Chevrolet Cruze Forums banner
1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 2012 LT with ~96K miles on it. The wastegate is done and I am getting ready to replace it.

Question 1
I am wondering if the '16 and up turbos are a direct swap and offer any benefits over the '11-'15 turbos. It is a nightmare researching these Garrett turbos. I tried reaching out to Garrett, but they wouldn't share anything with me since they are for GM.

Question 2
What all should I be replacing while I am in there? I have read about the oil lines and plan on doing those, but is there anything else that needs to be done? Gaskets, vacuum lines, clamps, etc?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Gen 1 has the turbo integrated into the exhaust manifold as whole. The whole thing has to be replaced, as it's cast as one piece. To change turbochargers, you'd have to have a custom exhaust manifold done, or buy one already done (there are a few out there).

BNR Racing sells an upgraded GTX turbo that works well with their tune and the very little displacement available to spool a larger turbo, if you're so inclined.

Gen 2 is a Mitsubishi turbo. The exhaust manifold is integrated into the head, and the turbo is a separate piece and bolts directly to that.

I'd change the oil feed lines, exhaust gasket, coolant lines, and turbo control vacuum lines. Everything else should be alright.
I should have looked at the turbo a little harder. I didn't realize it was integrated with the manifold. I am all for having extra power, but I am not going to drop that kind of coin on this car. I looked into the upgraded Garrett and $900 is just not worth it and I would be at that, or more, getting the manifold and turbo for the gen 2 to fit. I am already knee deep in a turbo swap on my other car. I don't want to do it twice. I like simple. Thanks for the information I really appreciate you taking the time.

I believe there's some coolant hoses that feed the oil cooler that are only accessible with the turbo removed. I believe the coolant hoses attach to the oil filter metal assembly. This assembly also acts as a heat exchanger for the oil. Given nearly 100K mileage, I'd order nearly every rubber hose in that area that's behind the turbo, or even the turbo shield.

I hope you have a nice heated garage, this week is going to be brutal in Minnesota!
I do have a very nice heated garage where all this work is going to be done. I just wish I had a lift. Thanks for the tip on the coolant lines I will make certain they are on the list.

WhileImatititis is alive and well I am looking at the down pipe from zzp and am hoping I can swing the mid pipe at the same time. Then I might as well get the HP tuner credit and tune it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jblackburn

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Are you going with a used turbo? I'd be interested in where you find parts, and if you find a local dealer that's helpful in your repair efforts.

I'm in the twin cities, not far from you, and I have yet to find a dealership with a cool parts department that sells at a fair online price. Some parts like turbo's and the infamous valve cover are to my knowledge dealer only parts.

I'm guessing some of the hoses I mentioned maybe dealer only parts as well.
I am going with a rebuilt one. Worst case I will find a low mile used one to throw in there. I am planing on hitting Suburban Chevrolet first to see if they are willing to help me out. I have price shopped them against GM Parts Direct and they are not far off. Then I will hit Shakopee Chevrolet. Shakopee Chev has been pretty decent to me since they were threatened with losing the GM name several years ago, so I hope they can help me out. If not I will just put a complete list together and place one order through GM Parts Direct and not get killed on shipping.

Why are you doing this yourself if your still under warranty?!!!
Because it's not. My warranty ran out in June of this year and the wastegate didn't take a dump until October. Unfortunately, there is a time limit and not just mileage. I have just been putting it off due to cost and Christmas.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jblackburn

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks. I looked there. I just found I can get a brand new one from GM for $625 with a $75 core, so $550 for brand new is ok in my book.

It looks like I am going to be ordering everything off of this page and then some.

TURBOCHARGER & COMPONENTS for 2012 Chevrolet Cruze
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
It looks like I am going to have to make a stop at the nearest GM dealership. The link I provided above does not include the vacuum lines or anything about an oil cooler. I know it's going to be done right, but it's going to be around $1K to get it done that way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Fantastic! Thank you for the link.

Here is the internal debate I am having. Should I drop the money on a used one knowing the wastegate is notorious for getting out of tolerance and then just need to buy another one in X amount of time. Or should I buy a zero mile one for more money and get more time out of it? In my years I have learned to hate buying stuff twice.

I personally tend to lean towards the old adage, you get what you pay for.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Not a bad thought. That leaves me with more funds for performance parts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I also lean to paying a little bit more for quality than doing a job again. One source I would consider is Nordstroms Automotive out of South Dakota. They deal with disassembly of very low mileage vehicles. Some of them are directly from the assembly line with 3-5 miles.

I took a quick look and they have a 2016 exhaust manifold for $250. I was using my phone, so I wasn't able to see the mileage on the car, but the car looked to be in good shape. Not a flood vehicle.
They had two that would fit the bill, but they are still attached to the motor. I'm just waiting to hear back on whether they will separate. It would be nice if they did.

