a d**k. Just saying; I want to learn, I used to tune, I am a programmer, very good with electronics (been working with them my whole life, and I am 33, programming at 9, and pen testing at 12), As far as the math behind it all; I also was in honours math classes and wanted to go attend university work my way towards becoming a particle physicist (WAY too much money for the likes of me).

So, be nice. haha. I really just want to learn. I already plan on buying a few extra ECMs, found some emulators, and am no stranger to hex editors.


Thanks,
RD

It took the guys years at efilive and hptuners to make this stuff.

It then took even more years for individual tuners to actaully make respectable tunes.

 

[RoninDusette]

It took the guys years at efilive and hptuners to make this stuff.

It then took even more years for individual tuners to actaully make respectable tunes.

Yup, because they didn't listen when people told them to give up... Who said I wanted to make tunes for others? Who said I wanted to make money doing it? I said I want to learn... which is why I do what I do for a living and put food on the table.

I absolutely LOVE the negativity and assuming I will fail before I even try to frikkin LEARN. Ever think that maybe... just maybe... someone might actually help by learning? I also work with multiple open-source projects (ever use an Android? Most of the OS is open-source, developed by the community and industry leaders and badass coders who do this stuff for fun), so I guess I am used to more people being supportive when someone wants to learn a new language, framework, skill, whatever. If I wanted to hit 10s I would be driving my boosted CRX down the street. :/

Again, very disheartening that I am just looking for info on how this **** works and instead of saying "I don't know", cats wanna bump gums. Lol. I thought this was a Cruze forum, not Honda-Tech. hahaha.

Anywho, thanks to those that PM'd me info. If I do ever come across anything cool, I will share it, regardless of those essentially saying to "stfu and just buy it". It's a pursuit for knowledge, and that is how stuff like what you guys are telling me to buy works... people with a thirst for knowledge and a need to tinker doing so.

 

[Snipesy]

Yup, because they didn't listen when people told them to give up... Who said I wanted to make tunes for others? Who said I wanted to make money doing it? I said I want to learn... which is why I do what I do for a living and put food on the table.

I absolutely LOVE the negativity and assuming I will fail before I even try to frikkin LEARN. Ever think that maybe... just maybe... someone might actually help by learning? I also work with multiple open-source projects (ever use an Android? Most of the OS is open-source, developed by the community and industry leaders and badass coders who do this stuff for fun), so I guess I am used to more people being supportive when someone wants to learn a new language, framework, skill, whatever. If I wanted to hit 10s I would be driving my boosted CRX down the street. :/

Again, very disheartening that I am just looking for info on how this **** works and instead of saying "I don't know", cats wanna bump gums. Lol. I thought this was a Cruze forum, not Honda-Tech. hahaha.

Anywho, thanks to those that PM'd me info. If I do ever come across anything cool, I will share it, regardless of those essentially saying to "stfu and just buy it". It's a pursuit for knowledge, and that is how stuff like what you guys are telling me to buy works... people with a thirst for knowledge and a need to tinker doing so.

Uh well if you haven't done your research, you wouldn't know I've been down this road.

The skepticism is very well based. Maybe one day you will understand.

Unlike the diesel I worked on though, the gas PCM is extremely well documented from some leak many years ago. That means you simply need a method to read and write really. It can (and usually is) be done all through obd2. If you want to crack it open and solder some wires, you can do it that way too. It may even have programming and JTAG headers built in but I wouldn't count on it.

Also don't buy those expensive $10000 JTAG kits lmao. You just need a $15 usb adapter.

 

[Taxman]

Uh well if you haven't done your research, you wouldn't know I've been down this road.

Snipesy personally cracked the code on the 2.0 diesel, and is one of two I know of (the other being Fleece Performance Engineering) who have developed decent tunes (suitable for daily driving without issues) for it.

If you listen to one person on this forum with regards to the PCM, EFILive, or HPTuners, listen to him.

