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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys, I am new here. But I have a 2017 Cruze Premier with the factory projectors. I want to make the headlights match the DRLs. So I just wanted to see what everyone has tried and what people recommend the most. So ultimately what I want is to match the DRL color, not too hard. But I also want to get a good beam pattern and distance as well. I have read a few other threads but most people haven't really listed the actual lights they have used, just the results. So everyone post the bulbs you are using and maybe some pictures of the cutoff, distance, etc.

Thanks and lets see what people have got!
 

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Since I'm from Canada, I went with these ones 10 days ago and do not regret my purchase. https://www.carlightingdistrict.com/collections/led-conversion-kit/products/helios-headlight-kit

Lifetime warranty and they match the leds perfectly and are very strong. I will post pics on the weekend like I said in the thread just below this one.

Edit;
Just be aware that they do not list 2017 and 2018 Cruze but these leds fit perfectly. You still need to buy an aftermarket dust cover. I just bought it last week but the link doesn't exist on Amazon anymore because they say it has sold out.:excl:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I appreciate the response, I look forward to the pictures. I found these on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/9005-LED-Hea...dlight+9005&refinements=p_72:1248861011&psc=1 The reviews seem to be mostly positive and they are 4 sided, so I thought maybe they would be better for projectors? Plus they are inexpensive to try out, I am considering ordering them just to see how good they are for $45. Maybe someone else might know if the 4 sided bulb would make much of a difference in the projectors. I am a bit of a newb, never had projectors before.
 

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the 4 sided bulb is an outdated idea that proved not to work well. the style bulb I used is proving to work quite well, and they're on sale right now. even at $70, though, it's a bargain for what you get.
 

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I got my LEDs through my dealer, they ordered a set of G7 LEDs from Direct Auto Imports, been running them for about a week/week and a half now and no issues so far. They're not insanely bright compared to other ones, but they're an improvement over the stock halogens and I haven't had to readjust my lights (yet) and the beams seem to sit at about the same level as the halogens. Bonus, they definitely made a heck of a difference driving in the heavy snow/rain that we got last week. I had to crank my lights and my fogs to see more than 15 feet ahead, didn't have to with these guys as the white color contrasted things enough that I could see what was ahead.

Here are the lights - DAI
 

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Aftermarket LEDs really aren't there yet in terms of reliability and performance, you'll gain foreground brightness and a nicer color, but you'll quickly notice that in snow and heavy rain you'll regret having LED lights as they cannot pierce through weather like halogens or lower color temp HIDs can. Wet roads absorb blue light, and LED bulbs are 6000k which is a blue/white hue. You're much better off buying the brightest and whitest halogen offering (Phillips crystal vision) or ponying up and doing a proper HID retrofit in the color realm of 4200-5500k.
 

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Most people that suggest LED bulbs think because they're the newest tech that means they're the best, and they assume since they seem a bit brighter that they're awesome, but 9.5/10 of those people have never actually done real lighting work or research aside from putting a cheap eBay LED bulb into their inner dome lights....Not trying to be rude or call anyone out, but hands on experience and research means more than "oh I've used this for a few weeks and it seems great"
 

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this is first hand experience. Also watch the plethora of YouTube videos out there done by professionals of HID vs LED and you’ll see. LED are brighter in the foreground than halogens, but what’s more important when traveling at 70mph 15 feet in front of the car or 150 feet? By all means, buy some cheap LED headlights and drive around on a black road in the rain and you’ll see for yourself that it looks like you only have fog lights on.
 

