Joined
·
17,486 Posts
Well at least it happened before Lordstown; unfortunately it happened 300 miles from home where there are no dealers open Sundays. Checked the coolant Friday before I left and it was full.
![Land vehicle Vehicle Car Auto part Engine]()
![Floor Automotive tire Auto part Tire Flooring]()
My turn for a water pump!
1 - 20 of 63 Posts
Joined
·
543 Posts
I'm struggling with this myself. My daughter is home from college for the summer. Her school is 1000 miles from home, and her '12 Eco has 56,000 miles. I think I'm going to install a WP even though it's not leaking as a maintenance item. Hopefully the parts in the GM system are an improved design. Is there a better than OE aftermarket replacement?
Joined
·
17,486 Posts
Joined
·
3,975 Posts
Was discussing this with my Son who's in the auto supply design, engineering, testing, etc. business and we both are very puzzled by the Cruze WP issues. Granted it's a small, turbo, engine, but it's still a water pump. Something that's been around the internal combustion engine world for so many decades and how many millions of engines? Has anyone ever learned what is failing with these? And why does it keep failing?
Joined
·
589 Posts
Not sure if they improved it or not but I am on my third pump now, the factory pump went at around 17k, the second one was somewhere in the 30k range but never started leaking, it whistled! The third one that is on now has been there for about two years and 30K miles, it may have been an improved design. Keeping my fingers crossed!
Joined
·
17,486 Posts
I agree - not a complicated part. Toyota had issues with pumps on their 2.4L engines a few years back as well. I am wondering if it has something to do with the serpentine tensioner or belt routing putting stress on the pump bearing. I had been using the AC off and on on the trip down for the first time this year.
To others - supposedly it has been redesigned/revised. I do not know think that it has helped the failure rate significantly.
Other than a 'I am told updated in some way' pump, the TTY bolt torque spec has been changed three times.....most recent about a year ago.
Whatever was in the printed manual no longer applies and the newest specs are shown on GM global.
Requires the use of a rather high tech torque wrench that measures degrees of travel after the specified torque is met......(inch pounds.)
Rob
Whatever was in the printed manual no longer applies and the newest specs are shown on GM global.
Requires the use of a rather high tech torque wrench that measures degrees of travel after the specified torque is met......(inch pounds.)
Rob
Joined
·
2,859 Posts
I had a water pump fail back in 2014 in my 2011, simple fix engine was smooth ever since, good luck with yours.
Joined
·
6,917 Posts
My cruze had a constant loss of coolant since 20K, as well as coolant smell at times. It was never allot, would put 10oz of coolant in tank every fall but nothing the dealer could locate. I noticed it was very low at 94K, topped it off and in less than a week was already low again. Not only that it was either the serpentine belt slipping on all that coolant or the pump bearing started to make a loud metal on metal squeal sound at times.
First time I heard the sound It happened for 10 seconds and immediately stopped, figured I had a rock caught in caliper. After the second time when it did it at start up(not driving), I investigated and found coolant everywhere around the waterpump. Pump replaced at 94K.
First time I heard the sound It happened for 10 seconds and immediately stopped, figured I had a rock caught in caliper. After the second time when it did it at start up(not driving), I investigated and found coolant everywhere around the waterpump. Pump replaced at 94K.
Were you adding fluid on a regular basis? My 2012 tops off with maybe a quarter inch of antifreeze about every three months. Of course the dealership said this won't become a problem as long as it doesn't get real low. I remain skeptical.
Hey ya'll. I have about 80k on my Cruze, and haven't had a problem with the WP yet. I was just wondering how will I know if it is going bad? I am about to drive from Illinois to Seattle in a week and don't want to encounter any problems. The levels in the reservoir look normal and I haven't noticed any leaks. Is there a way to test it to make sure its good?
Joined
·
3,975 Posts
I find this perplexing. My '92 Saturn never used AF in the 11 years we owned it. My '97 vehicle never consumed any AF in the 16 years I owned it. The radiator was always full. My '03 hasn't used any AF in the 13 years we've owned it, even after thermostat change and flush in year 10. My current '13 ride has used none either. My cars get fluids checked the first of every month. Why is it OK for the Cruze to use AF to the point it needs topping off every 3 months?
Joined
·
17,486 Posts
No, almost never - a small top up a couple months ago for fluid that was maybe 1/2" below where it was 3 years ago. It hadn't dropped since then until now, when the tank is completely empty.
The first year, I was losing from about the top to bottom of the arrow on the tank worth of fluid every few months and occasionally got a whiff of hot coolant. I replaced the cap and haven't had an issue until now.
Joined
·
17,486 Posts
Not really. Like I said, mine went without warning. No noises, no coolant loss. The pulley doesn't look like it's doing anything weird. It's just a good thing to check regularly.
