[llbanks522]

I personally think (IMHO) “how the owner drives the vehicle” May play a major role in cracking the pistons. I have 2,300 miles on my 2017 LT and have never “WOT” the engine. At best was 1/2 down to pass a bus or get onto the Parkway. I also followed the engine brake-in instructions in the owners manual. I don’t intend to “WOT” unless I have an emergency or I’m being chased by “Godzilla”. I will be visiting the dealership next month for (my first of 2) free oil changes. I will talk directly with the Service Manager (he did invite me to meet with him on my first visit). Let’s see how honest he is. I will report what I’m told.

Sorry, I forgot to add that if I crack a piston like “Pegasus” I will scream holy **** at Chevy!

 

[Taxman]

Assuming the problem really is LSPI brought about by trying to squeeze every last MPG out of the engine by minimizing heavy throttle fuel enrichment, then I would expect it to be much worse in manual transmission cars than in cars which automatically downshift when you tip into the throttle at low RPM. (one theory I've read says that ours do it and Ford's Ecoboost don't, because Ford was more conservative with the fuel profiles)

And if that's the case, it might be the real reason why GM is dropping the manual transmission option.

 

[Heliarc]

There are plenty of stock cars having the issues. Seems mostly dependent on being auto or standard. As auto will upshift when it gets under too much load.. And also how the owner drives the vehicle. What loads it stays at.. Etc.

I personally think (IMHO) “how the owner drives the vehicle” May play a major role in cracking the pistons. I have 2,300 miles on my 2017 LT and have never “WOT” the engine. At best was 1/2 down to pass a bus or get onto the Parkway. I also followed the engine brake-in instructions in the owners manual. I don’t intend to “WOT” unless I have an emergency or I’m being chased by “Godzilla”. I will be visiting the dealership next month for (my first of 2) free oil changes. I will talk directly with the Service Manager (he did invite me to meet with him on my first visit). Let’s see how honest he is. I will report what I’m told.

Yes. There are many stock vehicles having this issue. Standards are more prone because if the Driver does not upshift in a lug situation (keeps rpms below 2k) than the turbo will boost to maximum (17psi) and struggle to maintain the required torque.
---Creating VERY excessive strain and heat. Add to the equation of a very lean condition (generally good.. But not as much for boosted cars)
And it gets even hotter. And can create umstable combustion.
This is seen in high power levels too. Never ever lug a turbo car.

And..that is exactly what the automatics are doing as well... However the detant upshift will keep the engine mostly out of those ranges. However in 6th gear (cruising speed) it will try to maintain 6th quite irrationally (imo) and will boost to near maximim before upshifting.

So you see more manuals tham autos with the issue.

Yes hot rodding and driving incorrectly will cause that as well. Too much low end boost.
LSPI isn't exactly a "new" thing.
Preformance car tuners know that you can't run high boost in low rpm.
But it's happening because of the conditions that new mfgers are introducing in order to achieve HP, MPG, and drivability.

Dealership guys will almost always deny problems lol
Even now. I mentioned the pre AFM (DoD) engines having issues to my dealer (specifically 07-09) in the 5.3s and they say "Well i never heard that!!" Even though they were replacing many engines before 50k miles due to burning oil and piston carmelization of the rings.

My 07' Avalanche burned 5 quarts every 3000 miles. It ran great. Didnt smoke that i could tell. But it **** sure did something with it lol
Even the newest AFMs still having some issues. Hence why the "delete kit" is so popular. All for 5% mpg increase ?

 

[user1414]

Assuming the problem really is LSPI brought about by trying to squeeze every last MPG out of the engine by minimizing heavy throttle fuel enrichment, then I would expect it to be much worse in manual transmission cars than in cars which automatically downshift when you tip into the throttle at low RPM. (one theory I've read says that ours do it and Ford's Ecoboost don't, because Ford was more conservative with the fuel profiles)

And if that's the case, it might be the real reason why GM is dropping the manual transmission option.

I don't think it's anything that sinister or sneaky. Autotrader in Canada is showing 3236 Cruzes across the country. Of those, there are just 132 that are manual which is 4%. I'm going to go on a limb here and assume there is simply near zero demand for manuals these days hence the real reason they dropped it. Which is sad really.

