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sigh...

I give up.
Ha, me too, don't consider myself a green person, but a practical side to this story. We just cannot continue to burn up our natural resources that took millions of years to develop.

In the turn of the last century, everybody was walking and going to school. Some used the railroads, can see that in any town, small homes on 30 foot lots near the railroad station. With the automobile in particular after WWII, to save on property taxes and get a little green grass. It was cheaper to commute, GM and Exxon played a strong role in that by buying up interurban railroads and closing them down. But we had anti-trust laws back then, for each railroad were hit with an excruciating 5,000 buck fine.

Today we are all dependent on the automobile, now they have us where they want us. Just bend over and smile.
 

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Man American news always amazes me.... just the FEEL of everything is different down there. Not really sure why that is.... Maybe it's because of everyone's love of shooting each other or making garbage stories out of nothing. Every time we flick over to the American channel the first 3 stories without fail are "person x gets shot in the face" "robber shoots infant for parents money" etc.... its terrifying! Actual comment from someone I know in upstate NY when they visited was "One person kills ONE other person and this makes news? Wow that's cute" I shiver at the thought.. Totally depends on the channel though. Fox is so painfully biased it hurts, and CNN makes it look like the entire world is coming to an end. Not sure how you all handle it.
 

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Man American news always amazes me.... just the FEEL of everything is different down there. Not really sure why that is.... Maybe it's because of everyone's love of shooting each other or making garbage stories out of nothing. Every time we flick over to the American channel the first 3 stories without fail are "person x gets shot in the face" "robber shoots infant for parents money" etc.... its terrifying! Actual comment from someone I know in upstate NY when they visited was "One person kills ONE other person and this makes news? Wow that's cute" I shiver at the thought.. Totally depends on the channel though. Fox is so painfully biased it hurts, and CNN makes it look like the entire world is coming to an end. Not sure how you all handle it.
If you look statistics there aren't really that many gun deaths here.

In 2011 32000 people were killed in gun related deaths BUT: most of them weren't murders but suicdes:

Accidental discharge 851
Suicide 19,766
Homicide 11,101
Undetermined Intent 222

In contrast alcohol related deaths numbered 75000 and about half of those were direct deaths and the other half alcohol related car crashes. Car crashes INJURED 2,000,000 YES MILLION people. The media doesn't like guns so they blow it out of proportion. As far as the rest of it goes. I hate what my country has become but as a fairly well travelled and cultured person I still can't think of a place that's better for personal freedom then right here, except for possibly Norway, or Sweden.


Also murder doesn't make it on the top 10 list:

http://www.businessinsider.com/top-causes-of-death-united-states-2011-11?op=1
 

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I drove the Volt and loved it, unfortunately, my commute is too far for it. It was designed for people that can get by with only averaging 38 miles a day and a large segment of the driving population fit into that category. Look at the lease deals in the Sunday papers, many are for 10,000 miles a year, that is about 38 miles a day, 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year, or 27 miles a day year round. Again, many people fall into that category. In these instances, you would theoretically never burn any gas. The beauty of its system is that if you decide to take a couple of long weekend trips, you can with the Volt's on board generator. Want to go an a long two week vacation, you can go. My neighbor has one, his commute is about 20 miles a day, the only time he used gas was on a long weekend trip from Florida to North Carolina. Need to drive from Michigan to Florida, you can be there tomorrow, you have a Leaf, the trip will take two weeks just to get there. With the incentives the volt ends up at about $32K, still a little steep but new technology cost money.
 

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If you look statistics there aren't really that many gun deaths here.

In 2011 32000 people were killed in gun related deaths BUT: most of them weren't murders but suicdes:

Accidental discharge 851
Suicide 19,766
Homicide 11,101
Undetermined Intent 222

In contrast alcohol related deaths numbered 75000 and about half of those were direct deaths and the other half alcohol related car crashes. Car crashes INJURED 2,000,000 YES MILLION people. The media doesn't like guns so they blow it out of proportion. As far as the rest of it goes. I hate what my country has become but as a fairly well travelled and cultured person I still can't think of a place that's better for personal freedom then right here, except for possibly Norway, or Sweden.