My brother actually noticed the smell from the side he was sitting on, and my dad noticed the puddle in the driveway after backing out. No signs of anything wrong before the trip down here.
Shop manual states.
"Install the 5 water pump bolts (4) and the 5 engine front cover bolts (3) and tighten in a cross sequence to 8 Nm (71 lb in)"
So exactly what changed, and what is this torque to yield?
Joined
·
8,003 Posts
Wikipedia.
In practical terms, it's a single-use bolt. You loosen it, you replace it. Torquing it down involves tightening it to to a specific torque, and then turning it a certain number of degrees past that. You'll notice that spec throughout your Cruze manual - something like "10 ft lbs + 30 degrees".
You're going to have to add a torque angle meter to your toolbox.
Or, you could go for the tried and true method - toque it until it breaks, then back off half a turn.
I'd like to see Robbie's recommendation for tools, since I need to get one as well.
Certainly know what toque to yield to means, been dealing with this since aluminum replaced cast iron in engine heads. Another more accurate statement on these bolts are overpriced and throwaway. And the solution they came up with to attempt to keep the head gasket tight when slapping on an aluminum head that has seven times the thermal expansion rate of the cast iron engine block it was installed on. Not to mention with even minor engine over heating, this head can crack. New problems that were never problems before.Wikipedia.
In practical terms, it's a single-use bolt. You loosen it, you replace it. Torquing it down involves tightening it to to a specific torque, and then turning it a certain number of degrees past that. You'll notice that spec throughout your Cruze manual - something like "10 ft lbs + 30 degrees".
You're going to have to add a torque angle meter to your toolbox.
Or, you could go for the tried and true method - toque it until it breaks, then back off half a turn.
I'd like to see Robbie's recommendation for tools, since I need to get one as well.
But we are talking about the water pump, not the engine head. And the shop manual doesn't say a thing about using new bolts, just using the old bolts providing the heads don't break off when trying to remove them. Another new problem by using cold rolled steel bolts in aluminum. Just torque the old bolts in a cross pattern to 71 inch pounds, or pound inches, take your choice, still a product, doesn't make any difference if inches or pounds come first.
Another new problem that was never a problem before is the single belt drive system, on a vehicle like my old 72 Fleetwood, five separate belts were used. Even had the AC idler pulley seizing up on a long trip, but had its own belt break due to a limited lubricated ball bearing. But the other four belts were good, could still drive it. With a signal belt drive system, if that belt brakes, you are dead.
Granted, they were a pain, needed a pry bar, and a belt tensioner gauge to properly adjust each belt. My 454 CID and Toyota Surpa uses just three belts.
04 Cavalier was not much of a problem with a single belt, water pump and PS steering pump was driven by the engine timing chain, that left the AC compressor and the alternator as the only driven components, but still dumb, the alternator would quit working if the AC compressor bearing would seen. Least with a good battery, could drive over an hour, but would be nice if the alternator had it own belt. You won't die without AC.
Cruze did get rid of the PS pump, but put the water pump back in the single belt drive system. Each and every component see the same load, the major culprit is the AC compressor itself. Usually the first item to go in these things is the tensioner pulley, has a very tiny bearing compared to what is used in the compressor. In theory at least, all bearings should be the same exact size, screw theory.
One advantage the Cruze has is an electronically control variable displacement compressor that put the minimum load on the belt in cooler temperatures. Willing to bet the people having a warm climate are the ones with the most water pump problems. Heck last year, we only used the AC twice and that is with the wife abroad, hardly ever use it myself. Another load is the alternator, as far as I am concerned the rear window defroster doesn't even exist. But with AC not only the compressor, but the blower motor is adding an additional belt load putting extra stress on it, little thing sucks 22 amperes.
Apparently the water pump bearing is the culprit, gets sloppy and stresses the neoprene seal, is back driven by the belt, but still sees the same tension as the rest of the stuff.
And you cannot drive these things with low coolant. Can get gasket leaks as well, never take the time to clean off the old gasket, but leakage occurs at the gasket joint. Put over 320K miles on my 65 Buick and never had water pump problems that does prove, GM at one time knew how to design a good one.
With multiple sourcing going on today, no telling which vendor is making the poorest pumps that is why I state buying a brand new vehicle is like buying a lottery ticket. Are you feeling lucky?
Would last longer if you left your AC off plus all the electrical loads on the alternator.
So are the new pumps coming with TTY bolts? And is this the problem with leaky water pumps? Or is it that very limited lubricated ball bearing inside of the pump the problem? Also this bearing is seeing the most heat with super high coolant temperatures, this will cause the grease inside to dry up much quicker.
One thing for sure, once it goes, you will be stranded.
1 - 20 of 63 Posts
Join the discussion
