Chevrolet Cruze Forums banner

1 - 20 of 45 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,975 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
According to the local news tonight, there are 12 car makers lobbying (Citizens United Decision Again) the feds for a law that will make it illegal for an individual to "tinker" with a car's electronics. The premiss is that cars are now too complex electronically for backyard hammer mechanics to mess with them, thus potentially causing safety issues to others. As if the car makers themselves are fool proof in this area. Maybe I won't buy another new car ever again and just run the two I have until I croak.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
574 Posts
I do get what they are saying but I hope this doesn't pass. I know I have a scan tool & love it. It points me in the right direction. I would like to know how to work on lets say a chevy volt, but I have no idea where to start. I also know I would join a site like this on the volt & learn all about it. newer cars are a lot different than my 1st that's it for sure.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
Proof positive Politicians are some of the dumbest people on earth. They aren't intelligent enough to change a flat tire, and don't think anyone else is either because they believe they are sooooo much smarter than everyone else.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,296 Posts
So called expert mechanics have zero electronic training, some take a half a day just to download firmware.

I'll let you know about a very little fact, on the really complex stuff, GM and others contract this out, don't want to pay moving expenses, benefits, and goes to lowest bidder. And not even the people that are left behind knows what is going on. One reason why you will read in any shop manual, solid state do not test, replace it with a known good one. Which translates to having an identical model you can switch parts with, this is how troubleshooting is done.

If they want to pass a law, get rid of all this complex electronic crap, here is another fact, vehicles run in a military environment so do they use military grade parts? Hail no, consumer grade parts, because they are a few cents cheaper.

Would be happy to state this in a court of law.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,918 Posts
Suspect they want laws like this is place so the end user can't disable any built in tracking systems. The day something like this passes I will be buying a pre-emmisions carberator v8 as my daily driver. Something to be said for the simplicity of not having all this crap to fail anyway.

Sure my MPG will suck but with no car payment I would have no issue running that money though the gas tank.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,781 Posts
I don't give it much chance of passing. Too many people work on their own cars or have an independent shop work on them. There's also the whole question of "lock in" when only the manufacturer can provide repair.

However, the whole question is likely to come up again when we start having self-driving cars. I'm not so sure about letting other people modify that code. At that point the automotive industry might have to start copying the FAA when it comes to working on the self-driving parts of cars. Only licensed people can touch it, only certified parts can be used. Mods have to go though a FAA-like process to get approved.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,080 Posts
I think you are being "G'D up" by this. The key words are "individual and tinker", all you need is for a qualified person to OK what you have done. This only applies to electronics at this stage. Get the gun lobby on side and it will never happen.
 

·
Resident Forum Drunkard
Joined
·
9,265 Posts
IDGAF ... Jim sorry Brother But I am having a Ecoboost Mustang Built for Meself and shoot man ya only live once and apparrently I am on the downstroke of lifeterms . so what do ya think of those jellybeans of information from 1 ... View attachment 143745
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
I don't give it much chance of passing. Too many people work on their own cars or have an independent shop work on them. There's also the whole question of "lock in" when only the manufacturer can provide repair.

However, the whole question is likely to come up again when we start having self-driving cars. I'm not so sure about letting other people modify that code. At that point the automotive industry might have to start copying the FAA when it comes to working on the self-driving parts of cars. Only licensed people can touch it, only certified parts can be used. Mods have to go though a FAA-like process to get approved.
And cars will cost $15 million a piece. Look what they did to the small aircraft industry.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,080 Posts
And cars will cost $15 million a piece. Look what they did to the small aircraft industry.
Don't worry about the cost of the cars, just worry about the inbuilt navigation missing that a street has become one way and sending you up it the wrong way!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
Don't worry about the cost of the cars, just worry about the inbuilt navigation missing that a street has become one way and sending you up it the wrong way!
Or off a cliff.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,781 Posts
More info. In some cases better, in some cases worse. It seems that it would still be open to 3rd party and parts replacements, but it's designed to lock out the curious who want to learn what's going on.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,296 Posts
More info. In some cases better, in some cases worse. It seems that it would still be open to 3rd party and parts replacements, but it's designed to lock out the curious who want to learn what's going on.
Here is yet another article on this same subject, sure helps to know what we are talking about.

Automakers to gearheads: Stop repairing cars

Key word here is modifying, in particular the ECU code, and with a 1998 copyright law that already exists.

But we already have plenty of laws like if your vehicle is modified in any way to affect the emissions, can be fined by the EPA for $25,000.00, simplest of this law is bypassing the catalytic converter. So called tuning laws are more nebulous, are to an extent if you can show to the EPA, emissions were either not affected or improved.

Other laws are in regards to liability, make suspension, brake, handling changes, the OE is freed from liability, its your liability now. And even goes to the extent if you are a victim of an accident like being stopped and being rear ended by some idiot, you won't be covered by the opposing insurance company because you modified your vehicle.

This is compounded by the fact that insurance companies tie up the very best law firms, you can only find second best, and coming in second sure doesn't help.

Other such things like installing a $50,000.00 entertainment system or a real mink interior are not covered unless you report these changes to your insurance company, in the cases of thief. What really bugs me for lack of consumer protection, if you vehicle is struck when legally parked, comprehensive does not cover this, but collision done.

