SQ audio build \ lessons learned

15904 Views 95 Replies 4 Participants Last post by Nightmistx22, Aug 23, 2017

Nightmistx22

Discussion Starter · Apr 12, 2017 (Edited)

After reading through all the posts for the SQ how to and v2, I am looking at doing a similar build in my 2012 cruze.

First I would like to thank XtremeRevolution for putting those threads together. I feel like I have learned more about audio reproduction in the past week than I have in the past 20 years.

The point of this thread is two fold. First to discuss my build plan and get tips and suggestions while being on a fairly tight budget. Second to get and document any lessons learned from those that have installed a similar build in their cars.

My Build plan:

Tweeters: Vifa ( now peerless )

Woofers: Silver Flute

Sub: JBL P1022 (because I already own it)

Amps:
JBL GT5-A604 60Wx4 @4ohm (own)
Power Acoustik BAMF2000/1d 600Wx1 @4ohm (own)

miniDSP

Deadening:
CLD,CCF,MLV from sounddeadeningshowdown

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1 - 20 of 96 Posts

Nightmistx22

Discussion Starter · #2 · Apr 12, 2017 (Edited)

For anyone who has installed a SQ system please answer the list of questions below.

Speakers (woofer/tweeter):
Are you running a 2.1 (front speakers only w/sub) or 4.1 (front and rear speakers w/sub)
What did you go with?
Did you change them? If you did, what did you change them to and why.
How long have you been using these speakers in your SQ system?
If you could make changes what would they be?

Amps:
What did you go with?
what are the power ratings?
If you could make changes what would they be?

Sub:
What kind?
Sealed or ported or other style box?
If you could make changes what would they be?

Deadening:
which brand? SDS, Dynamat..etc.
How much did you use?
Do you think you should have used more or less than you did?

Install:
How did you route wires?
Where did you install your amps and miniDSP?
Is there anything you would have done differently?
Were there any other parts you found you needed when installing this audio system?

I realize this is a bit lengthy however, I believe this is a good start to allow others to learn from those that have already walked down this path.

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Nightmistx22

Discussion Starter · #3 · Apr 13, 2017

With the Silver flutes unavailable till next month I have decided to try and see if I understand the lessons XR and the SQ v1 and v2 pages have taught me by looking at other speakers and tweeters that are available. One tweeter that caught my eye was the Dayton Audio ND20FB-4. From the design it looks like it would be easy to fit with a little hot glue. Not sure how accurate the FR graph is but if true could be good for off-axis setups.

MB2014LT2

· #4 · Apr 14, 2017

I run a front only set up with mids in the doors and heavy deadening...tweets on the sails.....with entire trunk deadening....and ensolite foam over the entire area.....I run Pioneer STAGE 4 speakers and LOVE it.,,,!

XtremeRevolution

· #5 · Apr 14, 2017

3

Nightmistx22 said:
For anyone who has installed a SQ system please answer the list of questions below.

Speakers (woofer/tweeter):
Are you running a 2.1 (front speakers only w/sub) or 4.1 (front and rear speakers w/sub)
What did you go with?
Did you change them? If you did, what did you change them to and why.
How long have you been using these speakers in your SQ system?
If you could make changes what would they be?

Amps:
What did you go with?
what are the power ratings?
If you could make changes what would they be?

Sub:
What kind?
Sealed or ported or other style box?
If you could make changes what would they be?

Deadening:
which brand? SDS, Dynamat..etc.
How much did you use?
Do you think you should have used more or less than you did?

Install:
How did you route wires?
Where did you install your amps and miniDSP?
Is there anything you would have done differently?
Were there any other parts you found you needed when installing this audio system?

I realize this is a bit lengthy however, I believe this is a good start to allow others to learn from those that have already walked down this path.

Rear speakers destroy the front sound stage. You have sound firing toward the floor right behind you; woefully unnatural and useless. You never miss them once they're disconnected.

I've had the Silver Flutes in the front doors since I wrote those articles. They haven't let me down and continually impress people. I wouldn't change them out.