Beware of GMpartsdirect and their 4th-string customer support should you have any issues or if you want to return something.
So I've heard. Every one of my transactions has been just fine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
...Actually your build date is even earlier than that, its takes a month to make it to the dealer..
Sure. According to GMs computer it was done. Arguing would have done me no good. My guess is my car was a fleet vehicle that was turned out early.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter · #22 ·


Well, that is the complete list for what I would like to do. There is some cost savings in a few places, specifically with the turbo and the mid/downpipe, but I am looking at $1K to do it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Maybe hold off on the DP/MP until a ZZP sale. Black Friday 2016 sales is why you now see several big ticket ZZP products in my sig
Maybe. See, I have kids and they are money sucking leaches, only kidding I love them to death. However, if I wait on those parts then I might not be able to buy them until the year 2030 and the car will be gone by then.

Used Turbo is $625, seems like you could get something new for that price.

Does the Turbo Assembly cover some of the lines that you part number below? Maybe not.. It's a battle, order everything before you get into a job, and possibly have left over duplicate parts, or order them one at a time and potentially drag out the repair.

Shipping all those parts from GMPD for $30 is pretty good. Or were you thinking of getting the small stuff locally?

I have had hit and miss response with the Rock Auto catalog and the GM factory part numbers. If you get a hit, I've had not problem getting them, and at a significant discount vs. dealer.

I checked 55565382 and it's in stock for $27.79 without the 5% discount.

It looks like you've done the hard work of the spreadsheet, now it wouldn't take long to check each part in their part lookup portion of the catalog.

How much time would be saved doing the ZZP stuff now with the turbo out? Not sure if there's a lot of time savings or not, maybe there is..
Turbo is brand new. I am looking at $300-350 for a used one with right around 5K miles on it. I think I may go that direction to save myself around $300. The turbo part number is just the turbo and vacuum lines you talked about, nothing more. The parts list I have is everything you guys listed and the hardware to mount it all. I am sure I could trim some of the clamps and such, but it's cheap and I might as well replace them.

The parts were looked up on GM Parts Direct, but checked at the GM Parts Department at Suburban Chev and they lined up, so the designation is for GM Parts Department and not GM Parts Direct.

I like factory parts. I will double check Amazon to see if I can move the needle a little more. I may go with Rock Auto, but was not really thinking about them at all.

Not worried about the time savings for the ZZP stuff. It should only take 30 minutes or so for that stuff, it was more about power. I have never be able to leave well enough alone with my cars and I am not big on mods that don't add to the performance. So why not do that now?

I was looking at Standard Motor Products website the other day for Cruze spark plug boots and realized they have part numbered a new Turbo for the 1.4L Cruze.

eCatalog

Part number TBC583

http://www.standardbrand.com/media/2812858/ST11230-SEPT16_NPS_Sept_Oct2016-WEB.pdf

It shows pictures of the Turbo with the seals provided in their kit. The problem now is to find a seller, and see if there's price savings. Hopefully the pictures help.

There's also a distributor lookup for Garrett Turbo's

https://garrett.honeywell.com/distributor/distributor-locator/north-america/usa/

There's a Turbo shop down in Burnsville. May it be cheaper buying new directly from Garrett vs. GM. I found the GM part 55565353 on their website.

Given the speed these things operate at, maybe going OE is a better solution. Hopefully if someone finds these links in the next year or two there will be direct turbo replacements without dealing with salvage or direct GM prices.
Thanks for this information, you have been extremely helpful and I am indebted to you for that. I am not going to be getting an "aftermarket" turbo. That is one of those parts where I would rather spend the money on quality. When I reached out to Garrett for some help with model numbers and specs of the factory turbo they were absolutely zero help because it was a GM part. My guess is this will extend to the distributors as well. Working in the corporate retail world for nearly 20 years I have learned that sharing any sort of information on something that is produced for someone else is a big no-no. Now if I reached out to GM they may actually provide me with those specs since they "own" the turbo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter · #29 ·
I mentioned the info from Garrett because looking at their website it appears that all their turbo's have a tag with both a manufacturers part number and a Garrett Turbo part number & serial number. They seem pretty proud to show you exactly how to dissect the tag.

Some of the info on the tags shown on their website might be for manufacturers other than GM. Maybe the GM ones only have the standard GM marking. The pictures I've found haven't been clear enough to see this level of detail.

I like researching technical problems, and issues like this. I've looked at Nordstoms before for a previous car, but never ended up ordering the parts.

There's been several posts with people mentioning they changed the turbo, but many have not discussed economical options to source or repair a turbo.

I hope Surburban Chev takes care of you if you get parts there. I've done oil changes there, but I've never ordered parts. I've had problems getting small GM parts with some local dealers on the east side, but I was never considering something as expensive as a turbo.

With prices for a new turbo being so high, I guess it makes the labor cost seem reasonable in a shop. I wonder how many hours a turbo bills out at. I may have to look next time I'm looking at shop info. The problem is you may get the bare minimum done under the flat rate system. This probably wouldn't include the other work like hoses either. The more I understand how technicians make their money, the more inclined I am to try to do repairs myself. I research a lot more than I wrench.