 

[Heliarc]

I had a custom tune written after i studied the topic and talked to many of my car builder buddies.
My warranty will be out in less than a year from how many miles i drive. I didn't care as much about their warranty because in such a short time frame... My luck i would have the issue at 60,001 anyway.
And at that point if it isn't updated or figured out.. Its on you anyway. Lol
What i did;
Lowered maximum boost from 17psi to 12psi.
Richened A:F slightly.
Hardened shifts and raised the shift point threshold. (It drives like a car of the 2000s.)
Locked out 6th gear (automatic) until 73mph.

There is zero shutter. Mpg still averages 38mpg.
And with the other tweaks i cannot really feel a power difference.
Time will tell ?

I'm certainly not saying this will fix everything lol
Or to do it. But just sharing what i had done to mine.
But hey. I guess ill be able to see.
After speaking to a few ppl who have had a engine replaced (being stock) they was very worried about a repeating event later on.
I rolled the dice to see if i can prevent it from ever happening anyway. ?

 

[llbanks522]

So you see more manuals then autos with the issue.

Yes hot rodding and driving incorrectly will cause that as well. Too much low end boost.
LSPI isn't exactly a "new" thing.
Preformance car tuners know that you can't run high boost in low rpm.
But it's happening because of the conditions that new mfgers are introducing in order to achieve HP, MPG, and drivability.

Dealership guys will almost always deny problems lol

Interesting posts Heliarc. Because of yours and others I “Goggled” LSPI and watched a couple of YouTube videos describing it to try and fully understand it. You're right and it’s not a new thing. I want to be fully “armed” when I visit the dealership next month. I’m hoping the Service Manager is a straight shooter and not a BS artist.

 

[Heliarc]

Well they are under the gun from not only their dealership employment. But GM. They wont ever openly admit a issue.. Because if they did it could trigger alot of things later.
Other MFGs are also having the issue. It's just the trend right now. The engine will give nice torque and MPGs. But it can't be sustained while trying to use the bare minimum engine components. Trying to get more power density out of a economy engine.
If they found the components capable of running in those parameters than it would work. But it wouldn't be cheap.

Most boosted car tuning enthusiasts wont even wanna run over 15psi on engines producing 300hp.
You run into "heat soak" and knock fairly fast if you dont have matching hardware to provide what the engine needs.

I couldn't believe ppl be squeezing 23psi on the smallest turbo ive ever seen lol (Cruzes..when tuned)
Idk what or how they are rating their efficiency maps.. But it just blows my mind. An example, a T25 Garret is 2x the size of the turbo on the 1.4.. And runs out of map over 17psi.
Any more and seals blow. Bearings come apart. And it turns into a hair dryer..

But in the world of advancements and more MPG.. It seems like the manufactures are just getting ahead of themselves.
When they stand tested the 1.4l for (x) hours at loaded or unloaded ranges.. I very much doubt they tested it @ say 1800rpm -15-17psi boost (Maximum torque) for extended periods.
The idea of what would actually occur in the real world.
But ehh. Im sure they will figure it out eventually.

Good luck man. Hopefully these cruzes end up fixed and not popping pistons every 40k ?

 

[Pegasus]

Sorry, I forgot to add that if I crack a piston like “Pegasus” I will scream holy **** at Chevy!

I guess I need to clarify something. I never said I had a cracked piston. (yet) My wife and I are new Cruze owners, a new 2017, currently with 4K miles. We didn't know about the cracked piston issue before we bought the car. Now my wife and I both have some concerns about whether we made the right decision. Now maybe using 91 octane might prevent this or not (don't know that was just a theory some people on here are saying) but if we had been told that we needed to use 91 octane to prevent piston cracking, we neve would've bought the car. It's stupid to make an economy compact car and require it to have the most expensive gas. People buy economy cars to save fuel costs, not to have to spend an extra dollar a gallon to avoid engine damage.

Now perhaps higher octane isn't the answer, but who knows. It's not like anyone at Chevrolet has come out and said what the problem is or was with the cracked pistons. If they have can someone link me to it, because I haven't read it yet.

I asked my local dealers service dept. and they claim they don't know the official reason either. All they could tell me was they haven't seen any piston problems yet with the gen 2's but they aren't in a high volume market anyway, so they don't know if the problem is fixed or not. They are like my wife and I, keeping their fingers crossed and hoping it won't be an issue in the future.

