Hey just checking up on how soon you may have pictures of your sway bar install. I'm purchasing one in the near future. I also have a few questions about how you managed to do it without removal of the suspension.
Installed Whiteline BHR93 Rear Sway Bar/review
I picked up a Whiteline BHR93 Rear sway bar, which is for 3/2011 and newer Cruzes and installed it on my 2012 2LT this weekend. I hadn't seen any threads about this sway bar yet, only the version for older Cruzes that mounts in the traditional way with links and bushings and is adjustable.
The BHR93 is not adjustable and mounts to the bottom of the axle where the spring locator is. The spring locator is removed and replaced with a machined aluminum locator that is threaded for the bolts to bolt the bar across the rear end. The directions specified to unbolt the bottom of the rear shock to drop the suspension, remove the springs, replace the locators, then reinstall everything.
I was able to do it simply by lifting the rear end, punching out the old locators, pulling the new ones in through the rubber pad with the bolts, then mounting up the bar. It was a piece of cake and took around 45 minutes only because we were taking our time. No suspension removal required.
The bar itself was painted silver and looked like it was good quality. The flat parts on the ends that were mounted had some rough machining marks, but I doubt it will mean anything to the performance of the bar. It's a very trick piece that runs right along the torsion beam to increase the rear suspension rigidity.
Unfortunately it out-stabilizes the front by a small amount, and now I feel like I need to install the BHF93 27mm front sway bar to fix it. It's not urgent, however, as I have not had any traction issues on hard corners despite the rain. I just want it to feel a bit more balanced and planted in the front. It's just too bad the front sway bar requires dropping the subframe to remove and replace.
Performance of the rear is definitely awesome now. It's very firm and planted and all the body roll/chassis twisting that bothered me is now gone. I haven't installed the rear tower brace or anything else yet, and I'm not sure I need to.
Pics to come later.
The BHR93 is not adjustable and mounts to the bottom of the axle where the spring locator is. The spring locator is removed and replaced with a machined aluminum locator that is threaded for the bolts to bolt the bar across the rear end. The directions specified to unbolt the bottom of the rear shock to drop the suspension, remove the springs, replace the locators, then reinstall everything.
I was able to do it simply by lifting the rear end, punching out the old locators, pulling the new ones in through the rubber pad with the bolts, then mounting up the bar. It was a piece of cake and took around 45 minutes only because we were taking our time. No suspension removal required.
The bar itself was painted silver and looked like it was good quality. The flat parts on the ends that were mounted had some rough machining marks, but I doubt it will mean anything to the performance of the bar. It's a very trick piece that runs right along the torsion beam to increase the rear suspension rigidity.
Unfortunately it out-stabilizes the front by a small amount, and now I feel like I need to install the BHF93 27mm front sway bar to fix it. It's not urgent, however, as I have not had any traction issues on hard corners despite the rain. I just want it to feel a bit more balanced and planted in the front. It's just too bad the front sway bar requires dropping the subframe to remove and replace.
Performance of the rear is definitely awesome now. It's very firm and planted and all the body roll/chassis twisting that bothered me is now gone. I haven't installed the rear tower brace or anything else yet, and I'm not sure I need to.
Pics to come later.
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Hey just checking up on how soon you may have pictures of your sway bar install. I'm purchasing one in the near future. I also have a few questions about how you managed to do it without removal of the suspension.
Unfortunately I did not take pictures during the install. I planned to take pictures of it installed, but don't have access to the garage I used to use anymore so I've only got some phone pics from on the ground. There didn't seem to be much interest so I never updated the thread.
I can definitely answer any questions, though.
I wanted to avoid removing the lower shock bolts and dropping the suspension, so we started by trying spring compressors to take out the springs. They weren't able to compress them enough even with the suspension unloaded to remove them.
The next step we tried was punching out the locator with the spring still in place and the suspension still unloaded. We used an impact socket (so it had thick walls) that was the perfect size to fit into the locator hole. It punched out fine, but we had to relocate the spring when we put in the new locator as it had moved slightly.
The other side, we lowered the tire onto the ramp and completely loaded it. Punching out the locator was easy and the spring was under tension and did not move. Inserting the new locator was easier.
Once the new locators were in, we used the bolts in the kit to pull them in by hand by threading them in and pulling while rotating. We wanted to make sure the locators were pulled entirely into the hole and not at an angle. Once we were sure they were inserted into the hole correctly, we pulled them in by tightening the bolts over washers larger than the hole until they did not move.
Then we took out the bolts and swapped the washers for the sway bar. Hand tightened as tight as possible with a 12" breaker bar, and I was off.
The next step we tried was punching out the locator with the spring still in place and the suspension still unloaded. We used an impact socket (so it had thick walls) that was the perfect size to fit into the locator hole. It punched out fine, but we had to relocate the spring when we put in the new locator as it had moved slightly.
The other side, we lowered the tire onto the ramp and completely loaded it. Punching out the locator was easy and the spring was under tension and did not move. Inserting the new locator was easier.