Also murder doesn't make it on the top 10 list:

http://www.businessinsider.com/top-causes-of-death-united-states-2011-11?op=1
My apologies I hadn't intended to make it sound as though it was a common occurrence, I'm studying in that field and am well aware of the stats, but the media blows all way out of proportion (which I why I wonder how you all stand it if this wasnt clear)


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
 
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Another grandkid on the way, makes three for this son, goodbye a standard four door passenger car with good fuel economy. Hate to read about this stupid mini-vans with those huge sliding doors, fixed windows, so can't even get your babies out of there with a side collision. With a fuel ignition, watch your kids burn alive.

If he needs a Yukon, will help him buy one. Not sure how the law reads on this issue with three kids regarding having one in the front seat. Read statistics that just as many kids were killed with air bags as stupid adults that were saved by not wearing their safety belts. Was in congress about adding a switch to kill the front passenger side air bags with a child, that didn't pass. Even a short friend had his neck broken with an airbag with just a fender bender type accident. But its the law!

Also regardless of price, all baby car seats use that same stupid plastic safety belt that is a b!tch to release, especially in a hurry. Perhaps just another reason why I feel we have idiots running this country.

When driving my 70 Buick, an idiot ran a red light and hit the drivers door, my only thought was getting out of there quick. Left hip was all black and blue, but could tell no bones were broken. I slid across the seat and got out the passenger side door. Try that with a console, sure they are cool, but that is the end of that and extremely difficult to find any vehicle today without one. Again, what are they thinking?

Don't even think about getting out in the rear seat of your Cruze with those child saftey locks on, can't even remove those front seat head restrains. These are things I don't even want to think about. Sure enough thought about locking us in, but nothing about getting out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
And batteries are still the worst idea on the planet for powering a car. Period. They're heavy, they're inefficient they offload the pollution to the Coal plants mostly so they don't help the environment and then you have the disposal of them. It's also stupid to trade one limited resource to another... Have you looked at how rare Lithium is? Until they figure out hydrogen fuel cells or cellulosic ethanol I'm not interested in giving up my gas powerplant.
Lithium is rarer than lead, but like lead the batteries are essentially 100% recyclable. So once you get the lithium into the supply you can keep recycling it. Today's batteries are not great, but I expect we'll see much better batteries in the future. There's still a LOT of slack in the battery efficiency equation. They even think Lithium efficiency could be as much as tripled or more if they can get the materials engineering down.
 

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Storing any amount of energy in a small space is dangerous like 1.8 million BTU's in a gas tank. Security is getting on an interstate with a full tank of gas. But if in an accident, would prefer just having a pint left. Compacting a battery has the same problem with huge amounts of energy, more like a bomb in our vehicles.

Ever get the idea we are trading our freedom for safety. Wonder when the time will come when we are all locked up in padded cells for our safety.

FCC has a no standing rule about any foreign corporation having anything to do with ownership of our communications industry. If the Reagan administration didn't change that, would be no Sony on all of our DVD's nor a Fox.

Can only wonder who is supporting Fox, could be the oil companies, can buy all the gas you want for four bucks or more per gallon. Or even government contractors, we need a very strong defense to get that oil. I don't know, but do know there is a reason, and more typically, money. Wonder exactly who is getting all that money with this endless drug war, certainly has to be someone in power. Damned, I am paranoid. And this global economy BS, we worked hard to get where we were, now giving in all away. If other countries want what standard of living we worked hard for, they can work their cans off too.

I will be happy to work for a buck a day, just lower my property taxes to five bucks per year.

And we should certainly take a second look at external combustion engines, do have the technology today to make one that is 90% efficient as opposed to this 15% efficiency that can only be obtained with an internal combustion engine. A lot has changed in the last 200 years.
 

