Chevrolet Cruze Forums banner
1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Administrator
Joined
·
25,596 Posts
If this shifter is determined to have been a contributing factor to Anton's death then Paramount would have a claim against FCA as well - their faulty product led to the early death of one of their lead characters in a very profitable franchise.

Watched that video and was appalled at that shifter's total lack of human factors design engineering. What back room moron came up with that design?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
I must admit, that's a cool design.

However, the question is "why?" Why would they change he operation of the gear shift selector? That's just asking for trouble.

It's a European design (ZF). Could be that they are used to manual transmissions and are pre-disposed to making sure the car is secured before getting out?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
481 Posts
It highlights a MAJOR flaw in MANY drivers here in this country, they DO NOT use the parking brake!!! They rely on the tiny park pawl inside the transmission to hold the vehicle even on steep inclines!!! I have seen this time and time again where drivers solely use the PARK gear to secure the car and do not use the PARKING BRAKE!!! Even if the vehicle is left in drive or reverse it should not roll at all with the parking brake set. We use our parking brakes properly and have taught our son to do so as well. If Anton had this training we likely would still have him here today. Driver responsibility is something sorely lacking these days, I loved the kid in Star Trek and am bummed that he died, but the goofy shifter design is not at fault here in my opinion.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
25,596 Posts
It highlights a MAJOR flaw in MANY drivers here in this country, they DO NOT use the parking brake!!! They rely on the tiny park pawl inside the transmission to hold the vehicle even on steep inclines!!! I have seen this time and time again where drivers solely use the PARK gear to secure the car and do not use the PARKING BRAKE!!! Even if the vehicle is left in drive or reverse it should not roll at all with the parking brake set. We use our parking brakes properly and have taught our son to do so as well. If Anton had this training we likely would still have him here today. Driver responsibility is something sorely lacking these days, I loved the kid in Star Trek and am bummed that he died, but the goofy shifter design is not at fault here in my opinion.
While ultimately it's the driver's responsibility, this design doesn't take into account what Americans are used to when it comes to shift controls. This design may be perfectly designed for Europe (I don't know) but it certainly doesn't conform to the shifter behavioral design in the US, making it a major failure in human factors engineering in the US market.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,296 Posts
What's parking brake?

Watched that video, very easy to leave in reverse or neutral if you are not paying attention to what you are doing.

The real problem is unlevel parking areas, sue the contractor, blame God, blame anyone, but don't blame your own ignorance nor stupidity.

Can't remove your key unless you are in park is fairly recent, last 20 years or so, led to more complex designs, more cost, and can't even get your vehicle out of part due to some code left out of the BCM.

But what happens if you leave your keys in the vehicle, like in your own pitched garage? Next step would be to lock you inside of your vehicle until you remove your key. But what if you are in an accident and your car is on fire? First thing to go is your electrical system, you will burned alive!

Ha, with that 80 Plymouth Horizon we had, would not dare not use the parking brake, if you left it in park on anything but a perfectly level surface, would never be able to get it out of park. Was for my kids, you always use your parking brake.

How many people do you know that jump into their vehicles, slam in the key, don't even look at the IP and shoot off like a rocket. Fuel tank could be empty, CEL is on, safety belt light is sure flashing, so added a bell.

Any suggestions here for designing a vehicle for idiots? How about a complex algorithm just to be able to start the vehicle that changes each time you start?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,335 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
He should of had the e-brake on but I don't know the he didn't. Maybe the e-brake worked like it did in my cruze before I had it adjusted and couldn't stop a turtle.

I don't care what country you are from but putting a spring in something that is going to get used billions of times over the life of the vehicle is just stupid. Springs wear out eventually no matter how strong. Is the spring the same quality as the spring in the suspension? I highly doubt it is the same quality.

I am not real crazy about the lights in the cruze and the way they toggle on/off. But I can see why that is there with automatic light function.

The point is why? Why put a spring in something that has no need for a spring. I would like to hear an explanation why a spring was put in the shift lever from the person who designed the lever and from the business manager who approved the design.