Why these guys are protecting themselves, we are the ones that should be doing the complaining. This happened to us twice in the last ten years, one for 600 the other for 2700 bucks while parked in a so-called private parking lot which the vast majority are. Cops were worthless, won't fill out an accident report, on private property, the store is not liable, already have a disclaimer, no witnesses, no video, sorry, your collision will have to cover this. In other words, it was our fault and collisions rates did go up.

From reading the above article, looks the OE's are going against companies that sell tune kits. OE's already have a come back, can void your warranty.

If I was to put a bottom line to all this stuff, the key problem is that the vast majority of our lawmakers are attorneys, and they have a very strong brotherhood looking out for each other. This started in the early 70's with aviation, and in the late 80's with automotive. We the people don't have much say in these instances.

Worse work done on my Cruze was by my dealers, cables not routed correctly, bolts missing, not properly torqued, Just got tired of fighting with these basterds. So corrected myself, now kicking myself for not screaming about replacing those rusted out pad brackets on my Cruze, This warranty is over, 120 bucks to replace this crap.

What does less government mean? Consumer protection, was the very first thing to bite the dust. Like listening to BS? Contact your congressman.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
574 Posts
Here is yet another article on this same subject, sure helps to know what we are talking about.

Automakers to gearheads: Stop repairing cars

Key word here is modifying, in particular the ECU code, and with a 1998 copyright law that already exists.

But we already have plenty of laws like if your vehicle is modified in any way to affect the emissions, can be fined by the EPA for $25,000.00, simplest of this law is bypassing the catalytic converter. So called tuning laws are more nebulous, are to an extent if you can show to the EPA, emissions were either not affected or improved.

Other laws are in regards to liability, make suspension, brake, handling changes, the OE is freed from liability, its your liability now. And even goes to the extent if you are a victim of an accident like being stopped and being rear ended by some idiot, you won't be covered by the opposing insurance company because you modified your vehicle.

This is compounded by the fact that insurance companies tie up the very best law firms, you can only find second best, and coming in second sure doesn't help.

Other such things like installing a $50,000.00 entertainment system or a real mink interior are not covered unless you report these changes to your insurance company, in the cases of thief. What really bugs me for lack of consumer protection, if you vehicle is struck when legally parked, comprehensive does not cover this, but collision done.

Why these guys are protecting themselves, we are the ones that should be doing the complaining. This happened to us twice in the last ten years, one for 600 the other for 2700 bucks while parked in a so-called private parking lot which the vast majority are. Cops were worthless, won't fill out an accident report, on private property, the store is not liable, already have a disclaimer, no witnesses, no video, sorry, your collision will have to cover this. In other words, it was our fault and collisions rates did go up.

From reading the above article, looks the OE's are going against companies that sell tune kits. OE's already have a come back, can void your warranty.

If I was to put a bottom line to all this stuff, the key problem is that the vast majority of our lawmakers are attorneys, and they have a very strong brotherhood looking out for each other. This started in the early 70's with aviation, and in the late 80's with automotive. We the people don't have much say in these instances.

Worse work done on my Cruze was by my dealers, cables not routed correctly, bolts missing, not properly torqued, Just got tired of fighting with these basterds. So corrected myself, now kicking myself for not screaming about replacing those rusted out pad brackets on my Cruze, This warranty is over, 120 bucks to replace this crap.

What does less government mean? Consumer protection, was the very first thing to bite the dust. Like listening to BS? Contact your congressman.
Very well put ^^^^ I have been looking into a better DVR camera system like the 650/750 blackvue camera front & rear. Would this work in every case no but does help in some.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,318 Posts
Wasn't it also the auto companies who helped to get rid of all the public transit systems in major cities?

Sounds about right.


Sent with iLove 6.0
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,975 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
I seem to recall an effort a couple of decades ago by the auto industry to try to lock the hood to prevent owners from working on their cars. It would have required a special tool available only from the manufacturer to open the hood. Of course that one didn't make it. Hopefully this one won't either.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,296 Posts
Wasn't it also the auto companies who helped to get rid of all the public transit systems in major cities? Sent with iLove 6.0
Sounds about right.

Namely Exxon and GM were the key culprits that really escalated after the interstates were constructed. Objective was simple, sell more gas and cars.

But we also had very strict anti-trust laws back then, they were hit with a $5,000.00 fine, bet this really hurt them. But were never made to put these railroads back.

This happened to me very close to home with the North Shore Line, was cheap and a very short ride to either downtown Chicago or Milwaukee, trains ran every hour so wasn't a long wait. The very next day, sold the cars, and tore up the rails.

But the people it really hurt was our troops stationed at the Great Lakes Navy training center. No other means of transportation and these trains stopped right that the main gate. And that place was packed during the VN war. All they had was a two block long sin strip in North Chicago. Not a very good way to relax.

Talk about a huge traffic jam on the Edens Expressway, more like the Edens slow boat to China.

Did trace this route out on Google maps, satellite view, right of way seems to be mostly intact, should be made to put it back.

Other railroad right of ways are being destroyed around with short sightedness. State is picking up some for bike trails, others sold to nearby land owners. Once that rightaway is history, will never come back, tracks are cheap compared to this.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,080 Posts
I seem to recall an effort a couple of decades ago by the auto industry to try to lock the hood to prevent owners from working on their cars. It would have required a special tool available only from the manufacturer to open the hood. Of course that one didn't make it. Hopefully this one won't either.
Did they also have a way to top up the oil that you would be unable to check anyway?
 
1 - 20 of 45 Posts
Top