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Discussion Starter #1
I'm starting a new thread for a discussion started in the SQ Car Audio Thread V2
I will be doing the install in my 2014 Z/28 for now, but will later use the same setup in my 2014 Cruze 2LT
I will be using XtremeRevolutions recommendation for the front stage
Mid Level: Dayton RS180/Seas Presitge
Dayton Audio RS180-4 7" Reference Woofer 4 Ohm 295-374
The Madisound Speaker Store
As well as the MiniDSP and using and after market HU (Pioneer AVH-4100NEX)
For amps I will be using ARC SE2300 for subs and ARC SE4200 for front stage.
I was planning to use a Morel Ultimo 12" sub that I already have in a sealed enclosure but am now not so sure.
Back in 90's I had a set of 2 8" Pioneer woofers installed in a 4th order bandpass box (1 each) vented into the cabin through the rear deck in my 89 T-bird.
Everyone that heard that system did not believe that 2 8" subs produced that kind of bass. It was a very clean and tight sound with no distortion. Those boxes were designed by a custom home speaker designer here in Toronto.
I would like to reproduce that sound in my Z/28, with different woofers of course.
The max hight of box I can fit under the rear deck is 14.5"
I'm looking for feedback on this and woofer recommendations please.

TIA

Andrew
 

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Well just so you know on normal Camaros that I do (non z28) you lose a bit of pressure (spl) from trunk to the cab. After thinking about it, a 4th order isnt a bad idea at all. I have built several but I always end up feeling like I could make it better. If there is someone on here that has very good success with them than that would be great. Just so you know there is a lot more to building a really awesome enclosure other than entering in T/S parameters and having modeling software that tells you its specs. TLs on the other hand I have built dozens with great success. Hundreds of sealed and bass reflex designs.

I am sure Andrei will jump in on here. Band pass enclosures aren't as common anymore compared to 90's car audio.

My recommendation is try not to think about what size subwoofer or what style enclosure you want. Try to think about how you want it to sound.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Structurally, there is no difference between a 2014 Camaro LS and a Z/28. I just have to do a lot more deadening because there is no sound proofing at all installed in the Z/28 :)
I would never think to just plug in numbers into software. I know that this is a tricky thing and that's why I'm looking for someone that can recommend the drivers and design/build the enclosures.
You are right, of course, the enclosure type should be chosen to match the sound you're looking for. In my old 2010 2SS Camaro, I had the system in with the Ultimo in a sealed enclosure and didn't like it at all. I spent a lot of time trying to tune it and never got it right. I am looking for very high SQ and like things tight and clean, not a big fan of muddy bass at all.
I'm not married to the band pass idea, just thought it may work based on my past experience...I'm open to any idea that will give me the sound I want. Budget is not an issue since I already have everything except the woofers and box.
 

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Structurally, there is no difference between a 2014 Camaro LS and a Z/28. I just have to do a lot more deadening because there is no sound proofing at all installed in the Z/28 :)
I would never think to just plug in numbers into software. I know that this is a tricky thing and that's why I'm looking for someone that can recommend the drivers and design/build the enclosures.
You are right, of course, the enclosure type should be chosen to match the sound you're looking for. In my old 2010 2SS Camaro, I had the system in with the Ultimo in a sealed enclosure and didn't like it at all. I spent a lot of time trying to tune it and never got it right. I am looking for very high SQ and like things tight and clean, not a big fan of muddy bass at all.
I'm not married to the band pass idea, just thought it may work based on my past experience...I'm open to any idea that will give me the sound I want. Budget is not an issue since I already have everything except the woofers and box.
I understand there is not a difference structurally between the two I was referring to deadening and seats. For very high sq you can do a full wave transmission line with maybe a single 10 and fit it in there. Personally I like TLs and free air for SQ bass. The benefit of a TL is you can start to get a decent portion of the wave form in a room that doesnt have the space for a full length wave. So if you do a full wave length (using the rear wave form) you will be one of the people to fit a true bass wave in their Camaro. TLs sound effortless you can almost touch the bass in the air. IMO the closest you can get to that is free air (in a car).

Before I used Xtreme's Dual 18. I used the TB 6X9 subs in my rear deck and I was very impressed. Not a ton of db but a clean transient response. They blended very well with the front stage.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I understand there is not a difference structurally between the two I was referring to deadening and seats. For very high sq you can do a full wave transmission line with maybe a single 10 and fit it in there. Personally I like TLs and free air for SQ bass. The benefit of a TL is you can start to get a decent portion of the wave form in a room that doesnt have the space for a full length wave. So if you do a full wave length (using the rear wave form) you will be one of the people to fit a true bass wave in their Camaro. TLs sound effortless you can almost touch the bass in the air. IMO the closest you can get to that is free air (in a car).

Before I used Xtreme's Dual 18. I used the TB 6X9 subs in my rear deck and I was very impressed. Not a ton of db but a clean transient response. They blended very well with the front stage.
Sorry for the dumb question, but what is TL? Not the acronym, but the concept. I really am shooting for high SQ but I like it loud too :)
 

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Ha, ok, I just JFGI'd it an now I see what it is.
That seems even more complicated than the 4th order bandpass LOL.
 

