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In the market for a new car

4741 Views 37 Replies 17 Participants Last post by  iKermit, 
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Hi everyone,

I have been a forum lurker for a while now, reading up on these cars and associated problems/owner testaments.

These days, I commute over 80 miles a day and have owned a 1996 Camry LE since the showroom floor. Well, with 382,000 miles on her, she's burnt a valve and it's time to let her go. It's been a fantastic car - probably the best car I have ever owned.

I'm in the market for a fuel-efficient commuter car. I have been looking for about 2 weeks now and limping around in a 3-cylinder Camry for the time being. I have driven the Toyota Prius and it's absolutely the worst car I have ever driven - I cannot understand how people can bear to drive such cars.

I have eliminated the Ford Fusion Hybrid, Hyundai Elantra, Honda Civic, and Toyota Corolla - and narrowed my options down to the Chevy Cruze Eco (or Eco Diesel - still stuck between the two) and the Toyota Camry Hybrid XLE for their high MPG figures. I would like to check out the 2014 Accord Hybrid, but it looks like the timing won't work out for me, as I need a new car SOON and the dealers don't seem to have any in stock.

I would say I do about a 70% highway/30% city driving split. I commute from outside Chicago into the city, mostly highway on the way in, then gridlock around the city. As I tend to keep a car forever, I do not mind paying extra for whichever will get the best MPG, as I'm sure to make up the cost, but would like a car that comes in under $28,000 if possible. If there was more gridlock, I would rule out a manual transmission, but I would not mind it on this commute (my Camry was my first "grown-up" car with an automatic).

My 1996 Camry averages about 26 MPG on my day-to-day commute, and I am hoping to average somewhere in the 30s-40s to help even out the cost of a new car. I would like something that looks nice on the inside AND outside and that is somewhat pleasant to drive. Interior space or race-car performance is not really a big concern for me - my wife has a crossover that we use to cart the kids around, and I have a '66 Mustang in the garage. I would like something with adequate power to merge onto the highway and keep up with traffic.

I've driven the TCH on about a 60% city/40% highway route this weekend, and returned about 38 MPG. I also have a friend off work today that let me borrow his Cruze Eco for the commute today to test it out - he was the one that actually got me interested in the car. I have looked at the Diesel, and am very impressed with the interior on the Diesel, but have not had the chance to drive one.

For those of you that own either an Eco or a Diesel, how do you like your car and what kind of MPG do you get in a city/hwy split? How have your cars been reliability-wise?

I will come back with my impressions of the Eco after my drive home, as I spent much of the morning coming in toying and playing around with my friend's car to get to know it a little better. I have a dealer that is letting me borrow a Diesel for the day tomorrow, and I hope to make a decision on which car I will go with by tomorrow or Wednesday, as the Camry is hurting bad and running very rough at the moment.

Thanks!
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Sunline Fan said:
It's important to remember that you won't get the best fuel economy from a brand new car still in break-in mode and in a car that you're new to driving. As you and the car break in, mileage will improve. My first tank is still the worst to date and was 4 mpg less than my usual tank from that time of year.
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+1

Also, with how horribly cold it has been, mileage has been awful. My wife was questioning my decision to get a diesel yesterday as she got "only 39mpg" driving back and forth to work yesterday. I informed her that given that it was close to 10 below Fahrenheit here yesterday and there's winter fuel in the tank plus she was driving on less than stellar roads plus the engine is still new and unbroken-in, 39 mpg was not that bad and was still 5 mpg better than her average with the gas 2LT we had driving in summer conditions.

On my 175 mile trip home with the car from the dealer (when the temps were far warmer), I was getting high 40's and even low 50's, and that was even with varied speeds to break in the engine.
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R
This is why I prefer a auto behind a turbo.......drops a gear or two (or three) to pass and stays on boost.
The 40 to 70 pull is remarkable for this itty bitty engine.

Don't confuse my perception of performance to that of my Camaro 6m......but at 60 in 6th it is a dog too if a pass is needed.....gotta drop a couple of gears on that one as well.

Rob
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Robby said:
This is why I prefer a auto behind a turbo.......drops a gear or two (or three) to pass and stays on boost.
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Robby said:
The 40 to 70 pull is remarkable for this itty bitty engine.

Don't confuse my perception of performance to that of my Camaro 6m......but at 60 in 6th it is a dog too if a pass is needed.....gotta drop a couple of gears on that one as well.