Once the new locators were in, we used the bolts in the kit to pull them in by hand by threading them in and pulling while rotating. We wanted to make sure the locators were pulled entirely into the hole and not at an angle. Once we were sure they were inserted into the hole correctly, we pulled them in by tightening the bolts over washers larger than the hole until they did not move.
Then we took out the bolts and swapped the washers for the sway bar. Hand tightened as tight as possible with a 12" breaker bar, and I was off.
You know, this has got me thinking... But with my heavier front end, would I still need a front bar? If you are getting mild oversteer on a gas model, I bet you just a rear bar would really balance a Diesel out.
Something for me to ponder...
Something for me to ponder...
I would like to see some close up pictures of the install. Thanks
IG you haven't put lowering systems on your car like prokit or coilovers, I wouldn't do the front yet. Doing the front, on top of being a pain, can also create snap oversteer in hard corners and that's when the results get expensive.
Well, the oversteer is already a little snappy after installing the rear bar. I'm not sure why installing lowering springs would lessen that with the front bar. I've got the 2LT with the sport suspension and the spring rate is already pretty stiff relative to the base suspension and other similar cars.IG you haven't put lowering systems on your car like prokit or coilovers, I wouldn't do the front yet. Doing the front, on top of being a pain, can also create snap oversteer in hard corners and that's when the results get expensive.
It's my understanding the sway bar increases the cornering spring rate for the outside and also stabilizes the car. Increasing the spring rate with lowering springs or coilovers should further increase the understeer leading to snappy oversteer with an upgraded front sway bar, shouldn't it?
In the photos you can see the new spring locator from above, the sway bar running under the torsion beam, and the bolt for the sway bar. I'm a little sad the paint cracked and is peeling where it was bolted, but I don't think it's going to be a problem.
I'm not sure of the physics of it, but 1) I believe any lowering kit will still be stiffer than your sport suspension. 2) I have seen several guys install front bars after rear and end up having their cars whipped off the road because their understeer bit in and turned to oversteer in a split second.
That's a fair point. Are you talking about Cruzes specifically or other cars? The Whiteline front bar is a small increase in size from 25.4->27mm. It's not a large change at all, although a change in bar alloy/geometry might make it more effective as well.I'm not sure of the physics of it, but 1) I believe any lowering kit will still be stiffer than your sport suspension. 2) I have seen several guys install front bars after rear and end up having their cars whipped off the road because their understeer bit in and turned to oversteer in a split second.
The last one was a maxda3 but I've heard of various cars having similar results. You can handle it but gotta find the limit to know.
Definitely. I'd be wary of letting the girlfriend drive it. She already expressed much discontent at the modified handling with the rear bar installed.The last one was a maxda3 but I've heard of various cars having similar results. You can handle it but gotta find the limit to know.
You're not going to see this on regular driving, but spirited twisties were enough for the dude I knew with the Mazda.
And to correct a statement earlier, the effects of a sway bar are not to increase spring rate as much as equalize the forces between sides in turns and will in some situations alter loading that can make it seem like chassis squat on launches are slightly reduced.
In effect what your feeling with the front being looser is actually springs that are softer than they should be for the added roll stiffening that the sway bar provides. That's why a slightly stiffer kit like the prokit will make tons of difference in what your feeling.
On that note I've been battling with my car trying to decide where to start with suspension. Its firmly planted but has soooo much body roll and looses footing in evasive maneuvers. Know I need tires, but want to wait a while. Know a sway bar will help, but want to run coil over so I don't want to grab the bar and decide I don't like it with the coils. Then I realize I'm broke! Hahaha.
And to correct a statement earlier, the effects of a sway bar are not to increase spring rate as much as equalize the forces between sides in turns and will in some situations alter loading that can make it seem like chassis squat on launches are slightly reduced.
In effect what your feeling with the front being looser is actually springs that are softer than they should be for the added roll stiffening that the sway bar provides. That's why a slightly stiffer kit like the prokit will make tons of difference in what your feeling.
On that note I've been battling with my car trying to decide where to start with suspension. Its firmly planted but has soooo much body roll and looses footing in evasive maneuvers. Know I need tires, but want to wait a while. Know a sway bar will help, but want to run coil over so I don't want to grab the bar and decide I don't like it with the coils. Then I realize I'm broke! Hahaha.
upgrade your struts/shocks. Get a set of Bilsteins, and forget about bandaid solutions like sway bars etc. The worst snake oil are strut tower bars and the ilk. $200 down the drain.
BTW, you don't need coilovers. Just get the struts/shocks. Stock springs are fine.
I think sway bars are a little more important than you give them credit for. If it weren't for the large size of the stock front bar, the car would handle like crap.upgrade your struts/shocks. Get a set of Bilsteins, and forget about bandaid solutions like sway bars etc. The worst snake oil are strut tower bars and the ilk. $200 down the drain.