It helps that libraries have free access to fairly good shop manuals.
If I remember correctly it was going to be around $500-600 for labor to install the turbo and that was just the turbo, nothing extra. Right after the service writer said that I knew I was going to be doing it myself.

If you're goal is more power, the most effective AND efficient method is to re-calibrate (tune) your ECU. What I mean is, "bolt-ons" may produce -5% to 5% more power, but a tune will produce 25%+ more power with stock everything. (The percentage examples aren't accurate, but not far off.)

So your HP-per-dollar spent will for example:

ZZP DP/MP = 6.9 hp / $535 = 0.013 hp per dollar invested

Tune by purchasing HP Tuners (more expensive than canned tuned) and a WBO2 = 60 hp / $650 = 0.093 hp per dollar invested

You can see going the expensive tune route it is still 7x more cost efficient.


However!!! I have the full ZZP exhaust system, and after bridging it a few times it sounds so SICK AWESOME with a tune, it's totally legit sounding IMO.
Yeah, my buddy has HP tuners and I will be buying a credit for my car and will start the tuning process. From the reading I have done this car is very conservative with the tune and will benefit a ton. I just wanted to get a few of the supporting mods done to take extra advantage of the tune.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter · #31 ·
I appreciate you looking out. Luckily I have been around the block several times with the Camaros I have owned and know a decent amount of what should and shouldn't be done. I am actually going with a MegaSquirt for that turbo motor, so I can get the most out of it. The tuneability of the factory 3800 series II computers are not the best and I really didn't want to have to deal with the MAF sensor not being able to read the amount of air coming in.

Now, if I could only get a response back on those used turbos I will be on my way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter · #35 ·
OP-

Assuming you're aware of the following part locator site..

It looks like there's a 2016 1.4L Trax in Fond Du Lac, WI with 1500 miles for around $325. Probably too far to drive, but I bet it would arrive quickly.

Search Results
Yeah, that is the one I use, but I have had a horrible time getting responses back from people. I will continue to work on it. For my job I needed to cross train and I have not been able to do anything car related due to workload. I hope things will calm down next week.

Good information here! Hey OP, when you do the work, take some pictures etc. I have a feeling there will be a lot of people needing to replace their turbos eventually.We can all benefit from your experience.
I am planning on taking pictures and will be glad to post them here.

So what did your car build date end up being on the door jam???????????????
Sorry about that, I completely forgot to check and my wife has been driving my car so I don't have access to it as much as I used to. I will set a reminder to look tonight and will report back as soon as I can.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Carbon02 - Thanks for looking out! I was able to get the Trax turbo shipped for $350. Not to bad if I do say so myself.

Cruzen Vegas handwritten on the door tag it says "contribution 07/12", however, on Chevrolet's official site this is what it says.



I will give them a call, but my guess is I will get nowhere.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter · #39 ·
I have been reading the HP Tuners forum and I am pretty sure I will be able to get a basic tune without many problem and get 30HP conservatively. I do greatly appreciate you looking out for me. There are plenty of people that would dive in head first and instantly regret changing anything. I am not that type of person. I will not start anything or buy anything until I am 100% confident in what I am doing.

I cannot promise there will be enough pictures to make a how to. More than likely we will start out strong and then once we drink enough we will no longer be taking pictures. I will do my best though. Now i need to figure out if I will be able to get good prices at Suburban Chev or if I will have to order from GMPD.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Back to the drawing board on the turbo. I just received a call from the salvage yard informing me they could not find the turbo. My guess is it will show up on the internet again at a higher price than before. It was a pretty good deal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter · #42 ·
Yeah, I did a search of the entire Midwest and there is nothing with that few of miles on it. The closest one was 6K and I think I would rather buy new at that point.

The car is drivable, but it gets garbage mileage and will eventually cost me money to drive it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter · #45 ·
So I decided to call Chevrolet about this and here is what they said. The build date was early 2011 and the actual wheels on the road date was 06/2011, so that makes the expiration date 6/2016 or 5 years after wheels on the road date. It makes sense, but still kind of makes me mad.

Now onto the good news. I found a place in IL that has a 400 mile turbo off a 2016 Buick Encore that is going to be delivered on Thursday.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Nope, my car is an extremely early 2012. The date that was hand written was the handover date to the dealership that sold it to the dealership I bought it from. Like I said the date was handwritten and said "contribution date", which I wasn't sure what that meant. I got clarification from GM that it was a handover date and not a build date. They told me the previous owner ordered/had it built extremely early. I actually questioned the dates, myself. The fact it was built very early in 2011 and had an on the road date of mid year, but was a 2012 really didn't add up. I'm aware that model years will come before the calendar year, but didn't realize it could be that early. I always thought October.
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top