[Nightmistx22]

After reading through all the posts for the SQ how to and v2, I am looking at doing a similar build in my 2012 cruze.

First I would like to thank XtremeRevolution for putting those threads together. I feel like I have learned more about audio reproduction in the past week than I have in the past 20 years.


The point of this thread is two fold. First to discuss my build plan and get tips and suggestions while being on a fairly tight budget. Second to get and document any lessons learned from those that have installed a similar build in their cars.

My Build plan:

Tweeters: Vifa ( now peerless )

Woofers: Silver Flute

Sub: JBL P1022 (because I already own it)

Amps:
JBL GT5-A604 60Wx4 @4ohm (own)
Power Acoustik BAMF2000/1d 600Wx1 @4ohm (own)

miniDSP


Deadening:
CLD,CCF,MLV from sounddeadeningshowdown

 

[Nightmistx22]

For anyone who has installed a SQ system please answer the list of questions below.


Speakers (woofer/tweeter):
Are you running a 2.1 (front speakers only w/sub) or 4.1 (front and rear speakers w/sub)
What did you go with?
Did you change them? If you did, what did you change them to and why.
How long have you been using these speakers in your SQ system?
If you could make changes what would they be?

Amps:
What did you go with?
what are the power ratings?
If you could make changes what would they be?


Sub:
What kind?
Sealed or ported or other style box?
If you could make changes what would they be?

Deadening:
which brand? SDS, Dynamat..etc.
How much did you use?
Do you think you should have used more or less than you did?

Install:
How did you route wires?
Where did you install your amps and miniDSP?
Is there anything you would have done differently?
Were there any other parts you found you needed when installing this audio system?



I realize this is a bit lengthy however, I believe this is a good start to allow others to learn from those that have already walked down this path.

 

[Nightmistx22]

With the Silver flutes unavailable till next month I have decided to try and see if I understand the lessons XR and the SQ v1 and v2 pages have taught me by looking at other speakers and tweeters that are available. One tweeter that caught my eye was the Dayton Audio ND20FB-4. From the design it looks like it would be easy to fit with a little hot glue. Not sure how accurate the FR graph is but if true could be good for off-axis setups.

 

[Nightmistx22]

Rear speakers destroy the front sound stage. You have sound firing toward the floor right behind you; woefully unnatural and useless. You never miss them once they're disconnected.

I am planning on just running the front, as it is just me in the car 90% of the time. I had asked that just to see if there was anyone that ran with the rear speakers as well.

I've had the Silver Flutes in the front doors since I wrote those articles. They haven't let me down and continually impress people. I wouldn't change them out.

Briefly looking around I couldn't find anything that would match the Silver Flutes, unfortunately they wont be back in stock till mid or late may.... good things come to those who wait I guess.

Only thing I would have done differently with the wires is run higher quality RCAs. I have a new set that need to go in, just haven't had the time. Don't cheap out on cables. Everything else, I'm happy with.

Two things I will not compromise on are the cabling (power and audio) and the deadening. Most of my "savings" in this build will be from using components I have on hand. Later this year I should have some expendable cash to upgrade amps and possibly the sub if i'm not happy with them.

The amps are in the trunk behind the subs (see pictures) and the miniDSP is somewhere in the dash hidden away.

Ah finally some pics of your dual 18" IB setup haven't finished reading the cone area thread. My plan right now is to mount the JBL 4ch on the rear deck and the mono on the passenger side like you had in some of the earlier pictures. Would you happen to have some pic of the miniDSP mounting? I am planning on getting the diy version and mount it near the 4ch amp as to minimize the number of rcas I run through my car and for easier access to tune the DSP should I feel an itch to do so.

You're not too far, you should just drive down here to hear it for yourself. Let me know if there are questions I missed that you wanted answered.

Would love to but I don't know if I will have any time to get out there. I think this is a good start for questions answered. I hope others that did this type of build jump on and provide their insight as well.

Easy fit is one thing, but the idea behind getting the most out of a 2-way front sound stage is to get a tweeter that can cross as low as possible. The Vifa does the best job I know of in that price point, all things considered, but the ND20FA and ND20FB tweeters do not do well. Those need to be crossed at closer to 3,500hz. They would not be a good match for the Silver Flutes. About all they're good for here is ease of install. Go with the Seas Prestige tweeters I listed in the mid range kit instead.

I will probably go with the vifa (now peerless) as i can't justify the seas at this time. That is unless their performance is truly worth the extra $60 for a pair. But on paper they seem to have a similar stats and off-axis response.

 

[Nightmistx22]

I run a front only set up with mids in the doors and heavy deadening...tweets on the sails.....with entire trunk deadening....and ensolite foam over the entire area.....I run Pioneer STAGE 4 speakers and LOVE it.,,,!

MB,

Thank you for your reply, sounds like you really went to town on the deadening.

Are you running those Stage 4s Active or with the included passive crossover?

 

[Nightmistx22]

Just ordered a pair of Vifa BC25SC06-04 tweeters. They are "on sale" now for $10.30 each.

 

[Nightmistx22]

Night, I am currently running my set up active through a Pioneer 800PRS head unit... front mid/highs and my stage 4 subs.... I have lots of control from the driver seat...and no experience with any kind of external DSP processor's . MY plans for the near future are to swap out the 800 and install Stage 4 P99RS deck, and add the TS-S062PRS mid into the mix.....and swap out my amps for more power.....AND add more sound deadening !!!

