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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
But yet they claim to be the industry standard.

Were you ever offered their trade-in prices for a new or newer vehicle by any dealer? I, and anyone I know sure wasn't, substantially less, reason why people either drive them into the ground or try to sell them their selfs.

Ha I took my 88 Supra Turbo in with only 46,000 miles and in practically show room condition to see what its worth, $2,500 according to their books, see vehicles on their lots with over 150,000 miles on with price tags over 10,000 bucks, darn things are worn out. Ha, show me one vehicle you have in your lot in this condition and low mileage, sorry, we have to go by book prices.

No hassle prices are the same on any used vehicle way above these books excellent condition retail prices. Only once did I even see a vehicle worth the retail price, and offered that for it, was turned down cold. Safety inspections are a joke, as long as that wear indicator is not touching the rotor, its good to go. And the way parts costs are today not to mention labor, replacing all the brakes can be a small fortune, even doing it yourself. Ha this dealer called me a couple of weeks later to offer me this car at retail, came back for 500 bucks less.

With these books, age of the vehicle is the key parameter, mileage is a joke, a vehicle with extra mileage is worth about 2.8 cents less per mile, with 100k miles, worth about $2,800.00 less, the darn thing, and I don't care how clean it is, its worn out.

For my Cruze, none of these many dealer installed options are not even shown in this books, and nor is the leather, but this is what the insurance companies go by. Screw you, not signing the release until I get out of it what I have in it.

Before this so-called accident, our Cruze was in showroom condition, put a lot of extra work into it soldering bare copper wires crimped into poorly plated terminals, replaced most of those cheap made in China with good ones. Not because I was doing this for fun, didn't want my wife to get stranded in some God forsaken place. So it was far better than OE. not asking for my labor, just for the cost of parts. Tires were brand new, that doesn't make a difference either, plus the car was driven very sanely.

What you do find on the lots, are vehicles that cost the previous owners way to much money to have them "professionally" repaired, and was cheaper to trade them in rather to have them repaired by the "experts". I don't call them that, they call themselves that. Buy one of these, and you have your work cut out for you.
 

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Were you ever offered their trade-in prices for a new or newer vehicle by any dealer?
When I traded my 04 cavalier for my cruze, dealer gave me top bluebook value for my trade. Went to a different chevy dealer to trade cruze, was offered thousand less than top blue book for my cruze. Drove the Cruze 6 more months and went back to my original chevy dealer, again they gave me top dollar bluebook value for my cruze, the same price the other dealer had offered 6 months before.


Not sure how much profit my dealer looks to make, currently has 12 used cruze including mine, its been sitting 2.5 months already. They are currently asking $3500 more than I got in trade. No way I would pay close to $10,000 for a used cruze with 95,000 miles on it!!!
 

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Pffft...it IS all about the dealer. For example, with my GS it says trade in is avg 36k top 38k. Perfect right? I bet I take it to a local dealer in Miami and they offer me 28 to 30k. But if I go north just a few miles, I will get top dollar for my trade in.
 

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Cars depreciate and very fast. I did a quote for 2012 2LT Cruze online with Kelly blue book and it has a tab to make adjustments for a 2 LT. I would be upset if I were in your situation too, but the car values are not based upon a 12 year linear depreciation. Insurance companies pay what the car should retail for. I have access to Manheim auction results which would be a wholesale number, the best sale for 2lt with 6 speed with 36k miles was $9700. Most were less than that. Insurance company pays retail number plus sales tax. Just the way it works, in your situation it sucks, if your wife would had been at fault you should get a similar settlement. Some insurance companies if a car is totaled in less than a year allow you to replace with new car, but that's not the norm. My guess is 12k to 13.5k is the appx value of this car, you might get a slight adjustment for new tires. The rest of solder joints and all that adds no value to a wrecked car, zero.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yeah, was told that, doesn't make any difference if we drove this into a tree or victims of a DUI, NADA book price is the same.

One advantage of being hit by a DUI, his insurance company cannot say my wife is 30% guilty for being there. Insurance companies look at this in their view, if you weren't there, wouldn't have been a so-called accident. But since this guy was arrested for being DUI, its 100% with a state law.