I feel the same way about keyless ignitions. Why? It is going to cost a fortune when you lose a key. I am perfectly happy with sticking a key in the ignition to start the car. It costs too much now replacing a key but remote start and lock feature is something I like so I can pay the 80 or 100 bucks when I lose a key to have one made and the car reprogrammed. At least I am getting something for it like remote lock and remote start. What do you get for a spring in the shifter? Nothing but something you will have to drive immediately to the dealer to spend the 1000 dollars (probably more) to get the spring replaced because your jeep won't stay in Park or get out of Park whatever they have as the default when it fails.

There is design elegance in simplicity.

I can see now why the rise of classic cars. If new cars keep going the way they are going I would rather spend 20,000 grand on a 70's malibu with a 350 crate motor or an older mustang with a 302/351 crate motor. If the cars have been done right they will last forever if you keep the rust off of them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
692 Posts
That's the problem with our country now, take personal responsibility. I drove a 300 rental a couple years ago, and had no problem knowing what gear I was in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
261 Posts
While ultimately it's the driver's responsibility, this design doesn't take into account what Americans are used to when it comes to shift controls. This design may be perfectly designed for Europe (I don't know) but it certainly doesn't conform to the shifter behavioral design in the US, making it a major failure in human factors engineering in the US market.
Not to be crass but I think that automotive engineers have made U.S. drivers lazy and inattentive at the wheel. We got ABS, lane departure warning, cruze control that will slow down automatically when approaching other traffic, brake assist that adds extra brake force when it detects a panic stop, and one that chafs me is the auto parallel park! We had to know how to do that when I got my license! It really is taking Darwin out of the equation and letting stupid poeple live. And there are a lot more safety things in new cars that I haven't even listed.

That at being said, I agree that is a stupid design. Never mind the spring (there are a lot of springs in your car jsusanka! Probably over a hundred!) the return to center is kind of ambiguous as to which gear it's actually in. I really liked Anton too, very sad to see this happen.

You know, they can do all these fancy things but they can't make a parking brake that automatically sets? Of course, that wouldn't have done Anton any good because he thought he had put it in park. Stupid design.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
254 Posts
You purchased a vehicle, which you should have test drive before purchasing. It CAME with an owners manual. You could have NOT bought the car. This is a plain OPERATOR ERROR! I'm not saying kill all stupid people, I merely suggest remove all warning tags and let things sort themselves out. It sounds harsh, but some new vehicles are coming without a shifter, it is simply push button on the dash. This recall is not due to a safety concern due to faulty parts, it's due to stupidity on the operator.

I apologize for sounding harsh, but we have become a society of people that take no responsibility for our actions and this is why FCA is doing a recall. Unlike the original post tries to let you believe, this was NOT due to a worn out part.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,296 Posts
Sure looked at a lot of new cars today, if you want a manual transmission, not only a special order, only available on the bottom of the barrel vehicles. And only seen vehicle that has provisions for an AT dipstick, tube is there, but have to buy the stick off the black market.

Why pick on springs, automotive is loaded with them, guess you never had an AT apart, loaded with springs and need special tools to compress them. In every brush to make contact to a slip ring or a commutator, every switch, limited slip, suspension, six speed manuals transmission to center the stick, linkage, safety belts, seats, doors, trunk, brakes, even the parking brake, bulb contacts, ABS modules, return the valves,.etc., etc., the list is quite long.

Ha, can't even buy most of them have to replace the entire component they are in. Trying to find a new vehicle with towing hooks on it, not to tow,but to tie down my kayak, all require front and rear tie downs, can't find these anymore.

What about purchasing a new vehicle where you don't have to go to bed with a dealer? If for nothing else to get the firmware. How about a vehicle where you can use a screwdriver to remove a panel, practically all of them are snap together, and a heck of a lot easy to snap them than to unsnap them.

Also considered a classic car, if you don't mind chasing all over the country to find a replacement part, so they got us where they want us, up the creek. Can still get a steel bumper in a high end pickup truck, but not very handy for a single driver going to work with one heck of a fuel bill. Then trying to find a spot to park the darn thing.

Ha, was told to look at a Chrysler 200, big rebates, but when I saw this, forget it.