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this is first hand experience. Also watch the plethora of YouTube videos out there done by professionals of HID vs LED and you’ll see. LED are brighter in the foreground than halogens, but what’s more important when traveling at 70mph 15 feet in front of the car or 150 feet? By all means, buy some cheap LED headlights and drive around on a black road in the rain and you’ll see for yourself that it looks like you only have fog lights on.
Plethora of youtube videos by professionals? That's laughable. There are no such videos. I only really wanted to know how you came up with the idea that LEDs can't pierce through weather. Or even say that wet roads absorb blue light? I'd prefer to see a field study or paper written on the subject. Because I can certainly say that I have not had any first hand experiences to match what your saying. Its quite interesting how we as humans perceive light. Different perceptions by different drivers. A good read is a book called "Automotive Lighting and Human Vision".

I believe your making your assumptions on LED bulbs in general based on crappy designed, poor performing ones. And yes there are many. The market is flooded with bad bulbs. And many of the Cruze members on this forum have purchased these bad bulbs and think their good. But there ARE good bulbs that provide good illumination patterns. I've proven it.

Foreground light is not a bad thing. Actually Federal FMVSS 108 standards require there to be a minimum luminous intensity in this light region. There is no maximum value requirement. However it has been believed by many that too much foreground can be a bad thing on the eyes with respect to distance vision. And while I sort of stand on the 50/50 fence of this belief, studies have shown the contrary.

I would rather give demerits to these LED bulbs where the light intensity is LESS in the hotspot region or MORE light intensity in the glare region than for having more foreground light.
 

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Plethora of youtube videos by professionals? That's laughable. There are no such videos. I only really wanted to know how you came up with the idea that LEDs can't pierce through weather. Or even say that wet roads absorb blue light? I'd prefer to see a field study or paper written on the subject. Because I can certainly say that I have not had any first hand experiences to match what your saying. Its quite interesting how we as humans perceive light. Different perceptions by different drivers. A good read is a book called "Automotive Lighting and Human Vision".

I believe your making your assumptions on LED bulbs in general based on crappy designed, poor performing ones. And yes there are many. The market is flooded with bad bulbs. And many of the Cruze members on this forum have purchased these bad bulbs and think their good. But there ARE good bulbs that provide good illumination patterns. I've proven it.

Foreground light is not a bad thing. Actually Federal FMVSS 108 standards require there to be a minimum luminous intensity in this light region. There is no maximum value requirement. However it has been believed by many that too much foreground can be a bad thing on the eyes with respect to distance vision. And while I sort of stand on the 50/50 fence of this belief, studies have shown the contrary.

I would rather give demerits to these LED bulbs where the light intensity is LESS in the hotspot region or MORE light intensity in the glare region than for having more foreground light.
Quoted directly from TRS website under the LED section of the link I sent you previously

  • Disadvantages: expensive, heats up neighboring assemblies, difficult to fit, needs cooling, sub-par in inclement weather due to higher Kelvin ratings.”
there are several lighting companies that do comparison videos or have comparison ‘blogs’. And bluer light (higher kelvin temp) [including higher color temp HIDs] is for a fact worse in inclement weather, what color are the most useful fog lights? They’re 3000k, that intense yellow, why? They pierce through fog the best, being yellow (lower kelvin). Bluer lights reflect right back at you once they hit snow or fog.

Standard Halogens are around 4000-43000k best all around for weather/brightness.
HIDs can range from 3000-15000k, for best low beam use 4200-5500k is the sweet spot for color and brightness.
White LEDs are 5500-8000k the 5500k would be the rarest as I hardly ever see them, and naturally would be the best (of LEDs) to use for low beam application.

The only LEDs I have seen perform as good as HIDs are SOME oem led headlight setups. And they perform that well because of proper optics inside the headlight assembly and high quality LEDs, not because they threw in a sub $100 led bulb not designed for the housing.

none of this is information I’m pulling out of my butt, I’ve done HID retros, I’ve purchased and used expensive LEDs, I’m not uneducated, and if you wanted to verify anything I say, you could quickly by using google. Instead you insist everything I say is false and accuse me of thinking all LEDs are just as bad as the cheapest ones are.

leds are a great technology, amazing for fog lights, dome lights, turn signals, and brake lights. I have them all, all the highest end from diode dynamics, and where I knock people most is when they purchase a $60 LED light kit for their low beams from Amazon and tell me they perform MUCH better than my $150 HID kit from theretrofitsource. My LED reverse lights cost $90. My front turn signals cost $90, my LED fogs cost $120. Yes they are very bright, but in no way shape or form is a LED low beam kit that costs less than my turn signals going to outperform my HIDs in projectors.

