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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)


Hi everyone!

Mike here from NonStopTuning | NST USA. As some of you may know, and have on other cars of yours, NST offers a variety of products for popular makes and models, mainly our lightweight line of aluminum pulleys.

I'm curious to see if any of you here would be interested in a lightweight crank pulley and/or accessory pulleys for the 1.4 and/or 1.8 Cruze?

NST would have the ability to develop these items IF there is sufficient demand in the community, so if you are interested please speak up.

(Mods, please don't be too quick to pull the delete/lock trigger on this thread. NST would be happy to pay vendor fees IF the community shows support and demand for our brand and products. Thank you.)


!QUICK UPDATE!

In response to the feedback we've received from you guys, I decided to do a little homework. Based on the very limited info I've received from Chevy parts, and a little bit of searching online, it looks to me like:

1.4T 2011 seems to have a six rib crank pulley
1.4T 2012-2015 seems to have a five rib crank pulley

1.8 2011 seems to have a five rib crank pulley
1.8 2012-2015 seems to have a six rib crank pulley

What I would love to have from a few of you guys is some real world feedback. Please pop your hood and take a look at your belts to see if the info I've received is correct. You can either count the number of ribs on your belt or your crank pulley and/or alternator pulley to confirm for me. Pics would be an awesome bonus.

Final note: My data is based on units with a/c systems. I assume none of you in the USA own cars without a/c, correct?
Final note II: If any of you are in the Houston area and would like to be considered for prototype testing, please email [email protected]
Please note: NO discussion of any kind, regarding prototype testing will be handled via the forums. You MUST email us if interested in testing.

Thank you all!
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)


For those who are not aware of the concept of lightweight pulleys and why/how they are beneficial, here is a link to an article on our website with a good amount of information.

The following article also includes links to various DYNO testing sessions with multiple platforms and applications.


Please take a few minutes and look over the charts and links if interested:
Do Lightweight Aluminum Pulleys FREE Horsepower? | NonStopTuning


Just a few of the images from the article above... Many more where these came from...











UPDATE - JULY 1 2015 - UPDATE

Thank you guys for the warm welcome and the early response, ladies and gents!

While nothing has been finalized yet, I do want to address a few questions/comments and provide a little more info.

From what I can gather at looking at photos and specs online it looks like the most realistic options for both the 1.4T and the 1.8 would be a lightweight crankshaft pulley and a lightweight water pump pulley. Your alternator pulleys are both capped and that makes them very difficult to swap out... I don't want to waste a whole lot of time going back and forth on this, so just take my word for it for now. All NST pulleys are apx 70% lighter than OEM and in every case where we have tested we have found three main principles at work:

1. Better horsepower and torque delivery, as seen on our many online blog posts.
2. Better overall throttle response as noted by our many customers. You can check our online poll.
3. Better overall MPG, city + hwy combined, usually 1 to 2 mpg IF your driving habits are kept the same as before.

Looking at your cars I think if we end up with a product offering for you guys the results will be very similar to the 1.6 Veloster and Veloster Turbo. Pricing would likely be very similar as well. If we decide to move forward we will start with OEM parts, engineer from there, and ideally if possible, we'd like to do some testing with a local car in Houston, TX.

A couple links for you to check out, to further demonstrate my points from above...

http://nonstoptuningusa.com/2015/06/26/do-lightweight-aluminum-pulleys-free-horsepower/

http://nonstoptuningusa.com/2015/02/16/nonstoptuning-hyundai-veloster-turbo-lightweight-crank-pulley-dyno-testing/

http://nonstoptuningusa.com/2015/01/30/nonstoptuning-hyundai-veloster-pulley-dyno-testing/




:th_dblthumb2:
 

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Discussion Starter #3









ON THE TOPIC OF VIBRATIONS, HARMONICS, AND SAFETY


Because I know someone will be happy to bring it up if I do not, here goes...