Boston Acoustics GT475 for the front stage (way overpowered, but got it cheap), and Boston Acoutics GT2300 for the subs (because dual 18s in an IB).

Subs are two 18" Peavey "Black Widow" Low rider subs in an infinite baffle install. Search for my thread on that in a thread titled "cone area is king." It's not a beginner's install though.

I used SoundDeadenerShowdown in everything, of course.

Only thing I would have done differently with the wires is run higher quality RCAs. I have a new set that need to go in, just haven't had the time. Don't cheap out on cables. Everything else, I'm happy with.

The amps are in the trunk behind the subs (see pictures) and the miniDSP is somewhere in the dash hidden away.

You're not too far, you should just drive down here to hear it for yourself. Let me know if there are questions I missed that you wanted answered.

Nightmistx22 said:
With the Silver flutes unavailable till next month I have decided to try and see if I understand the lessons XR and the SQ v1 and v2 pages have taught me by looking at other speakers and tweeters that are available. One tweeter that caught my eye was the Dayton Audio ND20FB-4. From the design it looks like it would be easy to fit with a little hot glue. Not sure how accurate the FR graph is but if true could be good for off-axis setups.

Easy fit is one thing, but the idea behind getting the most out of a 2-way front sound stage is to get a tweeter that can cross as low as possible. The Vifa does the best job I know of in that price point, all things considered, but the ND20FA and ND20FB tweeters do not do well. Those need to be crossed at closer to 3,500hz. They would not be a good match for the Silver Flutes. About all they're good for here is ease of install. Go with the Seas Prestige tweeters I listed in the mid range kit instead.

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Nightmistx22

Discussion Starter · #6 · Apr 14, 2017

XtremeRevolution said:
Rear speakers destroy the front sound stage. You have sound firing toward the floor right behind you; woefully unnatural and useless. You never miss them once they're disconnected.

I am planning on just running the front, as it is just me in the car 90% of the time. I had asked that just to see if there was anyone that ran with the rear speakers as well.

XtremeRevolution said:
I've had the Silver Flutes in the front doors since I wrote those articles. They haven't let me down and continually impress people. I wouldn't change them out.

Briefly looking around I couldn't find anything that would match the Silver Flutes, unfortunately they wont be back in stock till mid or late may.... good things come to those who wait I guess.

XtremeRevolution said:
Only thing I would have done differently with the wires is run higher quality RCAs. I have a new set that need to go in, just haven't had the time. Don't cheap out on cables. Everything else, I'm happy with.

Two things I will not compromise on are the cabling (power and audio) and the deadening. Most of my "savings" in this build will be from using components I have on hand. Later this year I should have some expendable cash to upgrade amps and possibly the sub if i'm not happy with them.

XtremeRevolution said:
The amps are in the trunk behind the subs (see pictures) and the miniDSP is somewhere in the dash hidden away.

Ah finally some pics of your dual 18" IB setup

haven't finished reading the cone area thread. My plan right now is to mount the JBL 4ch on the rear deck and the mono on the passenger side like you had in some of the earlier pictures. Would you happen to have some pic of the miniDSP mounting? I am planning on getting the diy version and mount it near the 4ch amp as to minimize the number of rcas I run through my car and for easier access to tune the DSP should I feel an itch to do so.

XtremeRevolution said:
You're not too far, you should just drive down here to hear it for yourself. Let me know if there are questions I missed that you wanted answered.

Would love to but I don't know if I will have any time to get out there. I think this is a good start for questions answered. I hope others that did this type of build jump on and provide their insight as well.

XtremeRevolution said:
Easy fit is one thing, but the idea behind getting the most out of a 2-way front sound stage is to get a tweeter that can cross as low as possible. The Vifa does the best job I know of in that price point, all things considered, but the ND20FA and ND20FB tweeters do not do well. Those need to be crossed at closer to 3,500hz. They would not be a good match for the Silver Flutes. About all they're good for here is ease of install. Go with the Seas Prestige tweeters I listed in the mid range kit instead.

I will probably go with the vifa (now peerless) as i can't justify the seas at this time. That is unless their performance is truly worth the extra $60 for a pair. But on paper they seem to have a similar stats and off-axis response.