And what's this jazz about a center console, ever have to work under the dash on these things? That stick is literally a PITA, and I mean literally.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,335 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
You purchased a vehicle, which you should have test drive before purchasing. It CAME with an owners manual. You could have NOT bought the car. This is a plain OPERATOR ERROR! I'm not saying kill all stupid people, I merely suggest remove all warning tags and let things sort themselves out. It sounds harsh, but some new vehicles are coming without a shifter, it is simply push button on the dash. This recall is not due to a safety concern due to faulty parts, it's due to stupidity on the operator.

I apologize for sounding harsh, but we have become a society of people that take no responsibility for our actions and this is why FCA is doing a recall. Unlike the original post tries to let you believe, this was NOT due to a worn out part.

I am not suggesting the accident was anybody's fault or a worn part. I can't say what happened in the accident I don't know the details and I don't know whose is to blame.

All I am saying is the shifter is a stupid design. What advantage does it bring the consumer to have a spring loaded shifter return to the same spot every time and have a light to show what gear you are suppose to be in.
I would never buy something like that and I would never buy a keyless ignition either. What do they do for me as a consumer other than cost more money to fix when they break.

I also think transmissions without a fill tube and dipstick are dumb. These are three things I will try to avoid at all costs when I buy my next car. Hopefully I will have some choices other than maybe one car or low end vehicles. I hear some high end german cars don't have oil dipsticks either. It is nothing but a reading from the computer on the screen now. That is stupid too I don't care if the car costs six figures it still is stupid maybe it is nice to have as an option along with oil temp but it is still stupid not to have a dip stick.
 

·
Premium Member
2014 Cruze Diesel, 2007 Cobalt, 1981 Camaro Z28, 2017 Volt
Joined
·
5,658 Posts
You literally push the button, push the shifter all the way forward until it stops and YOU WILL BE IN PARK. It is really that simple. It indicates what gear you are in on the cluster and on the shifter. Feel free to look at those if you're confused by the simple operation of the shifter.

Getting it into Reverse or Neutral takes a bit more concentration - but I figured it out in a whole five seconds, and I've driven plenty of these without incident.

There is absolutely nothing faulty about the shifter. It's not broken. What is faulty is the operator failing to use it correctly.

That's exactly what this amounts to - laziness and ignorance. If you're too lazy or too stupid to check if your vehicle is in park (especially if you have trouble with this simple shifter), then please refrain from driving.

Guess I'll go home and not bother to check if my car is in park and blame it on the manufacturer when it runs me over.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chris Tobin

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,296 Posts
Grandkid's and easily knock my Chevy P-30 motorhome chassis out of park, reason why I have the parking brake on and blocks under the wheels.

Awhile back on this board has a conversation on common sense, seems to have dissappeared, even have to be warned on to pull a pizza out of a 425*F oven in this sue happy society we are now living in. Look at those repeated warnings in both the owners and shop manuals today. Not only GM, but everyone, some owners manuals are over 700 pages long due to lack of comment sense.

Get so frustrated with parents letting their two year old kids run wild in a busy parking lot. Maybe they would like to you run them over so they can sue you for a million bucks.

One thing for sure, don't need a Ph.D.to make a kid, but sure need an ounce of common sense to raise them.
 

·
Premium Member
2014 Cruze Diesel, 2007 Cobalt, 1981 Camaro Z28, 2017 Volt
Joined
·
5,658 Posts
Grandkid's and easily knock my Chevy P-30 motorhome chassis out of park, reason why I have the parking brake on and blocks under the wheels.

Awhile back on this board has a conversation on common sense, seems to have dissappeared, even have to be warned on to pull a pizza out of a 425*F oven in this sue happy society we are now living in. Look at those repeated warnings in both the owners and shop manuals today. Not only GM, but everyone, some owners manuals are over 700 pages long due to lack of comment sense.

Get so frustrated with parents letting their two year old kids run wild in a busy parking lot. Maybe they would like to you run them over so they can sue you for a million bucks.

One thing for sure, don't need a Ph.D.to make a kid, but sure need an ounce of common sense to raise them.
It really is bad these days. People just can't be bothered to have to pay attention for whatever reason.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,296 Posts
Ha, my doctor is always pestering me on health risks, like my blood sugar is at 103, so wants me to quit drinking, smoking, and chasing wild women. But simply reply, my real risk is getting into an automobile, risks of getting injured is 1 in 81!

What I should do is quit driving.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top