Wife's home country is entirely different, for one thing, they don't drive their vehicles into the ground, they keep on driving them. Ha, like going to antique car show, lots of 40's and 50's cars running around. But they don't have road salt that is killing us.

She questions dealers as well, can only reply, this is why they call them dealers. We are only making making a hundred bucks selling a new vehicle. Ha, can only reply, just to keep your doors open, would have to sell another new vehicle every two minutes. Better get a bar code reader and hire a clerk for two bucks an hour.

Must have visited over two dozen dealers this last week, and during working hours since I am retired. For all of them, was the only guy there, just a bunch of guys, well some gals, just standing around doing nothing. How can you earn a living standing around doing nothing, and only making a hundred bucks if you sell a brand new vehicle?

Not even sure why they have salesperson, can't do anything, if you make a counter offer, have to ask the sales manager. If you agree to buy, switched over to accounting, where they try to sell you a whole bunch of extra protection stuff. Just reply, if I need all that, I am looking someone place else, works.
 

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I own a very small business, when I visit a dealer I see huge costs, inventory, insurance, utilities etc. they have to mark cars up to cover costs and some profit. Their margins on add on stuff, warranties, etc has large margins. I was with a friend looking at new Lincoln and ford last Friday, both of the sales people we had were very good, knew the product and was very professional.
 

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It's amazing the range of offers that different dealers will make on the same car. I've seen as much as 25% swing lately. (Meaning that, say for example my car wholesales at 50K, I would see offers anywhere from 40K to 50K.) Some dealers always try to steal the trade in vehicles, and they often find people who don't want to mess with it so they accept the lowball offer, no questions asked, and then the dealer can make a killing on the resale.
 

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It's amazing the range of offers that different dealers will make on the same car. I've seen as much as 25% swing lately. (Meaning that, say for example my car wholesales at 50K, I would see offers anywhere from 40K to 50K.) Some dealers always try to steal the trade in vehicles, and they often find people who don't want to mess with it so they accept the lowball offer, no questions asked, and then the dealer can make a killing on the resale.
Many folks just don't know how to find values and don't have an interest and just take the first offer, from my perspective that is normally just a starting point, but need good information to know what is a reasonable counter offer. Dealers make their money when they act tough and like the first offer is the best we can do. I always get more, just ask and be professional and willing to walk away. Most of the time they need my business more than I need theirs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Same here, even got eight quotes on my then new Cruze, helps to think what you have to do to earn that buck.

Was kind of impatient to replaced the Cruze, but the end of August is when the best deals are on. Besides, having fun driving my Supra, the more I drive it, the better it runs. Even get offers to buy it, about a half an hour ago.

My limit is when they start pouring road salt on the roads again.

Also nice owning a vehicle that I can do anything to without having to run to a dealer and beg for firmware. Also a vehicle that has towing hooks on it and NO TPMS or traction control, has a real limited slip differential for this. They don't like them any more.

Wife also commented she saw that Airbags deployed on the DIC, now I am wondering if there should be a recall on these things. What good are airbags if they don't deployed?
 

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A couple months ago I had them apraise my Cruze at work for the heck of it. I have a 2014 1LT with every package but the safety tech. With a nearly immaculate car, brand new tires, and 15 thousand miles they told me it was worth 10k tops. Pretty funny if you ask me, considering they sell ones they buy from the auction for 16k in worse shape than mine. Also Nick, airbags deployed was probably the seatbelt tensioners exploded. They probably did that to keep the seatbelt pulled tight so your wife wouldn't move too much and get whiplash.
 

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I wouldn't settle until I got at least 21,000 for the vehicle alone. But that's me. Both of the insurance companies want you to take the silly amount of money and just walk away. When they see you have something that will waste a lot of their time and money, you can get a much better offer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Would be interesting to learn if the seatbelt tensioners were deployed. If not have to be manually deployed in the process of wrecking the vehicle. Shop manuals indexes codes by code number, not by function or purpose. Would take quite awhile to look up each code, but do claim codes for seatbelts, so why the airbags?