 

[llbanks522]

I guess I need to clarify something. I never said I had a cracked piston. (yet) My wife and I are new Cruze owners, a new 2017, currently with 4K miles. We didn't know about the cracked piston issue before we bought the car. Now my wife and I both have some concerns about whether we made the right decision. Now maybe using 91 octane might prevent this or not (don't know that was just a theory some people on here are saying) but if we had been told that we needed to use 91 octane to prevent piston cracking, we neve would've bought the car. It's stupid to make an economy compact car and require it to have the most expensive gas. People buy economy cars to save fuel costs, not to have to spend an extra dollar a gallon to avoid engine damage.

Now perhaps higher octane isn't the answer, but who knows. It's not like anyone at Chevrolet has come out and said what the problem is or was with the cracked pistons. If they have can someone link me to it, because I haven't read it yet.

I asked my local dealers service dept. and they claim they don't know the official reason either. All they could tell me was they haven't seen any piston problems yet with the gen 2's but they aren't in a high volume market anyway, so they don't know if the problem is fixed or not. They are like my wife and I, keeping their fingers crossed and hoping it won't be an issue in the future.

Sorry about that. I should have gone all the way back and re-read your original posts. I too am worried about cracking a piston etc. and perhaps having to use premium gas. That is a lot of extra expense over 25k, 50k, 100k miles etc. to “help avoid” a “possible” problem. I visit my dealership next month for the first (of 2) free oil changes. I will be talking directly with the Service Manager about it then, but honestly, I really don’t expect a “true straight forward answer”. We’ll see.

 

[llbanks522]

Sorry about that. I should have gone all the way back and re-read your original posts.

The thread was started by Cruze Talk member “New Englander” and he indeed had to engine failures.

 

[snowwy66]

I think all of us are keeping our fingers crossed.

I just barely turned over 5k on mine.

 

[Farmerboy]

Well, my wife’s car (‘17 Hatch) has almost 50k on it. Hadn’t heard about this till now. No problem so far. Have used Amsoil SS all it’s life but almost always 87 octane. May have to start using higher.

 

[17Hatch6MT]

A friend has a Gen I Cruze with the 1.4T and 6AT, and I test drove a Gen II equipped similarly. With gentle acceleration, under light throttle, the AT upshifts at low RPM. You can get up to speed keeping the engine well under 2000 rpm in both cars. My time at the wheel of each was brief, so correct me if I'm wrong. So that's what I do with my MT car. I like getting good MPG, so I accelerate at a speed the engine can accommodate at low RPM and low throttle. That's pretty slow by the standards of impatient tailgater types, often young females, who don't understand the break for the 1-2 shift and give me ugly looks. (When the engine is fully warm, I'll goose it a little bit in 1st once it reaches the torque band, to give some space. But if it's cold, I drive really gently.)

Not sure I'm doing it 'safely' given this problem. It's so quiet, muffled by chassis design and by the turbo. Also, given the throttle-by-wire, I don't have as much feel through the pedal, and I don't know what the computer is actually doing with the physical throttle. And, the turbo throws a 'wild card' into the actual, physical throttle setting.

I am going to use some tricks outlined here, unless and until we have a word from GM. Top-tier premium fuel. Best oil (maybe the Amsoil SS), fuel treatment every 10,000 (just about due for the 1st, have bought the Gumout brand stuff, haven't put it in yet), haven't decided yet if the catch can is worthwhile.

I did have two LSPI incidents that I'm aware of. Both under heavy throttle. Once at around 2000 rpm, once in the upper 2000s to the best of my recollection. Pedal matted both times. I think both were after a dealer oil change where it was overfilled about 1/2 quart and where I think they may have used the prior revision of oil. I took it back to them after a few hundred mi to correct the overfill, before being aware of the oil revision and the propensity of these engines to blow up. They drained & refilled it but didn't change the filter. I haven't noticed a problem since, but I am also driving it differently, and using premium fuel, so not sure if anything has actually changed.

I thought on modern cars that it wasn't dangerous to mat the throttle, but hearing otherwise with this. Very disappointed that I can break it by using it normally. Haven't had that feeling while I owned a 1989 Honda and a 2001 Nissan, both with manual transmissions. My parents always had GM and they almost always had to pay for early engine repairs. I liked the cars otherwise... handling and driving feel and comfort balance was a GM strong suit and is also on this car.

I must say, the only thing more expensive than using top tier premium fuel and expensive oils and driving carefully, is selling the thing early and buying a different new car. I don't feel really wealthy, but, I could afford to do this I think. Not sure what type of Toyota I'm going to get next.