See less See more

Nightmistx22

Discussion Starter · #7 · Apr 14, 2017

MB2014LT2 said:
I run a front only set up with mids in the doors and heavy deadening...tweets on the sails.....with entire trunk deadening....and ensolite foam over the entire area.....I run Pioneer STAGE 4 speakers and LOVE it.,,,!

MB,

Thank you for your reply, sounds like you really went to town on the deadening.

Are you running those Stage 4s Active or with the included passive crossover?

Nightmistx22

Discussion Starter · #8 · Apr 15, 2017

Just ordered a pair of Vifa BC25SC06-04 tweeters. They are "on sale" now for $10.30 each.

MB2014LT2

· #9 · Apr 16, 2017

Nightmistx22 said:
MB,

Thank you for your reply, sounds like you really went to town on the deadening.

Are you running those Stage 4s Active or with the included passive crossover?

Night, I am currently running my set up active through a Pioneer 800PRS head unit... front mid/highs and my stage 4 subs.... I have lots of control from the driver seat...and no experience with any kind of external DSP processor's . MY plans for the near future are to swap out the 800 and install Stage 4 P99RS deck, and add the TS-S062PRS mid into the mix.....and swap out my amps for more power.....AND add more sound deadening !!!

XtremeRevolution

· #10 · Apr 16, 2017

MB2014LT2 said:
Night, I am currently running my set up active through a Pioneer 800PRS head unit... front mid/highs and my stage 4 subs.... I have lots of control from the driver seat...and no experience with any kind of external DSP processor's . MY plans for the near future are to swap out the 800 and install Stage 4 P99RS deck, and add the TS-S062PRS mid into the mix.....and swap out my amps for more power.....AND add more sound deadening !!!

You should really look into the miniDSP. Does what a high end deck does for a fraction of the cost. 36 bands of parametric eq, 3 crossover types at up to 48db/octave slopes, time alignment, custom programmable filters, shelf filters, and more I'm forgetting. The 2-way miniDSP is $100.

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk

Reactions: 1

XtremeRevolution

· #11 · Apr 16, 2017

Nightmistx22 said:
I am planning on just running the front, as it is just me in the car 90% of the time. I had asked that just to see if there was anyone that ran with the rear speakers as well.

Briefly looking around I couldn't find anything that would match the Silver Flutes, unfortunately they wont be back in stock till mid or late may.... good things come to those who wait I guess.

Two things I will not compromise on are the cabling (power and audio) and the deadening. Most of my "savings" in this build will be from using components I have on hand. Later this year I should have some expendable cash to upgrade amps and possibly the sub if i'm not happy with them.

Ah finally some pics of your dual 18" IB setup haven't finished reading the cone area thread. My plan right now is to mount the JBL 4ch on the rear deck and the mono on the passenger side like you had in some of the earlier pictures. Would you happen to have some pic of the miniDSP mounting? I am planning on getting the diy version and mount it near the 4ch amp as to minimize the number of rcas I run through my car and for easier access to tune the DSP should I feel an itch to do so.

Would love to but I don't know if I will have any time to get out there. I think this is a good start for questions answered. I hope others that did this type of build jump on and provide their insight as well.

I will probably go with the vifa (now peerless) as i can't justify the seas at this time. That is unless their performance is truly worth the extra $60 for a pair. But on paper they seem to have a similar stats and off-axis response.

The miniDSP is just hidden behind the panel you can pull off to the center console from the passenger side. No pictures.

The Seas is truly a better speaker and worth the cost. They have more excursion and a lower resonant frequency which helps them cross lower. I'd say a solid 300-400hz lower, which is a lot. I think I had them crossed at 1900hz in another car. In addition, the vifas have a bit of harshness around 3-4k that you have to EQ out (which I did), but they aren't as smooth as the Seas tweeters.

They're excellent for what they are and handily beat tweeters and that cost 10x what they do with car audio labels. The Seas are just one step above them.

