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It's finally my turn

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finally turn
16K views 74 replies 16 participants last post by  diesel 
#1 ·
I am glad it happened close to home!

Car Vehicle Auto part Gauge Speedometer
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#4 ·
No, I think that's the one for the DEF. Oddly enough, there was no actual CEL.
 
#6 ·
Hmm, that hadn't occurred to me. I just filled it up with a fresh container about a month ago.
 
#7 ·
DEF has a limited shelf life and it's dependent on stowage temperature. I only had to buy one container so far and was not happy that there was no data for expiration nor manufacture date on the package. Given the potential expensive repairs possible, maybe the cheapest way to try and fix this is to extract the DEF and fill with fresh fluid? Hope it's not any worse than that. Do keep us posted on how you correct this problem.

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#9 ·
On the Cummins forums several had excessive use with DEF that had been sitting around in high temperatures. It can be an issue, that said, some faulty sensor would also not surprise me.. but the correlation to recent DEF add and this condition is certainly suspect as to a fluid problem.

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#11 ·
DEF goes bad more than you think. If the vehicle had a sensor, component, or heater reporting a fault you get a CEL along with the DEF warning light and a message on the DIC: SERVICE EXHAUST FLUID SYSTEM or SERVICE EMISSION SYSTEM. When my heater failed I got the SERVICE EXHAUST FLUID SYSTEM message. We have seen other cars on the forum have bad sensors resulting in the message, but there is usually a CEL along with it.
 
#19 ·
It monitors the ability of the DEF injection with SCR to remove NOx. If it's not performing as expected, you get poor DEF quality message. As DEF degrades over time, it breaks down and more is required to remove NOx, eventually it can get to a point where it is not sufficient, thus thee message and warning, and reduced power. Part of that is regulatory compliance with EPA emissions. To say it doesn't happen because you've not specifically seen it is annectotal. It may be rare, but clearly it can happen.

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#21 ·
LOL, well, I'm not quite there yet! :)

Anyway, it will probably be a couple weeks before I can report back on this. You know, I did something that I don't usually do before this light came on. I started, moved around the driveway, shut off. I did that a couple times, and I've never done that before. usually I always warm it up. Maybe I created an issue with the sensors by doing that.
 
#22 ·
My guess, based on what you describe (DEF Poor, but no CEL) is that you might be looking at a clogged or malfunctioning DEF injector. Since bad DEF is unlikely, and a NOX sensor problem should set a CEL, that leaves the injector, unless a CEL does set before you accomplish the repair. With the number of miles you have put on, I can imagine that, if that injector hasn't reached the end of its useful life, it at least has built up some crystallization or corrosion at this point that might be enough to impair its performance.
 
#23 ·
That makes a lot of sense. Also, from where I had a bad oil drain plug gasket, oil leaked directly on it for several months too.
 
#25 ·
interesting. Thanks for the feedback.
 
#27 ·
I am hoping this addresses the issue with mine. It goes into the shop next week.
 
#28 ·
Great the 'poor Quality Def' is back, hit on the way to work this a.m. Last-week I called the dealership about the recall -we need to order parts, called today still no parts. Why did they send me a notice that the parts were available? And this is the dealership that can't change the oil properly... great. next closest dealership is 1hr away.
 
#30 ·
Finally got the diagnosis - DEF reductant tank reservoir heater needs to be replaced. I thought that might be it, but odd no CEL.
 
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#31 ·
Did they give you an estimate of cost of replacement of the def Heater Reservior? More curious than anything.
 
#39 ·
Has to be costing them a ton of $$ on warranty claims on the CTD. @diesel, what did you finally do? The new Recall /Service alert may help you. I'd at least call and ask.
 
#40 ·
Has to be costing them a ton of $$ on warranty claims on the CTD. @diesel, what did you finally do? The new Recall /Service alert may help you. I'd at least call and ask.
The dealer put it in to see if GM would approve all or part of it, but it came back that I was just too far out based on mileage. I agree with them. I am 71K miles past the warranty coverage limit.
 
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#41 · (Edited)
Well, I had the CID in Thursday for the Nox1 sensor replacement and Regen
before going in I had the 'Poor DEF' warning and the 'P249D' -reductant injector control
I won't go into a rant about the 'Service cloud' the dealerships have placed between the customer (-me) and the mechanic (-guy I'm paying to fix the car)
-The sensor replaced, took 3 tries to get a regen to complete, it kept kicking the mechanic out ( said the cloud).
-Your car is ready sir, oh, the mechanic suggested driving the car to clear the 'Poor DEF' alarm.
-on the way home scan-guage RGN posting 0 for 10 seconds then alternating 1 for 10. hmmmm
-finally 2 RGN
-Still 'Poor DEF' warning..going to 80km -with warning it will go to 6km in short order
-on the way home stopped for alcohol (to go) to wash away 'Service Cloud' taste
-take dog for drive 20km -no change
-call 'Service Cloud' Still 'Poor DEF' need car for Monday
-take it back to dealership, leave it overnight
-pickup Friday no 'Poor DEF' warning
-'Service Cloud' upset it took 3 regens to clear alarm
-paid 'Service Cloud' $242 the cost of the regen on Friday...
Went home washed away 'Service Cloud' feeling...
 
#42 ·
They had to drive mine 50 miles to clear the "Poor DEF" warning. Those were the instructions they received from TAC. So far so good after that. They delivered me a car with no warnings, as they should have.
@Louis, that regen should have been covered by the recall, I think?
 
#44 ·
A quick 400 mile trip around the block today and all is still well. :)
 
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#48 ·
Got my first RGN today since the dealership cleaning, it started right at 22 STM and finished at 3. I went 1425km (before regular was 900-1100) since the dealership and only took about 12 min.@ 108km. everything copacetic :) I was on the highway, so I didn't notice any MAP drop.
 
#52 ·
That's what my dealer did. They were still able to diagnose the problem with no CEL. I've gone at least 2500 miles since then with no further issues, and I never changed the fluid either. Mine was not covered under warranty since I was out by 70K miles.
 
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