Q. Will NST Pulleys lead to premature engine failure?


I cover this topic at least several times a month but I don't mind, I understand that your cars are a very large investment for all of you and I prefer that you be intelligent and informed about all your modifications. So here we go again... Please take a few minutes to read everything I have posted here, as I worked hard on trying to give you a good explanation on the topic...


In the past many engines were externally balanced. There was an external balancer attached to the outside of the engine, on the crank snout, used to balance the engine externally. The crank pulley in such engines would then be attached to this balancer. Removal of this balancer is a bad idea. These balancers were most often used on large V shaped engines of the domestic muscle car era.


Take a look at any modern (1980s and beyond) Honda, Toyota, Nissan, or other japanese inline 4 and you will find no such balancer. These engines are all internally balanced, and this process has improved even further since the late 1990s. So the topic of a BALANCER does not apply here.


What you will find on many modern engines is a harmonic damper. This is a small rubber band, litterally less than 2mm, less than 1/8th of an inch, thick that is built into the crank pulley. OEM crank pulleys are often called DAMPERS. Try placing an order for a crank pulley at your dealer and your invoice will read damper. This rubber is used to absorb something called NVH, noise/vibration/harshness. Suffice it to say, this rubber is actually not very good at performing its intended purpose after as little as a few thousand miles. What happens to rubber after a couple years of humidity, weather, snow, rain, etc? It often becomes brittle, hard, and crunchy. Can something with these properties actually absorb vibrations very well?


Many many NST customers who have reported smoother running engines with NST pulleys. Especially at idle. How is this possible if the rubber is such a vital and super important piece??? Perhaps the rubber is not as important as it is cracked up to be???




Furthermore....




On the topic of the rubber damper, engine vibrations, or possible threats resulting from elimination of this rubber piece...


On a relatively understressed near stock motor with bolt ons or low amounts of boost like what most of the people on this forum probably run, a solid pulley will not have any life threatening consequences.


The engineering reasons are that most modern engines have a short, strong crank with, a relatively high natural frequency. The dangerous second harmonic that can cause damage occurs at an rpm that this sort of engine will never see, in the area above 10,000 rpm. Even the stock damper is not tuned for attinuation at this sort of rpm so the argument is somewhat of a moot point.


Now weak engines that are pushing the limit with LOTS of revs, wimpy cranks, super long strokes, lots of boost and dwelling in the upper rpm ranges for long periods of time can benefit from a damper designed to deal with this sort of operation but our engine is not like this, and probably very few people with this motor on this forum push the envelope that hard. How many 500HP, 12,000RPM motors do we have on these forums?


As far as I can tell, our engine has a strong and stiff bottom end that is well built for our intended use. It has an internaly balanced crankshaft which is less like to break due to torsional vibration.


There are a lot of Honda, Toyota, and Nissan guys who use underdrive crank pulleys in road racing series like NASA or SCCA. Road racing is much more punishing on an engine than other motorsports. The engine is subjected to run times lasting roughly 30 minutes with the engine always in the upper ranges of its rpm limit. One race weekend is the equivlent of hundreds of 1/4 mile passes. These guys would not use NST pulleys if they were not reliable.


NST sponsored the first ever wheel to wheel Scion tC NASA Road Race car. The same car was very competitive in the Grand Am series and had factory backing from Toyota, Scion, and TRD. This car used pulleys from NST with great results since day one.


NST has sponsored several drift cars participating in the professional US drift series, Fromula Drift. Several of our cars have also competed in the Xtreme Drift Circuit and NOPI Drift series. To make things better, NST products are also used in autocross, time attack, and drag cars. These cars have been using NST pulleys with no issues of any kind for the past few seasons.


We could go on and on...


Is a solid crank pulley harmless to all engines? No it is not. As I said... small, super high reving engines, when modified way past the simple bolt on stages may have problems. These engines reach critcal harmonics, past the 10,000 rpm range, an rpm only reached by certain RACE engines.