Interested to know what 'Italian tune-up' techniques work for this thing. Afraid to press the throttle to the floor now, but I suppose at 3,000 and above, it's ok. Haven't felt the need to redline it, but is this a necessity once in a while?

 

[jblackburn]

A friend has a Gen I Cruze with the 1.4T and 6AT, and I test drove a Gen II equipped similarly. With gentle acceleration, under light throttle, the AT upshifts at low RPM. You can get up to speed keeping the engine well under 2000 rpm in both cars. My time at the wheel of each was brief, so correct me if I'm wrong. So that's what I do with my MT car. I like getting good MPG, so I accelerate at a speed the engine can accommodate at low RPM and low throttle. That's pretty slow by the standards of impatient tailgater types, often young females, who don't understand the break for the 1-2 shift and give me ugly looks.

Not sure I'm doing it 'safely' given this problem. It's so quiet, muffled by chassis design and by the turbo. Also, given the throttle-by-wire, I don't have as much feel through the pedal, and I don't know what the computer is actually doing with the physical throttle. And, the turbo throws a 'wild card' into the actual, physical throttle setting.

I am going to use some tricks outlined here, unless and until we have a word from GM. Top-tier premium fuel. Best oil (maybe the Amsoil SS), fuel treatment every 10,000 (just about due for the 1st, have bought the Gumout brand stuff, haven't put it in yet), haven't decided yet if the catch can is worthwhile.

I did have two LSPI incidents that I'm aware of. Both under heavy throttle. Once at around 2000 rpm, once in the upper 2000s to the best of my recollection. Pedal matted both times. I think both were after a dealer oil change where it was overfilled about 1/2 quart and where I think they may have used the prior revision of oil. I took it back to them after a few hundred mi to correct the overfill, before being aware of the oil revision and the propensity of these engines to blow up. They drained & refilled it but didn't change the filter. I haven't noticed a problem since, but I am also driving it differently, and using premium fuel, so not sure if anything has actually changed.

I thought on modern cars that it wasn't dangerous to mat the throttle, but hearing otherwise with this. Very disappointed that I can break it by using it normally. Haven't had that feeling while I owned a 1989 Honda and a 2001 Nissan, both with manual transmissions. My parents always had GM and they almost always had to pay for early engine repairs. I liked the cars otherwise... handling and driving feel and comfort balance was a GM strong suit and is also on this car.

I must say, the only thing more expensive than using top tier premium fuel and expensive oils and driving carefully, is selling the thing early and buying a different new car. I don't feel really wealthy, but, I could afford to do this I think. Not sure what type of Toyota I'm going to get next.

Interested to know what 'Italian tune-up' techniques work for this thing. Afraid to press the throttle to the floor now, but I suppose at 3,000 and above, it's ok. Haven't felt the need to redline it, but is this a necessity once in a while?

Yes the AT upshifts pretty low as the engine has a pretty good low end. I spent most of my driving sub 2500 RPM, but it does see upper ranges one or twice a week because I hate other idiots on the road.

Both of my LSPI events were on 87 octane in the mid 3000s under heavy throttle. Definite hiccup and weird noise from the motor under acceleration. I've also felt it do a weird hiccup on 89 after accelerating and then backing off on the throttle.

Since a diet of Amsoil XL and 93, I haven't felt it again.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[Heliarc]

Interesting reads.

The LSPI events you guys are speaking of. Did it feel like an immediate "cutout" in power?
I felt that a few times before tuned down.
It occured around 2800rpm going uphill with cruise control set.

I had the handheld connected after the first one to see if it detected knock or misfires. Nothing came up on the KR or Misfire log.
(I hadn't uploaded the tune yet)

Another good thing to help prevent this is to clean the intake valves periodically using some of the spray-in-intake method when following instructions. (Assuming the current theory is also correct about the buildup) The valves get very nasty on just about all DI engines.
Couldn't hurt either way.
Im still near certain it is from too much pressure/power density/heat from the lean boosting conditions. Add some debris on the valves to get nice and ?

Hopefully this gets totally resolved in the coming years. However it may.

I'd hate to think of the gen2s as an avoided vehicle. GM (Opel) may just have to use some internals of higher strength and/or fine tune everything. Who knows.
?

 

[17Hatch6MT]

Yes, grinding sound from under the hood, pronounced >50% decrease in power, lasted about as long as it took my mind to register there was a problem & to react by lifting my foot.