Pretensioner Handling and Scrapping

Scrapping Procedure

During the course of a vehicles useful life, certain situations may arise which will necessitate the disposal of a live (undeployed) pretensioner. The following information covers the proper procedures for the disposing of a live (undeployed) pretensioner. Deploy the pretensioner before disposal. Do not dispose of a live (undeployed) pretensioner through normal disposal channels until the pretensioner has been deployed. The following information covers the proper procedures for the disposing of a live (undeployed) pretensioner.



  • After replacement of a pretensioner under warranty. The pretensioner may need to be returned undeployed to the original manufacturer of pretensioner.
  • If the vehicle is the subject of a Product Liability report related to the SIR system and is subject to a Preliminary Investigation (GM-1241). Do not alter the SIR system in any manner.
  • If the vehicle is involved in a campaign affecting the pretensioners. Follow the instructions in the Campaign Service Bulletin for proper SIR handling procedures.
Deployment Procedures

Note: Some countries, states or localities may not allow service deployment of air bags without special permission or training. Local laws regarding deploying and scrapping of air bags/devices with pyrotechnics must be followed.

The pretensioner can be deployed inside or outside of the vehicle. The method used depends upon the final disposition of the vehicle. Review the following procedures in order to determine which will work best in a given situation.

Deployment Inside the Vehicle

Refer to Inflatable Restraint Module Handling and Scrapping See: Air Bag Systems\Air Bag\Service and Repair\Procedures for deploying the pretensioner inside vehicle under Vehicle Scrapping Procedure.

Deployment Outside Vehicle for Seat Belt Pretensioners

Deploy the seat belt pretensioners outside of the vehicle when the vehicle will be returned to service. Situations that require deployment outside of the vehicle include the following:



  • Using the SIR diagnostics, you determine that the seat belt pretensioner is malfunctioning.
  • The pretensioner pigtail (if equipped) is damaged.
  • The pretensioner connector is damaged.
  • The pretensioner connector terminal is damaged.
Deployment and disposal of a malfunctioning seat belt pretensioner is subject to any required retention period.

Warning

In order to prevent accidental deployment of the pretensioner which could cause personal injury, do not dispose of an undeployed pretensioner as normal shop waste. The undeployed pretensioner contains substances that could cause severe illness or personal injury if the sealed container is damaged during disposal. Use the following deployment procedures to safely dispose of an undeployed pretensioner. Failure to dispose of a pretensioner as instructed may be a violation of federal, state, or local laws.

Warning

When you are deploying a pretensioner for disposal, perform the deployment procedures in the order listed. Failure to follow the procedures in the order listed may result in personal injury.

Special Tools


  • EL-39401-B - SIR Deployment Fixture
  • EL-38826 - SIR Deployment Harness





  1. Turn the ignition switch to the OFF position.
  2. Remove the ignition key.
  3. Put on safety glasses.
  4. Remove the seat belt pretensioner from the vehicle.
  5. When carrying a pretensioner to the deployment area keep the open end of pretensioner pointed away from the body.





  1. Clear a space on the ground about 1.85 M (6 ft) in diameter for deployment of the pretensioner. If possible, use a paved, outdoor location free of activity. Otherwise, use a space free of activity on the shop floor. Make sure you have sufficient ventilation.
  2. Make sure no loose or flammable objects are in the area.
  3. Place the EL-39401-B - SIR deployment fixture in the center of the cleared area.
  4. Fill the fixture plastic reservoir with water or sand.





  1. Mount the pretensioner (1) in the SIR deployment fixture (3) with the open end facing up using the following mounting method.

  1. Adjust and secure the EL-39401-B arms (4) to the deployment fixture (3).
  2. To mount, use the proper size bolt (2) and nut (5) with washers in order to secure the pretensioner (1) to the deployment fixture brackets (4).
  3. Securely tighten all fasteners prior to deployment.





  1. Inspect the EL-38826 - SIR deployment harness and the appropriate pigtail adapter for damage. Replace as needed.
  2. Short the 2 SIR deployment harness (1) leads together using one banana plug seated into the other.
  3. Connect the appropriate pigtail adapter (2) to the SIR deployment harness (1).





