[e-iowa-o]

DEF quality poor no CEL. Recall?

It seems as if there are very inconsistent symptoms, all for the same issue. I think I am the only one that didn't get a CEL, but I'm pretty sure everybody else got the reduced speed message.

A couple of years ago I had this warning with no CEL ( I had already been thru the failed heater prob, couldn't get one so took it to the dealer where they could get one next day, they told me they swapped out the reservoir but they just unplugged and swapped out he drop in part, I learned long ago to sharpie the parts before they SAY they replace them). I wasn't aware of shelf life considerations on the DEF. I googled the way to decipher the Peak DEF fluid code so I was sure to get the newest I could then siphoned out the existing fluid and replaced with new. warning went away and didn't return for a long time.

Fast forward to one month ago I get the poor def warning and the subsequent countdown, no code. I always get newest fluid I can, usually at local farm store. I topped it off with about 2 gallons of Peak DEF with Date code representing mid November, so really fresh. Warning went away immediately. 2 weeks later warning returned. I siphoned all of it out and replaced with the fresh and warning goes away immediately.

Now, 2 weeks later, warning is back, no CEL. we are at 98K on the odometer. Could my problem have any thing to do with the recent sensor and regen letters we received? I don't recall ever seeing any notification about a regen running, never inquired at dealer about one. I have had bad luck with dealer for problem diagnosis and paying for unnecessary parts before. I really hate to go there for anything. If I need to go I will find a different one.

 

[e-iowa-o]

Last time the DEF heater failed I had a code that identified it. Is there a chance the dealer would replace it with no code, just symptoms?

 

[e-iowa-o]

no codes. limited to 65MPH. Took it in with the recall letter for NOX 1 sensor/ECM update/regen. figured that may get rid of the "Diesel exhaust fluid poor quality" warning and limp mode. no luck. still had the same warning. sat in the dealership for 7 hours, no progress, no codes. Left it there over the weekend.

This am they called me and said they determined that the problem was with NOX 2 sensor. Still no codes. They could change that for > $900. That amounts $500 for the sensor and 3 hrs labor. They recommended flushing the trans and cleaning the battery terminals also but that would run me about $1300 all together.

I am infuriated. took a number and told em I would call back. been steamed all day. I can't see how they can quote 3 hrs labor for a NOX sensor that is sticking right out at you. unless they are charging for time spent guessing at why the recall work didn't get it out of limp mode. ARGH! Probably another part I am unable to readily buy outside of the dealer like that DEF tank heater.

 

[e-iowa-o]

Online the nox sensor is about 230, I would consider doing it myself. Sounds like they are not being fair on price in my view, I think GM has a screwed up emission system that is too darn expensive to fix out of warranty.

I hope I can get the car out of there without them charging me for diagnosing the problem. I need to drive it about 45 miles home at 55MPH I don't even know how far the car will let me go at that speed. Plus, if I obtain the sensor online and I'm still in limp mode???

Is there truth to there being a possibility of getting rid of the DEF system and re programming the ECM to run without it?

Outside of the DEF issues and always paying to be part of the dealership's learning curve I'm very happy with the car.

 

[e-iowa-o]

Thanks for the responses guys. I like to fix and maintain my one vehicles. I am pretty frustrated that if I am resigned to take it in to the dealership they just guess and throw parts at it, too.

They told me they drove the car with a laptop hooked up and another tech watching readings and figured the Nox 2 was the problem. I asked why there was no code. They don't know.

While I was there waiting the other day I submitted the request for reimbursement on the last DEF heater. The record of their diagnosis of that one noted that the ohms for the heating element were off. I think I need to go there and move the crap out of the trunk and ask them to check that again. Especially if a bad DEF heater can put it in limp mode and the NOX 2 sensor can't.

 

[e-iowa-o]

OK.. just an update. Limped it to the dealership. 12 miles from the 55 MPH limit. They swapped out the nox #1 sensor, reflash, and did the regen on the recall. Still wouldn't come out of limp mode, wouldn't pass DEF quality test. And, still no codes.

Two of the guys took it for a spin with the laptop and saw that nox #2 was not working. Service quoted me $1300 to replace that and do the suggested radiator and trans fluid flush, only about $900 just to do the nox sensor only (that was 3 hrs labor). I waited a couple of days so I could call and speak to them without yelling.

I was just going to go get it and order the sensor online. But, they backed off of their list price on the part to $350 and I OK'd 2 hrs labor. So $600 plus tax and we're down the road.

The dealer is 45 mi away so that was a factor. If I paid $125 for 1 hr diagnosis and swapped it out at home and that fixed it and cleared the warning out I'd be good. But if they needed to do something for it to do the DEF quality test then I'd need to bring it back. I didn't know if the "DEF quality test" is just part of normal operation of the motor or if it was initiated by them. They implied I'd still need to bring it back after I changed it myself. I know this is not always the case and I'm sure they don't know if I'd need to bring it back either.

 

[e-iowa-o]

The DEF quality poor warning was gone for a few days. It's back on. Counting down...

 

[e-iowa-o]

The tech told me he checked the Def tank heater. I don't know. When It was replaced before they listed the resistance and that it was out of spec.

I just have no Idea how to proceed or chase down this problem with there being no codes and it still going into limp mode.

I'm sure the dealership doesn't know what to do either. I really am not happy about having to pay to be part of their learning curve.

 

[e-iowa-o]

Had check engine light come on, P20EE. cleared it. 39 miles until 65 MPH limit on DEF quailty poor warning. NOx #1 and #2 just changed. Shoot me.

 

[e-iowa-o]

DEF quality poor warning cleared!

According to his earlier post they did the recall..

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I had the Exhaust fluid quality poor warning and was 30 miles from 55 MPH limit. I had cleared out the P20EE code but it was run for 1 day with the warning still up. I saw where you had this countdown come on and run yours at WOT for a while and that it had gone away.

I live in a rural area. I took ours out on the road and, in manual, put it in 2nd gear and ran it at 4,800 RPMs for 10 miles (5 miles out and back). At about ¼ mile the check engine light came back on. The warning remained on the whole time and kept counting down toward 55 MPH limit. Running at those RPMs for that long felt like a strange thing to do and I was worried about damaging something. But when I turned down my road it cleared. Yay!

Torque showed the code as P144E and I cleared it out. I don’t know what that one is but I’m just glad to be out of the countdown mode.

 

[e-iowa-o]

Thanks a bunch! If I had somehow picked up on that earlier I could have potentially avoided a lot of wasted time and costs.

There is usually quite a bit of guessing at the dealership. This might end up being their go to maneuver for our DEF problems. Just blow the cobwebs out (then charge 3 hours labor).