 

[RoninDusette]

Uh well if you haven't done your research, you wouldn't know I've been down this road.

The skepticism is very well based. Maybe one day you will understand.

Um, I am actually trying to do my research, and the others, like, you have been down this road, had to start somewhere. That is what I am doing. Also, the whole "maybe one day you will understand" bs... save that. No need to be cocky. You were being a **** when you actually know something about this stuff, and could have just pointed me in the right direction instead of acting all high and mighty. The next post says to listen to you; I will, and I want to KNOW how this stuff works. I don't care if I make a useful tune or not. I want to learn and get in there and dig around. I don't know why that is so hard to understand? I get it; you don't know me or my background, nor have a resume or references... That one day COULD be today... if you would let some of your sacred knowledge out instead of telling me to basically go f*** myself for even thinking or dreaming about possibly knowing something that you already know and could easily share...

That means you simply need a method to read and write really. It can (and usually is) be done all through obd2. If you want to crack it open and solder some wires, you can do it that way too. It may even have programming and JTAG headers built in but I wouldn't count on it.

Also don't buy those expensive $10000 JTAG kits lmao. You just need a $15 usb adapter.

Yes, I would NEVER get a kit ANYTHING like that. JTAG is a method, not a product. I know I just need an adapter. Beyond the interface, I want to know more. Any SDK of sorts? Some sort of compendium of common codes? Anything?

And thanks for that info. I am not kidding. Was that really that hard? It took multiple posts of you being cocky when you probably know a bunch about what I would like to learn about (again, for fun, not for money or anything. I am a ******* engineer. I like to play with things. haha. ). Like, why dude? If you have something to say besides "just don't even try, bruh. You can't hang", I will listen.

 

[RoninDusette]

Snipesy personally cracked the code on the 2.0 diesel, and is one of two I know of (the other being Fleece Performance Engineering) who have developed decent tunes (suitable for daily driving without issues) for it.

If you listen to one person on this forum with regards to the PCM, EFILive, or HPTuners, listen to him.

I believe you; I am just wondering why he told me not to even try, discouraging me, acting like no one but him could do something innovative, and now he wants to give advice? Lol.

Whaty would really piss people off is if I did come up with something dope, and gave it away for free, just to spite those that told me to don't even try. haha.

 

[Blasirl]

Gentleman - PLEASE! We really are a civilized nation in spite of what North Korea says!

 

[Snipesy]

Well if we are just going to morph my words into things I never said....

Wow. Thanks @Snipesy for the advice.

Your welcome.


The 'tuning' industry sucks. Which I have been vocal about before. Most people have no idea what they are doing, and those who do keep it hush hush. Yeah, that's the way it is. Blame the OEMs for making it so difficult, not me please.

 

[RoninDusette]

Gentleman - PLEASE! We really are a civilized nation in spite of what North Korea says!

haha. Word. Well, I will use the resources that I have been given and if I have anything to say, I will post about it. Thanks all.

 

[RoninDusette]

Well if we are just going to morph my words into things I never said....




Your welcome.


The 'tuning' industry sucks. Which I have been vocal about before. Most people have no idea what they are doing, and those who do keep it hush hush. Yeah, that's the way it is. Blame the OEMs for making it so difficult, not me please.

It's "you're".

And yes; the tuning industry sucks and people play it close to the vest... why? Probably because of a sense of entitlement they have. They know something the other doesn't, and likely get off on it. OEMs make it difficult, yes, but when a fellow electronic nut who actually DOES know their stuff asks the community, why make it harder? Why create yet another hurdle? That isn't much of a "community" if anyone who doesn't meet the guru's standards is discouraged to learn about it. Honda heads do that stuff, too. I know because I owned a performance shop and dealt with them all of the time. The DSM community? Not at all. jbody cats? Nope. They are cool too. Focus tuners? Eh, it's hit and miss.