I’ll close with this, in dry weather, an expensive, high quality, LED bulb can outperform a halogen in terms of brightness and nicer color, but unless you live in a world without rain, it’s bound to rain at some night and you’ll have a harder time seeing with them when that night comes. Led bulbs that do their best to mimic the halogen filament are the best style LED bulb, GTR lighting is a leader in that regard.
 

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Quoted directly from TRS website under the LED section of the link I sent you previously

  • Disadvantages: expensive, heats up neighboring assemblies, difficult to fit, needs cooling, sub-par in inclement weather due to higher Kelvin ratings.”
there are several lighting companies that do comparison videos or have comparison ‘blogs’. And bluer light (higher kelvin temp) [including higher color temp HIDs] is for a fact worse in inclement weather, what color are the most useful fog lights? They’re 3000k, that intense yellow, why? They pierce through fog the best, being yellow (lower kelvin). Bluer lights reflect right back at you once they hit snow or fog.

Standard Halogens are around 4000-43000k best all around for weather/brightness.
HIDs can range from 3000-15000k, for best low beam use 4200-5500k is the sweet spot for color and brightness.
White LEDs are 5500-8000k the 5500k would be the rarest as I hardly ever see them, and naturally would be the best (of LEDs) to use for low beam application.

The only LEDs I have seen perform as good as HIDs are SOME oem led headlight setups. And they perform that well because of proper optics inside the headlight assembly and high quality LEDs, not because they threw in a sub $100 led bulb not designed for the housing.

none of this is information I’m pulling out of my butt, I’ve done HID retros, I’ve purchased and used expensive LEDs, I’m not uneducated, and if you wanted to verify anything I say, you could quickly by using google. Instead you insist everything I say is false and accuse me of thinking all LEDs are just as bad as the cheapest ones are.

leds are a great technology, amazing for fog lights, dome lights, turn signals, and brake lights. I have them all, all the highest end from diode dynamics, and where I knock people most is when they purchase a $60 LED light kit for their low beams from Amazon and tell me they perform MUCH better than my $150 HID kit from theretrofitsource. My LED reverse lights cost $90. My front turn signals cost $90, my LED fogs cost $120. Yes they are very bright, but in no way shape or form is a LED low beam kit that costs less than my turn signals going to outperform my HIDs in projectors.

I’ll close with this, in dry weather, an expensive, high quality, LED bulb can outperform a halogen in terms of brightness and nicer color, but unless you live in a world without rain, it’s bound to rain at some night and you’ll have a harder time seeing with them when that night comes. Led bulbs that do their best to mimic the halogen filament are the best style LED bulb, GTR lighting is a leader in that regard.
TRS is not a lighting authority. They are lighting RETAILER. So using them as your primary source to quote supposed facts about automotive lighting is unwise. Especially ones that cannot be substantiated. Although I will attest that if there is any auto light retailer that knows what their talking about with respect to LEDs its Paul McCain @ Diode Dynamics. I recommend using SAE published papers, automotive lighting books and independent studies on various subjects involving forward lighting. These are the ONLY true sources that can validate information and claims with hardcore data through physical testing and research. Not just saying words.

I could not find anything on google stating that bluer light is worse in foul weather. I never said your statement was false though. I just questioned it and wanted to know a direct source for this information so that I can learn about it. But if there is no valid source (and no TRS or some other retrofitter/light shop does not count) than I have to question that its even valid. You cannot compare light colors from different light sources (halogen/HID/LED). Paul McCain at Diode Dynamics had this to say about it...