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The Volt is the biggest flop... I mean seriously, if you want a car with good gas mileage look at a Prius or Camry Hybrid, I can't believe I'm actually going to get a Cruze, I know I will probably be kicking my self a few months in, but the Cruze LTZ is the best bang for the buck since I'm used to being pampered by my current Lexus and it would be hard to go for an entry level Cruze, especially without leather or the nice things like the leather steering wheel, like many said, a lot of people like, or, fit into the category the Volt caters to, but as far as news goes, Fox News is the only news that makes sense.
 

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The Volt is the biggest flop... I mean seriously, if you want a car with good gas mileage look at a Prius or Camry Hybrid, I can't believe I'm actually going to get a Cruze, I know I will probably be kicking my self a few months in, but the Cruze LTZ is the best bang for the buck since I'm used to being pampered by my current Lexus and it would be hard to go for an entry level Cruze, especially without leather or the nice things like the leather steering wheel, like many said, a lot of people like, or, fit into the category the Volt caters to, but as far as news goes, Fox News is the only news that makes sense.
Define "flop". If you're looking at total number of vehicles sold, it may be a flop, but that also means many revolutionary cars are flops. If you're looking at the cost of development vs. the revenue generated it's also still a flop. If you're looking at the cost of development vs. the 10 year return across the GM product line either GM will be bankrupt or these technologies will be so prevelant that no one will even think about them. From this perspective I suspect the Volt will be a resounding success. I picked 10 years because it took Toyota nearly 10 years to recoup the R&D cost of the Prius. According to FORTUNE: The Birth of the Toyota Prius - Feb. 21, 2006,
The total cost of (Prius) development was an estimated $1 billion -- after all the anguish, about average for a new car.
The Volt's R&D was about the same and most of it was spent before the US Government bailed out GM. And before you say Toyota didn't need a bailout, it did (Toyota Seeking Government Bailout in Japan | Fox News). Just not as much as GM needed.

On the other hand - if you look at the Volt as a R&D effort to get GM back into the electric car market without having to pay royalties to their biggest competitor (Toyota), the Volt is a major success. The Voltec drivetrain is the first real competitor to the Toyota Synergy Drive, and one that is actually in two different vehicles already. In addition to the Chevy Volt, the Fisker Karma uses the same technology. Also, the Volt is the number one selling plug-in hybrid on the market, outselling even the Prius Plug-In. (Chevy Volt Tops Prius Plug-in, Nissan Leaf in Green Car Sales Race | AutoGuide.com News). Most Prius sales are not plug-ins. By developing it's own hybrid drive system, GM not only avoided royalties to Toyota but they also developed a platform and technology that they can migrate into the rest of their vehicle line.

Despite the up-front purchase price of the Volt, some Chevy dealerships literally cannot keep Volts on the lot for people to test drive. My mom told me yesterday that she's tried four or five times to test drive a Volt but that every Volt on the lot already had a "sold" sign on it. This is at one of the largest Chevy dealerships in southern New Hampshire. Volt sales, because of the nature of the car and the up-front cost, are very market specific. People who purchase Volts tend to be home owners with garages so they can install the 240v charging station. This means dealerships in areas with condos and apartments tend not to sell the Volt while dealerships in areas with single family homes with attached garages are having a hard time to keep them on the lot.

By the way, the Cruze ECO MT and the Volt both get better real world fuel economy than the Camry Hybrid. From Fuel Economy using 2012 model year:

MPG
Car
151.5
Volt
55.7Prius Plug-In
49.3
Prius
40.9
Cruze ECO MT (gas only)
40.3
Camry Hybrid LE
38.2
Camry Hybrid LXE

Fuel Economy uses the same self-reporting system as Fuelly | Share and Compare Your MPG and these are pump vs. odometer numbers. I was actually surprised at the Volt's self-reported combined MPG was so high. This tells me that GM found the right electric range for the majority of drivers.
 

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If you like listening to right wing jibberish and bull crap yes. If you prefer left wing jibberish and bull crap watch NBC. If you want the actual story go out and do your own research and realize that none of them are worth a hoot.
Sadly - so, so true.
 

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Just read an article this last week that stated Toyota still looses money on every Prius they sell.
Hard to believe. Can you get us a link? I'd like to read it and make my own evaluation.
 
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