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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Sounds like Domenic is getting a lil sick..........


is that the DPF cel I see on the speedo??
No, I think that's the one for the DEF. Oddly enough, there was no actual CEL.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
It is the DEF warning light. Odd there is no CEL. Might mean you actually have bad DEF.
Hmm, that hadn't occurred to me. I just filled it up with a fresh container about a month ago.
 

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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Diesel, I think what that light means is that your Cruze is due for a delete and a tune. ;)
LOL, well, I'm not quite there yet! :)

Anyway, it will probably be a couple weeks before I can report back on this. You know, I did something that I don't usually do before this light came on. I started, moved around the driveway, shut off. I did that a couple times, and I've never done that before. usually I always warm it up. Maybe I created an issue with the sensors by doing that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
My guess, based on what you describe (DEF Poor, but no CEL) is that you might be looking at a clogged or malfunctioning DEF injector. Since bad DEF is unlikely, and a NOX sensor problem should set a CEL, that leaves the injector, unless a CEL does set before you accomplish the repair. With the number of miles you have put on, I can imagine that, if that injector hasn't reached the end of its useful life, it at least has built up some crystallization or corrosion at this point that might be enough to impair its performance.
That makes a lot of sense. Also, from where I had a bad oil drain plug gasket, oil leaked directly on it for several months too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
I had this happen twice to me, with the 'poor quality DEF'. I added some newer DEF. (even though the tank was over 1/2 full) drove about 50km and the warning went away.
interesting. Thanks for the feedback.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
I Just received a recall notice about Nox1 sensor (replace req'd) and or soot buildup on Ox sensor (nothing about replacing it?), think it might be related to the 'Bad Def' readings people are getting.
I am hoping this addresses the issue with mine. It goes into the shop next week.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Finally got the diagnosis - DEF reductant tank reservoir heater needs to be replaced. I thought that might be it, but odd no CEL.
 
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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Did they give you an estimate of cost of replacement of the def Heater Reservior? More curious than anything.
Yes, it was $330 parts and labor. There may have been a charge for diagnosis too, not sure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
wait,

so another time that 'bad def' isnt the problem.

sigh.
Yep. Hopefully this is addressed in the 2nd gen car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
And so it begins, caught a P249D on the way home. Cleared it in the driveway, came right back on restart.
P249D -> Closed loop reductant injection control. control limit reached low flow detect.
We just stepped into winter a few days of freezing weather. I'm thinking heater also.
I filled the DEF last-night and cleared the code 1/2 way to work this am, stayed cleared, will monitor.
This would go hand-in-hand with the 'poor DEF' warning.
Keep us posted - this seems to be a different flavor of the issue. It almost sounds like the injector is clogged in this case.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
i would expect same amount of problems, all new parts gotta real world tested

but i would hope they would be quicker to fix things this go around.
I think there's going to be much more of a spotlight on the new diesel. Time will tell how it does, though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Has to be costing them a ton of $$ on warranty claims on the CTD. @diesel, what did you finally do? The new Recall /Service alert may help you. I'd at least call and ask.
The dealer put it in to see if GM would approve all or part of it, but it came back that I was just too far out based on mileage. I agree with them. I am 71K miles past the warranty coverage limit.
 
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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
They had to drive mine 50 miles to clear the "Poor DEF" warning. Those were the instructions they received from TAC. So far so good after that. They delivered me a car with no warnings, as they should have.
@Louis, that regen should have been covered by the recall, I think?
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
A quick 400 mile trip around the block today and all is still well. :)
 
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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
I know I'm way late to the party on this one, but I had that same repair. I didn't get the DEF light, but I certainly got the CEL. Strange thing is, I never got a reduced speed message. I drove with the bad tank heater for almost 2 months before it was repaired; and this was when I was putting 25k miles on the car a year.
It seems as if there are very inconsistent symptoms, all for the same issue. I think I am the only one that didn't get a CEL, but I'm pretty sure everybody else got the reduced speed message.
 
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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
Last time the DEF heater failed I had a code that identified it. Is there a chance the dealer would replace it with no code, just symptoms?
That's what my dealer did. They were still able to diagnose the problem with no CEL. I've gone at least 2500 miles since then with no further issues, and I never changed the fluid either. Mine was not covered under warranty since I was out by 70K miles.
 
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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
I hope I can get the car out of there without them charging me for diagnosing the problem. I need to drive it about 45 miles home at 55MPH I don't even know how far the car will let me go at that speed. Plus, if I obtain the sensor online and I'm still in limp mode???

Is there truth to there being a possibility of getting rid of the DEF system and re programming the ECM to run without it?

Outside of the DEF issues and always paying to be part of the dealership's learning curve I'm very happy with the car.
The speed limit/poor DEF quality issue is extremely likely the DEF heater. They are apparently not doing a good job of diagnosing it. That repair is covered under a 10 year 120K mile extended warranty. I am 99% sure that's what the issue with your car is. My dealer was able to diagnose without a CEL present.

The NOx sensors do NOT contribute to a speed limit message, based on all the info I've gathered, and 4,000 miles on my car with an on-and-off P11DC (NOx #2) CEL.
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
Thanks for the responses guys. I like to fix and maintain my one vehicles. I am pretty frustrated that if I am resigned to take it in to the dealership they just guess and throw parts at it, too.

They told me they drove the car with a laptop hooked up and another tech watching readings and figured the Nox 2 was the problem. I asked why there was no code. They don't know.

While I was there waiting the other day I submitted the request for reimbursement on the last DEF heater. The record of their diagnosis of that one noted that the ohms for the heating element were off. I think I need to go there and move the crap out of the trunk and ask them to check that again. Especially if a bad DEF heater can put it in limp mode and the NOX 2 sensor can't.
Good luck with everything, it sounds extremely frustrating.
 

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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
OK.. just an update. Limped it to the dealership. 12 miles from the 55 MPH limit. They swapped out the nox #1 sensor, reflash, and did the regen on the recall. Still wouldn't come out of limp mode, wouldn't pass DEF quality test. And, still no codes.

Two of the guys took it for a spin with the laptop and saw that nox #2 was not working. Service quoted me $1300 to replace that and do the suggested radiator and trans fluid flush, only about $900 just to do the nox sensor only (that was 3 hrs labor). I waited a couple of days so I could call and speak to them without yelling.

I was just going to go get it and order the sensor online. But, they backed off of their list price on the part to $350 and I OK'd 2 hrs labor. So $600 plus tax and we're down the road.

The dealer is 45 mi away so that was a factor. If I paid $125 for 1 hr diagnosis and swapped it out at home and that fixed it and cleared the warning out I'd be good. But if they needed to do something for it to do the DEF quality test then I'd need to bring it back. I didn't know if the "DEF quality test" is just part of normal operation of the motor or if it was initiated by them. They implied I'd still need to bring it back after I changed it myself. I know this is not always the case and I'm sure they don't know if I'd need to bring it back either.
Hopefully that's it. Keep us posted on how it does moving forward.
 
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