"Kelvin scale is not universal, it is limited to the type of light source for a given quadrant on the CIE chart. ANSI quadrant for LED 5700K is different than the ANSI quadrant for HID"




The current accepted CCT for white LEDs is 5500K which is said to be closer to that of daylight (not sunlight). When you look up in the sky on a clear day, what color do you see? BLUE. So in order to reproduce daylight at night, a white LED with a faint blue tint is better for our eyes. We are able to drive more comfortably and respond to road hazards and objects much quicker. In fact this study HERE where it tested 4 different CCTs, showed that the test occupants recorded increased visual performance and quicker reaction times with a color of 5037K. And concluded that LEDs with a higher CCT would result in BETTER reaction times.

As for yellow being the best color for fog lamps, this has been circulating on car forums for ages, even though the original study was performed over 80 years ago (and only in France)! This article written HERE is a good read as it explains the origin and ultimately demise of the use of selective yellow. My opinion is that, if it were truly proven scientifically that yellow is better for foul weather, than the SAE would no doubt have concluded so and pushed for US DOT to update the FMVSS 108 regs. Even the ECE would have adapted this requirement but the truth is, they have not.

And just to add on to my earlier post about some LEDs showing improvement over halogen. Below is the Cruze reflector with halogen vs the G7 LED. You'll notice the light pattern is very similar. There is a clear cutoff line and the hotspot is in the same location.

@ 9.5 ft
Halogen = 255 lux
LED = 454 lux (at same light point as halogen) but recorded a max of 548 lux an inch above that point






Now despite this LED appearing to be an improvement over halogen there are some shortcomings that I have discussed in prior posts of mine. But I wanted to illustrate that this LED bulb is MUCH better than the majority of LED bulbs being sold out there. And I would surely recommend this to anyone over a HID rebased kit.
 

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Are those the $150 bulbs you posted in the other LED thread?

Or have you not tested those yet (I'm guessing not, since it seemed like they were not released yet?)?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Alright guys, this is supposed to suggestions for LED bulbs, not a debate on whether LEDs are better or not.
 

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Are those the $150 bulbs you posted in the other LED thread?

Or have you not tested those yet (I'm guessing not, since it seemed like they were not released yet?)?
Correct, I haven't tested the DD yet. Even if you purchase it now it won't ship until January. And I'm debating on trying any more LED bulbs. I have been testing various OEM LED projectors from all the big automotive lighting manufacturers (Koito, Stanley, Hella, AL, Valeo, etc.) just trying to determine the best performer. And also which is easiest to retrofit in our vehicles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I am interested in retrofitting the Koito or Morimoto Bi-LED projectors. Have you done anything with the Morimoto? It looks pretty good, and I am also not sure how easy it will be to open up factory housing without ruining them :/
 

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I am interested in retrofitting the Koito or Morimoto Bi-LED projectors. Have you done anything with the Morimoto? It looks pretty good, and I am also not sure how easy it will be to open up factory housing without ruining them :/
I have not tried the M-LED and probably won't ever. It is way over priced and it's one of the most expensive LED projectors out there. It has a pretty bright hot spot, from the images I've seen, but the overall light pattern is much to be desired. I would rather sacrifice some distance throw for more light on the edges and under the curve. It's most appealing feature is the fitment shaft at the rear housing which makes retrofitting a breeze.

The Koito biled is definitely top dog as far as OEM LED projectors go. Great overall beam pattern with a very strong hotspot. This is why most vehicles fitted with the Koito get good headlamp performance ratings by the IIHS. If anyone is interested I have an extra pair for sale. PM me.

Opening the original Cruze headlamps are quite the chore due to its perma seal closure. It takes a lot of patience and practice to get then open without destroying the housing. This is why purchasing an aftermarket headlamp from TYC or Depo is a better option. Because the lens is attached to the housing with a butyl rubber sealant which comes off real easy with heat.
 
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