Rob
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That's the thing...I wasn't expecting full passing power...I just wanted to gradually speed up 10 MPH, but I wanted a LITTLE more than it was giving. I gave it the beans in a 3rd gear drop and it moved as expected, but once you get past 3rd, there's just nothing left in the powerband in those top 3 gears. My friend agrees, said he's considering a tune for it after winter. That said, I guess this car's forte is flat, level highway cruising...and for that, it does turn in some impressive numbers with the tall gearing.

That said, I am very pleasantly surprised by the diesel. It started up in the cold this morning with no problem at all. Idle is a little loud, but it's very quiet on the inside...and boy is it fun to stomp on the gas. Unlike the 1.4 or even the 200 HP Camry Hybrid (kinda spools up like a turbo with that CVT), this thing just picks up and scoots through traffic.

I'm really liking this car, but I'll run the figures tonight on the costs for both once I get an idea of the MPG it's capable of.
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R
Well, a diesels forte is torque with a capitol T......no way a gasser will ever produce low rpm torque like that.

One of my sons Peterbilt's Caterpillar I6 makes 420 hp but 2400 ft.lb. torque!.......when bobbing (no trailer) it rips about the same as good sized V-8 performance car......but no downshift required.
Can't exceed 2400 rpm though, heh heh.

Rob
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jblackburn
Robby said:
Well, a diesels forte is torque with a capitol T......no way a gasser will ever produce low rpm torque like that.

One of my sons Peterbilt's Caterpillar I6 makes 420 hp but 2400 ft.lb. torque!.......when bobbing (no trailer) it rips about the same as good sized V-8 performance car......but no downshift required.
Can't exceed 2400 rpm though, heh heh.

Rob
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One of the things I love about the 1.4 is that it drives like a small diesel (VW TDI) or small V6 (2.5 L or so) at times. All the power is there below 4500 RPM, with much of it coming on strong at 2000-2500 RPM (lower for the autos). Above that magic 2000 RPM mark, this thing can get up almost any hill thrown at it without changing down a gear, and on flat ground can usually quickly speed up 5-10 mph without a problem. Hit the gas hard below that magic threshold, you're just waiting on the turbo to spool forever though...however, best fuel efficiency is achieved without the turbocharger spooled up.

The engine really feels good with a gearbox that helps put that power to the ground (I was unimpressed by the automatic in stock form), while the Eco MT drives much, much better with a tune on it to help pull the engine more out of those "dead zones".

Put up against a car of similar weight making 178 hp, my Cruzes torque/gearing will hold it dead even til 60 mph (8 seconds). I was fully expecting to lose that one. That said, highway passing power is useless above 60-70...the 1.4 excels at low-end torque and not top end power.

The 2.0TD then feels like the 1.4 was given a steroid injection and kicked in the sides a little bit. It's not "fast", but all that torque instantly available is both deceptive and a lot of fun.


Sent from AutoGuide.com App
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Aussie
The diesel is no racing car, but when overtaking an 18 wheeler out in the country with 4 adults and holiday luggage the time spent on the wrong side of the road was really short and nobody felt scared. My previous car was a 3.8 liter V6 5 speed manual and the diesel has 37ft/lbs more torque at nearly half the RPM and even using 3rd gear, in the Commodore, with the same load on board the Cruze picks up speed faster, so I wouldn't call it slow for normal driving. Both cars were nearly the same weight so it is a fair comparison. Commodore 1500kg, Cruze 1540kg.
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O
Results are in. You guys will be happy to know that I'm going with the Cruze Diesel.

Here's why:
-I would like leather. The leather package on the Camry XLE adds an additional $4300 and a bunch of useless stuff that I DO NOT want. I have gotten by just fine without cross-traffic monitoring, a backup camera, a moonroof, yada yada my entire life, and I do not like that whole package being forced on me when all I want is the leather seats. This is a stupid packaging model.

The Camry cloth seats, aside from the SE model, which only comes in a gas engine, are ugly in my opinion. That leather package would bring the $28000 XLE Hybrid to about $33000 MSRP, and the dealer is unwilling to negotiate below $29.5 altogether. For that price, I am into the much NICER V6 Avalon territory...a very nice car (the Avalon Hybrid is roughly $36K).

-I can buy the exact model Cruze Diesel I want with black leather seats, Black Granite metallic paint, MyLink radio, power seat, and no other options for $24000 out the door. Taxes, tags, fees, everything. I believe this is a good deal on this vehicle, which I believe usually goes closer to $25-26K MSRP.

-Mileage today - 34 MPG from the whole day (I took it out at lunch and ran around the city a little bit just to see how it would do - that was about 28 MPG block-to-block with the cold start in there). It is COLDDD today - I'm not sure if we got about the low 20's all day.

On the trip home - with traffic - I got 37 MPG combined, while seeing a steady 51 MPG on the highway stretch of my trip. That is INCREDIBLE. The combined number matches the Camry.