Wow, that P99RS unit is way out of my price range. I would rather try and learn something new, like using an external DSP such as the miniDSP, and save several hundred. Looks nice though.

 

[Nightmistx22]

The miniDSP is just hidden behind the panel you can pull off to the center console from the passenger side. No pictures.

The Seas is truly a better speaker and worth the cost. They have more excursion and a lower resonant frequency which helps them cross lower. I'd say a solid 300-400hz lower, which is a lot. I think I had them crossed at 1900hz in another car. In addition, the vifas have a bit of harshness around 3-4k that you have to EQ out (which I did), but they aren't as smooth as the Seas tweeters.

They're excellent for what they are and handily beat tweeters and that cost 10x what they do with car audio labels. The Seas are just one step above them.

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk

Hmmm.... I'll have to keep that in mind when I do my wife's car. May swap the vifa and get me the seas.

As you may have seen I already orded a pair of the vifas. $26 shipped made it even harder to justify the seas.


Did you get the diy or the enclosed version of the miniDSP? I'm planning on getting the diy version and mount it near my 4ch amp on the rear deck.

 

[Nightmistx22]

XR,

Are you still offering those door baffles?

 

[Nightmistx22]

Put me down for a pair for the silver flutes I will be ordering when they come back in stock. If you find you don't have the time could you please send me the dimensions for the baffles and a list of the supporting hardware. Thanks.

 

[Nightmistx22]

After re-reading v1 and v2 there seems to be a little confusion.. the vifa/silver flute combo seems marketed as the high value "budget" option. where they Dayton and seas is marketed as more the mid level better sq option on the v2 thread. However, after reading through the v1 thread I got the impression that the silver flutes perform better than the daytons. I may have missed something because it was a lot of info to sort through.

 

[Nightmistx22]

In the V1 thread, I tried the Dayton DA-series drivers. The Silver Flutes were indeed better than the DA-series drivers. In the V2 thread, I discussed the Dayton RS-series drivers. Two totally different drivers. the RS-series drivers are better than the Silver Flutes if you have a tweeter that can cross low enough, but they're also notably more expensive.

Ah, didn't pick up on the different models. Thank you for clarifying.

I have a feeling I will be very satisfied with the Silver Flute Vifa combo... once I get it all installed. Looking like a late may/ early june project at this time.

 

[Nightmistx22]

XR,

Planning out this build I will have a little extra money I feel would be best served putting my sub in a better box. It currently sits in a .7 cu/ft custom fiberglass box for the RX8 I used to own. If you could, please model out a box so I could get the best Sq out of my JBL P1022.

 

[Nightmistx22]

Just ordered the miniDSP 2x4 and downloaded the 2way advanced software for it. It's a pretty intuitive piece of software.

 

[Nightmistx22]

Sweet. Just got my Vifa (Peerless) tweeters in today. Looks like I might need to cut away some material from the front to get them in the stock tweeter location. Is that what everyone else did that installed these tweeters?

 

[Nightmistx22]

Anyone have an idea if and where the stock radio starts to clip? With the stock speakers in I usually keep it below 30. 22-25 is my norm. Loud enough to put life back into the sound but not loud enough to hurt my ears.

 

[Nightmistx22]

Just got my miniDSP in today. It's smaller than I expected. Just need to order my sound deadening and wait for those 6.5" Silver Flutes to come back in stock then I can get this build underway.

In other news I decided I want to give a shot at some DIY home speakers... I'm thinking the Orient Express.

 

[Nightmistx22]

I'm debating between the OS MTM or the OE... I'm leaning towards the OE because 1) I am really liking those darn silver flutes. 2) my onkyo HTIAB is only 8ohm stable.

Really want to build me a pair of those Statement Monitors but I feel I should get my feet wet with something like the OS MTM or OE first.

 

[Nightmistx22]

Yeah, the statement monitors are not a beginner's design, nor are they cheap to build. I regret that I have them stored under the desk in my home office. With a 3.5 and a 1.5 year old running around, I couldn't risk them sticking something through the tweeter and having to blow $250 on a new pair (they only sell them in pairs). Not kid friendly speakers, at least not until I get some covers on the front.

For home use, I REALLY like the TangBand W5-704D. It is one of the smoothest drivers I've ever heard. I designed a pair of TMs with it, using another Vifa tweeter with a large faceplate. They're incredibly smooth overall with very low listening fatigue.

Hmmm.. going to need to look up that TB driver.
I have a 5, 3 year and 7 month old to deal with. They already pushed in the domes on the tweeters of my onkyo 2way speakers.

I keep going back and forth on the OS and OE... I was thinking on possibly using the Vifa BC25SC in place of the AC25SG that is discontinued. But to do it properly I would need to invest in something like the umik-1 so I could work up a new crossover for that tweeter.

Think I'll just get an OS MTM kit for my first go.

 

[Nightmistx22]

Sure, I'll look them over. Not sure when I will be able to get around to building any of these DIY speakers...

What program do you use to model out a sub box? I remember seeing it another thread but I cant't seem to remember where.