  1. Extend the SIR deployment harness and adapter to full length from the deployment fixture.





  1. Connect the pretensioner (1) to the adapter (2) on the deployment harness (3).
Note: The rapid gas expansion involved with deploying a pretensioner is very loud. Notify all the people in the immediate area that you intend to deploy the seat belt pretensioner.



  1. Clear the area of people.





Warning

When you are deploying a pretensioner for disposal, perform the deployment procedures in the order listed. Failure to follow the procedures in the order listed may result in personal injury.


  1. Separate the 2 banana plugs on the SIR deployment harness.





Note: When the seat belt pretensioner deploys, the deployment fixture may jump about 30 cm (1 ft) vertically. This is a normal reaction of the seat belt pretensioner due to the force of the rapid expansion of gas inside the pretensioner.


  1. Place a 12 V minimum/2 A minimum power source (i.e., vehicle battery) near the shorted end of the harness.
  2. Connect the SIR deployment harness wires to the power source. Pretensioner deployment will occur when contact is made.
  3. Disconnect the SIR deployment harness from the power source after the pretensioner deploys.





  1. Seat one banana plug into the other in order to short the deployment harness leads.
  2. If the pretensioner did not deploy, disconnect the adapter and discontinue the procedure. Contact the Technical Assistance Group. Otherwise, proceed to the following steps.
  3. Put on a pair of shop gloves.
  4. Disconnect the pigtail adapter from the pretensioner as soon as possible.
  5. Inspect the pigtail adapter and the SIR deployment harness. Replace as needed.
  6. Dispose of the deployed pretensioner through normal refuse channels.
  7. Wash hands with a mild soap.
 

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I wouldn't settle until I got at least 21,000 for the vehicle alone. But that's me. Both of the insurance companies want you to take the silly amount of money and just walk away. When they see you have something that will waste a lot of their time and money, you can get a much better offer.
You would never settle. Insurance companies can't stay in business if they make payments like that on a car going on 5 years old for car settlement alone. Injuries medical bills pain and suffering may add up quickly. A car is a commodity and we have places to determine a good estimate of value. Would you buy a 2012 Cruze lt2 and pay $21000? The answer is heck no. Starting to think some of you still believe in Santa.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Ha, never met a St. Nick yet, even with a real fireplace with a real chimney. Some people met Saintless Nick, me.

Depends how desperate you are, have the cash for a new vehicle and three other vehicles to drive, not nearly as many as Robby, but three extras is enough for me.

Already been in a court of law, with facts and figures, several times, it it leads to this. I can be patient. Just have to be prepared and take nice pills. Already gave the insurance company facts and figures as to what I have in this car with a fair deduction for our usage. Ball is in their court now, see what they say.

Ha, took a break for lunch and switched on the TV to watch a Cruze commercial pushing an ipad mounted in the dash. For some reason, that didn't turn me on. Also saw a nice 69 Buick Electra, that turned me on, but don't feel my wife would like to drive a boat like that. Just nice to see stainless steel instead of plastic.
 

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Cars depreciate and very fast. I did a quote for 2012 2LT Cruze online with Kelly blue book and it has a tab to make adjustments for a 2 LT. I would be upset if I were in your situation too, but the car values are not based upon a 12 year linear depreciation. Insurance companies pay what the car should retail for. I have access to Manheim auction results which would be a wholesale number, the best sale for 2lt with 6 speed with 36k miles was $9700. Most were less than that. Insurance company pays retail number plus sales tax. Just the way it works, in your situation it sucks, if your wife would had been at fault you should get a similar settlement. Some insurance companies if a car is totaled in less than a year allow you to replace with new car, but that's not the norm. My guess is 12k to 13.5k is the appx value of this car, you might get a slight adjustment for new tires. The rest of solder joints and all that adds no value to a wrecked car, zero.
Insurance companies usually pay ACV, actual cash value, not what the dealer retails the car for? Most Car Dealers use the Black Book. Dealers can make much more money selling a used car vs a new car.
NADA Guide vs. Black Book vs. Kelley Blue Book - Autoblog
 
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