Accounting for the 20% premium of diesel fuel over regular fuel, that would be adjusted to about 30 MPG combined; 41 highway. I expect those numbers to get even better with warmer weather, and at that rate, I would never pay for the difference of the Hybrid Camry (even the base model would take many, many years to make up the difference). The Diesel Exhaust fluid is so cheap that I won't even bother factoring in the cost of that.

-As I said earlier, this car is FUN to drive. It's extremely quiet cruising down the highway, and from inside the car, you don't hear any diesel clatter at all. The handling is fantastic for a small car...although the curb weight is about the same as the Camry Hybrid, it goes into turns without body roll and corners very flat. At the same time, the suspension absorbs and shrugs off all but the biggest bumps and potholes without drama.

-It has an Aisin transmission. I would not buy a GM automatic, (my wife's Buick LeSabre blew the stupid 4T60 twice in its life, requiring a $1500 rebuild once, and a weekend wasted by me swapping it out the second time), but this is one of the big selling features for me. Plus, I prefer an actual automatic to a CVT, even if the CVT wasn't too bad.

-I have put a fair amount of research into the engine used in this car. The reliability of this 2.0TD engine seems pretty good overseas, and I have heard of less problems with this engine from what I can make out on forums across the lake than the 1.4T seems to have (failing water pumps, coolant smells, transmission grinds, turbochargers, valve covers all replaced early on in their lives).

Add to that the early VW TDI engines (before fuel pump problems) and Ford 7.3 Powerstroke engines have a knack for living well past 400,000 miles, and you've got the long life of a diesel engine way up there on the charts.

Hopefully the Cruze's body will last that long up here without turning to rust. I will have underbody rust protection slop applied to the car before I even pick it up.

There is a timing belt on the Diesel, but I am used to replacing those myself, and will be able to do so at a reasonable expense when the time comes. In addition, I will do all of my own maintenance once the free 2-year maintenance schedule expires.

I am very excited to pick up my new car (probably Friday), and I would like to thank all of you for your input.
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Merc6
Well there you go! Just make sure you try and schedule service well in advance of what you need for a normal Cruze. People find out the Diesel is such a small volume car that none of the Diesel Specific Cruze consumable parts are stocked if you called in today and schedule a oil change for Thursday.
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That said, highway passing power is useless above 60-70...the 1.4 excels at low-end torque and not top end power.
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This is where the tune really helps. I have had to scoot out of the way of a fast approaching Audi and went from 75 to 100+ reasonably quickly.
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B
Congrats! Good choice on the Diesel.
I would not buy a GM automatic, (my wife's Buick LeSabre blew the stupid 4T60 twice in its life, requiring a $1500 rebuild once,
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Yep - wife's Olds Intrigue auto lost top gear around 140k miles - required a rebuild.
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Merc6
blk88verde said:
Congrats! Good choice on the Diesel. Yep - wife's Olds Intrigue auto lost top gear around 140k miles - required a rebuild.
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Think I was the only lucky one with the GM auto flawlessly driving of my friends, my issues were engine, electrical and body parts related. If it didn't have a pattern of destruction I would have held on to it longer and avoided car notes all over again.


Sent from AutoGuide.com App
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Chevy Customer Care
Welcome to the forum oldreliable! Let me know if there are any questions I can answer to assist you in making a decision. I am pretty sure you can find answers to all of your questions among all of the knowledgeable members here on Cruze Talk! PM me if you have any questions.

Jackie
Chevrolet Customer Care
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O
It's official! Picked up my new Cruze this morning!:th_alc:
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P
Congrats! I knew you'd love it! Welcome to the Cruze CTD community! Let us know how things progress with your new car!

Robby said:
Well, a diesels forte is torque with a capitol T......no way a gasser will ever produce low rpm torque like that.
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Both of the GM 2.0L turbo gas engines, LHU and LTG (Verano Turbo and ATS/CTS/Malibu/Regal, respectively) crank out the same or slightly higher torque than the Cruze diesel engine in the same RPM range and with the same displacement. However, they burn nearly twice as much fuel doing so.
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UpstateNYBill
Congrats! Now we need pics!
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Glad to hear we have been able to bring you into the group then! I am sure you will love the diesel, I only got the 1LT because they couldnt ship me a diesel, but it was a beautiful thing. We demand pictures!!


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
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XtremeRevolution
Congrats on the new car! That will definitely meet your needs. Welcome to CruzeTalk btw. Looking forward to hearing about your Cruze adventures.
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iKermit
Congrats and welcome!!

-I'm mobile-
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