I can't speak with authority for the improvement that replacing the shocks/struts or upgrading the springs does to improve the handling, but I can say the rear sway bar fixed my largest complaint about the handling.
I was looking at simply replacing the shocks with Bilsteins when the time comes to replace the OEM ones, but the B8's (for the sport suspension) run around $700 for a set. I could get the entire B14 kit (coilovers) for $770, so why not spend the extra $70 to get some tune-ability in the suspension as well?BTW, you don't need coilovers. Just get the struts/shocks. Stock springs are fine.
So the front strut tower bars make the cruze worse? I was gonna order the whitelines front and rear tower bars... I have 1LT btw
Is hard to believe that tower bars are snake oil when so many people comment on how much they help stiffen the chassis and so many race teams trying to save weight still use them.
If you have the z-link rear suspension, the sway bar is less necessary, but will still give you a flatter cornering ability.
On the topic of just using performance struts and shocks, that's up to you in what you desire in the curves.
If you have the z-link rear suspension, the sway bar is less necessary, but will still give you a flatter cornering ability.
On the topic of just using performance struts and shocks, that's up to you in what you desire in the curves.
The Cruze shell is very rigid. Strut tower bars have little effect. Those claiming otherwise are in all likelihood imagining a difference. Something like a butt dyno, and we all know how accurate it is.
The trouble with coilovers is that they ride very harsh since there are no isolating bushings etc. Great for the track and very smooth roads, but tiresome in real life on the street.
You are correct about rear sway bars in that I forgot to take into consideration the base twist beam axle vs the Z-Link. (I have the RS package with Z-Link and find it quite neutral in handling.) That said, I still firmly believe that upgrading the struts/shocks will provide a better balanced solution over a rear sway bar. The problem with an aggressive rear sway bar is that there is a greater risk of being caught out with the car swapping ends unexpectedly. It could happen as easily as you cornering over a crest in the rain at 50 mph and you back off when the corner tightens up expectantly. Next thing you know you're travelling backwards.
I suggest you are better off upgrading the front sway bar end links, and perhaps the steering rack bushings. The endlinks are spaghetti thin and probably distort under extreme cornering.
The trouble with coilovers is that they ride very harsh since there are no isolating bushings etc. Great for the track and very smooth roads, but tiresome in real life on the street.
You are correct about rear sway bars in that I forgot to take into consideration the base twist beam axle vs the Z-Link. (I have the RS package with Z-Link and find it quite neutral in handling.) That said, I still firmly believe that upgrading the struts/shocks will provide a better balanced solution over a rear sway bar. The problem with an aggressive rear sway bar is that there is a greater risk of being caught out with the car swapping ends unexpectedly. It could happen as easily as you cornering over a crest in the rain at 50 mph and you back off when the corner tightens up expectantly. Next thing you know you're travelling backwards.
I suggest you are better off upgrading the front sway bar end links, and perhaps the steering rack bushings. The endlinks are spaghetti thin and probably distort under extreme cornering.
BTW, back in the early seventies, I had a girl friend who's father owned a Citroen DS21. (Yes I'm that old.) Those cars were famous for a number of reasons, but one of the primary reasons was that they had a hydraulic suspension. (Her father's other car was a Jensen CV8 which I drove on occasion. Look that up on Wiki.)
That Citroen handled phenomenally. But that I mean there were very few cars that could keep up with it on the twisties. Once you got used to cornering on your doorhandles, and realized that the car was not going to roll over, it was amazing. The French have a different twist on handling. It is all about suspension travel, and wheels remaining in contact with the road surface.
I used to rally thirty years ago, and at the time, it was considered smart to stab the brakes when travelling over a crest. That was because it is tough to turn in mid air! Back then we drove rallies blind, so you had no idea which direction the road went after a crest, hence "it was tough to turn in mid air". There was no such thing as pace notes or prior knowledge of the road. And my allegiance to Bilstein is because I ran Bilsteins on my first car which was a Datsun 240Z and second which was a 280Z. The performed flawlessly. Are current Bilsteins as good? I hope so, since I will be installing a set on my 2014 Cruze next summer.
That Citroen handled phenomenally. But that I mean there were very few cars that could keep up with it on the twisties. Once you got used to cornering on your doorhandles, and realized that the car was not going to roll over, it was amazing. The French have a different twist on handling. It is all about suspension travel, and wheels remaining in contact with the road surface.
I used to rally thirty years ago, and at the time, it was considered smart to stab the brakes when travelling over a crest. That was because it is tough to turn in mid air! Back then we drove rallies blind, so you had no idea which direction the road went after a crest, hence "it was tough to turn in mid air". There was no such thing as pace notes or prior knowledge of the road. And my allegiance to Bilstein is because I ran Bilsteins on my first car which was a Datsun 240Z and second which was a 280Z. The performed flawlessly. Are current Bilsteins as good? I hope so, since I will be installing a set on my 2014 Cruze next summer.
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