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk

Reactions: 1

Nightmistx22

Discussion Starter · #12 · Apr 16, 2017

MB2014LT2 said:
Night, I am currently running my set up active through a Pioneer 800PRS head unit... front mid/highs and my stage 4 subs.... I have lots of control from the driver seat...and no experience with any kind of external DSP processor's . MY plans for the near future are to swap out the 800 and install Stage 4 P99RS deck, and add the TS-S062PRS mid into the mix.....and swap out my amps for more power.....AND add more sound deadening !!!

Wow, that P99RS unit is way out of my price range. I would rather try and learn something new, like using an external DSP such as the miniDSP, and save several hundred. Looks nice though.

Nightmistx22

Discussion Starter · #13 · Apr 16, 2017

XtremeRevolution said:
The miniDSP is just hidden behind the panel you can pull off to the center console from the passenger side. No pictures.

The Seas is truly a better speaker and worth the cost. They have more excursion and a lower resonant frequency which helps them cross lower. I'd say a solid 300-400hz lower, which is a lot. I think I had them crossed at 1900hz in another car. In addition, the vifas have a bit of harshness around 3-4k that you have to EQ out (which I did), but they aren't as smooth as the Seas tweeters.

They're excellent for what they are and handily beat tweeters and that cost 10x what they do with car audio labels. The Seas are just one step above them.

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk

Hmmm.... I'll have to keep that in mind when I do my wife's car. May swap the vifa and get me the seas.

As you may have seen I already orded a pair of the vifas. $26 shipped made it even harder to justify the seas.

Did you get the diy or the enclosed version of the miniDSP? I'm planning on getting the diy version and mount it near my 4ch amp on the rear deck.

XtremeRevolution

· #14 · Apr 16, 2017

I got the DIY version to save a few bucks but both will work just the same. Don't forget the minidc.

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk

Reactions: 2

Nightmistx22

Discussion Starter · #15 · Apr 17, 2017

XR,

Are you still offering those door baffles?

XtremeRevolution

· #16 · Apr 17, 2017

Nightmistx22 said:
XR,

Are you still offering those door baffles?

I haven't done much audio work in the last year, but I'm planning on getting a few sets made in the next month or so.

Nightmistx22

Discussion Starter · #17 · Apr 17, 2017

Put me down for a pair for the silver flutes I will be ordering when they come back in stock. If you find you don't have the time could you please send me the dimensions for the baffles and a list of the supporting hardware. Thanks.

Nightmistx22

Discussion Starter · #18 · Apr 17, 2017

After re-reading v1 and v2 there seems to be a little confusion.. the vifa/silver flute combo seems marketed as the high value "budget" option. where they Dayton and seas is marketed as more the mid level better sq option on the v2 thread. However, after reading through the v1 thread I got the impression that the silver flutes perform better than the daytons. I may have missed something because it was a lot of info to sort through.

XtremeRevolution

· #19 · Apr 17, 2017

Nightmistx22 said:
After re-reading v1 and v2 there seems to be a little confusion.. the vifa/silver flute combo seems marketed as the high value "budget" option. where they Dayton and seas is marketed as more the mid level better sq option on the v2 thread. However, after reading through the v1 thread I got the impression that the silver flutes perform better than the daytons. I may have missed something because it was a lot of info to sort through.

In the V1 thread, I tried the Dayton DA-series drivers. The Silver Flutes were indeed better than the DA-series drivers. In the V2 thread, I discussed the Dayton RS-series drivers. Two totally different drivers. the RS-series drivers are better than the Silver Flutes if you have a tweeter that can cross low enough, but they're also notably more expensive.

Reactions: 1

Nightmistx22

Discussion Starter · #20 · Apr 17, 2017

XtremeRevolution said:
In the V1 thread, I tried the Dayton DA-series drivers. The Silver Flutes were indeed better than the DA-series drivers. In the V2 thread, I discussed the Dayton RS-series drivers. Two totally different drivers. the RS-series drivers are better than the Silver Flutes if you have a tweeter that can cross low enough, but they're also notably more expensive.

Ah, didn't pick up on the different models. Thank you for clarifying.

I have a feeling I will be very satisfied with the Silver Flute Vifa combo... once I get it all installed. Looking like a late may/ early june project at this time.

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