A mildly modded inline six will most likely be fine but one subjected to high rpm for long periods of time (90% of its life) with lots of boost will probably suffer. In this case, the stock damper is probably not adequate either.


Some of the older american V8 engines are externaly balanced and it is critical not to use a solid hub pulley not designed for these applications, or damage to the engine could result. You will not find solid NST pulleys on our website for such engines.


Our engines and most around here do not fall into the above catagories. Rest assured that your engines will not blow up and die or have a reduced life in street and even racing use with these parts.


I would bet that every "expert" that tells you otherwise has little personal, practical, real world experience with the subject; as it applies in your case.


Again, I understand that your cars are a very large investment and that you depend on them as your daily means of transportation, so I do not take your questions personally. But please remember... No NST product is designed to cause you any harm or grief. Not all pulleys are created equal, and no other pulley is an NST pulley.


(this will be my one and only post regarding this issue in this thread, as I am not interested in the back-and-forth style, I-know-better-than-you, shouting matches some forum members seem to enjoy)

:th_salute:
 

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(Mods, please don't be too quick to pull the delete/lock trigger on this thread. NST would be happy to pay vendor fees IF the community shows support and demand for our brand and products. Thank you.)
Reasonable request.
 

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I don't see the pulley being much of Benefit with our engine due to the torque management and all the electronics taking over a lot of the Acc functions. But you never know until someone makes one.


but **** they will look really nice for all the show guys tho so that's a plus.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I don't see the pulley being much of Benefit with our engine due to the torque management and all the electronics taking over a lot of the Acc functions. But you never know until someone makes one.


but **** they will look really nice for all the show guys tho so that's a plus.

We'll have to find out IF/WHEN we do some testing. Of course this depends on the amount of demand/support we receive from the community.

What is for certain is that we've seen 100% positive results with the cars we've tested with in the past:
Do Lightweight Aluminum Pulleys FREE Horsepower? | NonStopTuning

Feel free to check the data if interested.
 

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This SHOULD be gains without torque management as this is what you'd call parasitic loss such as drive train losses. Regardless, between this an a lightweight flywheel, you'd notice your engine spooling up far more freely and just plain quicker. Does it show up in a dyno? To an extent, but the real gains are less weight working against the engine. Such as lighter wheels.
 

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What would be the price for a set of these? Im sure lighter weight will gain mpgs putting less drag on engine and quicker spooling. I would be in IF it could be prooved to raise MPGs.
 

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What would be the price for a set of these? Im sure lighter weight will gain mpgs putting less drag on engine and quicker spooling. I would be in IF it could be prooved to raise MPGs.
I don't think it will improve highway MPG as you're already pretty much in a steady state where the momentum of the parts has already been established. It might help in city MPG however.
 

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Mpg gains would be less than 5%. Tons of reading on that approach on ecomodder. If you were at the absolute best mpg possible and wanted to take it a step further, it would be worth exploring, however for me, mpg wouldn't even be worth tracking.

But reading there also raises the concerns about alternator effort, as well as cooling system issues if pulley sizes are changed.
Past pulley sets I've looked into for other cars were between $3-500 depending on company and completeness of the set. Some also included a/c delete, which is interesting, until you actually realize how often your ac comes on without hitting the button.
 

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Well atleast Id be losing weight. That seems to accomplish better MPGs. Just really curious of the price.
 

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I have the 1.8L LS, so I am assuming similar gains to the NA Hyundai Veloster (1.6L but same HP & TQ output) and I would definitely be interested. Your website quotes $248 for the Veloster Pulley kit- would you estimate a similar part price? And how much (or how long) does installation usually cost (take)?

Thanks!
 

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I'd be down for a set for the 1.4T. Hopefully it works out and there is enough interest in making them.
 

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I don't think it will improve highway MPG as you're already pretty much in a steady state where the momentum of the parts has already been established. It might help in city MPG however.
City is where I would need it. So many stop and right turn to WOT situations in the AM.
 

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Interested to see test results, also interested in being the guinea pig!
 
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