I mean, if there is a test or something to take to prove that you are worthy of the knowledge so we all can build and stand on the shoulders of giants, I will take it. That is how the community grows and OEMs start to pull their heads out of their *****. Nvidia and AMD did the same ****; AMD just wised up and started working more with the community. Guess which devices are in most consoles and the most expensive Macs? Not Nvidia. Just saying. haha

 

[Snipesy]

It's "you're".

And yes; the tuning industry sucks and people play it close to the vest... why? Probably because of a sense of entitlement they have. They know something the other doesn't, and likely get off on it. OEMs make it difficult, yes, but when a fellow electronic nut who actually DOES know their stuff asks the community, why make it harder? Why create yet another hurdle? That isn't much of a "community" if anyone who doesn't meet the guru's standards is discouraged to learn about it. Honda heads do that stuff, too. I know because I owned a performance shop and dealt with them all of the time. The DSM community? Not at all. jbody cats? Nope. They are cool too. Focus tuners? Eh, it's hit and miss.

I mean, if there is a test or something to take to prove that you are worthy of the knowledge so we all can build and stand on the shoulders of giants, I will take it. That is how the community grows and OEMs start to pull their heads out of their *****. Nvidia and AMD did the same ****; AMD just wised up and started working more with the community. Guess which devices are in most consoles and the most expensive Macs? Not Nvidia. Just saying. haha

Or they just want to feed their kids... Send them off to college... Those things.

Guess it's time to dedicate my life to open sourcing everything. I found a nice cardboard box to live in on the corner.

Like really... I am the most giving person in the entire industry. The entire 2.0L is all open source. I've written countless pages on lots of tuning fundamentals. That is infintiely more than a lot of others have given.




I'm done here....

 

[XtremeRevolution]

I am also a network engineer (15+ years doing network security for ISP/MSP and server architecture), but I am also a seasoned developer, and know a dozen languages, and have no fear of learning more.

I will end up just buying a solution from one of the trusted guys, but I want to learn, experiment, etc. So, you saying I need to be prepared... I am. Not to make power (I mean, I do, and if I can, sweet), but if other programmers can do it, I don't see why I cannot at least learn how it works.

I find it disheartening that right off the bat, the last two responses were basically telling me not to waste my time. If the other guys had listened, you wouldn't have the tuning solutions that you have now. So, instead of trying to talk me out of something that I want to learn and discover, perhaps maybe point me to info (as some others have already done through PM)? I am not trying to be a d**k. Just saying; I want to learn, I used to tune, I am a programmer, very good with electronics (been working with them my whole life, and I am 33, programming at 9, and pen testing at 12), As far as the math behind it all; I also was in honours math classes and wanted to go attend university work my way towards becoming a particle physicist (WAY too much money for the likes of me).

So, be nice. haha. I really just want to learn. I already plan on buying a few extra ECMs, found some emulators, and am no stranger to hex editors.


Thanks,
RD

If all you do is want to learn, then go ahead. Who's to stop you? I've done things for the sake of learning before as well. I just gave you a fair warning that this isn't simple ECU, and what makes it worse is, there are some tables that still aren't mapped. We ran into this issue when tuning my Cruze and hitting a hard rev limiter below redline on the GTX turbo. We figured it out, but had to request a new table mapping from EFILive to complete the tune. I now rev to 8000 RPM smoothly.

I trust my point was well taken. I'm not here to sugar coat things, but to make you well aware that this is a far more complex ECU than you're used to.

HPTuners is your best bet for tuning this platform on your own.

 

[XtremeRevolution]

Or they just want to feed their kids... Send them off to college... Those things.

Guess it's time to dedicate my life to open sourcing everything. I found a nice cardboard box to live in on the corner.

Like really... I am the most giving person in the entire industry. The entire 2.0L is all open source. I've written countless pages on lots of tuning fundamentals. That is infintiely more than a lot of others have given.




I'm done here....

I for one appreciate your efforts. I wouldn't mind reading those pages on tuning fundamentals though. There's probably something there I haven't learned. Mind sending that over?