 

[jblackburn]

Yes, grinding sound from under the hood, pronounced >50% decrease in power, lasted about as long as it took my mind to register there was a problem & to react by lifting my foot.

Same. Second or so.

 

[llbanks522]

I am going to use some tricks outlined here, unless and until we have a word from GM. Top-tier premium fuel. Best oil (maybe the Amsoil SS), fuel treatment every 10,000 (just about due for the 1st, have bought the Gumout brand stuff, haven't put it in yet), haven't decided yet if the catch can is worthwhile.

I did have two LSPI incidents that I'm aware of. Both under heavy throttle. Once at around 2000 rpm, once in the upper 2000s to the best of my recollection. Pedal matted both times. I think both were after a dealer oil change where it was overfilled about 1/2 quart and where I think they may have used the prior revision of oil. I took it back to them after a few hundred mi to correct the overfill, before being aware of the oil revision and the propensity of these engines to blow up. They drained & refilled it but didn't change the filter. I haven't noticed a problem since, but I am also driving it differently, and using premium fuel, so not sure if anything has actually changed

I must say, the only thing more expensive than using top tier premium fuel and expensive oils and driving carefully, is selling the thing early and buying a different new car. I don't feel really wealthy, but, I could afford to do this I think. Not sure what type of Toyota I'm going to get next.

Interested to know what 'Italian tune-up' techniques work for this thing. Afraid to press the throttle to the floor now, but I suppose at 3,000 and above, it's ok. Haven't felt the need to redline it, but is this a necessity once in a while?

Yikes, there are so many different “Threads & Posts” about LSPI, cracked pistons etc., premium gas vs 87 Octane, premium oils etc that my 71 year old brain is spinning.?. I’ve watched videos on LSPI and read articles about it and lots of individual posts to the point of WTF! Any way I went to COSTCO today and filled up my “Hot Red” 2017 LT with regular 87 octane. Today’s prices in New Jersey $2.539 for 87 and $2.899 for 93 octane. COSTCO has (hands down) the lowest gas prices in the state. I’ve run some actual numbers based on my first 5 months of ownership: (Remember I’m retired so not too many miles driven)

2,356 miles, total of 89 gallons used. Had I used premium gas I would have spent $32 more
Now let’s go further (using a 28 MPG average)
25k miles = 892 gallons or $321 more using premium over regular
50k miles = 1784 gallons or $642 more
75k miles = 2676 gallons or $963 more
100k miles = 3568 gallons or $1,284 more

That’s not too bad of an extra expense (to possibly avoid a “possible” major engine failure) but here in NJ the difference is only 36 cents a gallon more. Some CT members have said premium gas is a $1.00 or more per gallon higher! I’m not considering $$ for oil because you should always use the best oil regardless of the make/model of the car.

I can’t wait to get that first free oil change at the dealership. Perhaps I can make the Service Managers head spin TOO. LOL ?

 

[Pegasus]

Today’s prices in New Jersey $2.539 for 87 and $2.899 for 93 octane. COSTCO has (hands down) the lowest gas prices in the state. I’ve run some actual numbers based on my first 5 months of ownership: (Remember I’m retired so not too many miles driven)

2,356 miles, total of 89 gallons used. Had I used premium gas I would have spent $32 more
Now let’s go further (using a 28 MPG average)
25k miles = 892 gallons or $321 more using premium over regular
50k miles = 1784 gallons or $642 more
75k miles = 2676 gallons or $963 more
100k miles = 3568 gallons or $1,284 more

That’s not too bad of an extra expense (to possibly avoid a “possible” major engine failure) but here in NJ the difference is only 36 cents a gallon more. Some CT members have said premium gas is a $1.00 or more per gallon higher! I’m not considering $$ for oil because you should always use the best oil regardless of the make/model of the car.

I can’t wait to get that first free oil change at the dealership. Perhaps I can make the Service Managers head spin TOO. LOL 

I wish they had those prices where I live. The station nearest to me was 2.599 for 87 octane and 3.499 for premium, a ninety cent difference. This is actually an improvement, at times I've seen the difference a full dollar. Another station had regular for 2.899 but premium for 3.699, only an 80 cent difference. There are no Costco's near where I live, or it would be worth it to get a membership.

 

[17Hatch6MT]

It may be important to use 'Top Tier' fuels also. These have more detergents.