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What would be the benefit to you to use 8" subwoofers? Are you that tight on space in the trunk?
I would like to keep the weight and space consumption to a minimum yes, but really I'm just thinking that getting the bass into the cabin rather than the trunk would be better in this car and 8" subs will give me smaller boxes in the bandpass alignment.
I did have that Morel 12" Ultimo installed in my old 2010 Camaro SS in a sealed enclosure and I was very unhappy with the bass in that car, it went low but was not what I expected or wanted.
Again, I'm not married to anything so I'm open to what would produce the best sound.
 

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Ha, ok, I just JFGI'd it an now I see what it is.
That seems even more complicated than the 4th order bandpass LOL.
There are some benefits. I built a pair of thin floor standing home speakers with two 3" drivers each that I'm able to get response out of down to 40hz. There's a lot you can do with a transmission line but it isn't always practical for mobile audio.

I've become quite spoiled with the two 18" subs firing directly into the cabin.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
There are some benefits. I built a pair of thin floor standing home speakers with two 3" drivers each that I'm able to get response out of down to 40hz. There's a lot you can do with a transmission line but it isn't always practical for mobile audio.

I've become quite spoiled with the two 18" subs firing directly into the cabin.
Do the 18" fire into the back of the back seat or really straight into the cabin? I read your post on the dual infinite baffle 18"s and IB is certainly an option but I'm no more comfortable designing that than the bandpass...
hificruzer, you know Camaro interiors, will IB work here as well?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I found this IB install on Camaro5, looks easy enough; I'm assuming I would have to seal off the trunk from the cabin perfectly for this to work right?
Certainly less work, money and weight than enclosures :)
 

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Ha, ok, I just JFGI'd it an now I see what it is.
That seems even more complicated than the 4th order bandpass LOL.
Its is way more complicated because its not an exact science theres an artform and experience that plays in to it. You can also tune it by stuffing density. Then there are different types of lines like tapered straight etc. I have just been one of the lucky ones who have had really great success with them. A proper TL will always outperform a bandpass enclosure SQ wise anyday.

IB is the best option IMO for you ... and for me too lol at least in my car.
 

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Do the 18" fire into the back of the back seat or really straight into the cabin? I read your post on the dual infinite baffle 18"s and IB is certainly an option but I'm no more comfortable designing that than the bandpass...
hificruzer, you know Camaro interiors, will IB work here as well?
I considered firing my black widows directly in the cab. However once I adjusted the phase on them I got my desired results even though they would sound a little less colored I would however lose gain on my subsonic freq response. They are still braking in as they only have about 2-3 hours playing time. I am gonna try and build my dash pods this weekend for the illuminators, then minidsp and 4 channel, than my morel mw166-4 my buddy has a makerbot so we will be designing an enclosure that goes in the door to give me a really strong midbass and my mmats sq4160 for the scan speaks and one of my random amps for the morel midbass. Than years of tuning lol
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I dont know if xtreme changed his set up but the version I am running tech fires in to the trunk. IB is the best way to go but it does take quite a bit more tuning so I would recommend a minidsp to run it as with mine I just cant get what I want out of mine with amp settings.

2 15" in a camaro sweet

run these IMO
Dayton Audio IB385-8 15" Infinite Baffle Subwoofer
You guys are convincing me :)
Will these woofers work well with ARC SE2300 amp? They are 8ohm so the power requirement would be higher no? I really don't want to buy another amp if I can help it.
I already ordered the miniDSP 2X4 along with advanced plugin, for the front stage, but you're saying I need another one for the subs? The HU will have sub pre-outs as well as EQ, x-over and time alignment (which I was not planning to use since I have the miniDSP) so maybe I'll use the HU to set the eq and x-over for the subs...ah, I guess another 200 bucks for another 2X4 miniDSP will not kill me...
 

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Discussion Starter #17
You guys have any opinion on the AE subs? They seem to be popular in IB implementations and not too expensive

IB15HT 4ohm
Fs: 16 Hz
Qms: 6.8
Vas: 440 L
Cms: .45 mm/N
Mms: 220 g
Rms: 3.25 kg/S
Xmax: 18 mm(peak)
Xmech: 27 mm(peak)
Sd: 830 sqcm
Vd: 2.98L (p-p)
Qes: .78
Re: 2.7 ohm
Le: .33 mH
Z: 4 ohm
Bl: 8.75 T/m
Pe: 500W (cont.)
Qts: .7
1WSPL: 85.63 dB
2.83V: 90.35 dB
 

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You guys are convincing me :)
Will these woofers work well with ARC SE2300 amp? They are 8ohm so the power requirement would be higher no? I really don't want to buy another amp if I can help it.
I already ordered the miniDSP 2X4 along with advanced plugin, for the front stage, but you're saying I need another one for the subs? The HU will have sub pre-outs as well as EQ, x-over and time alignment (which I was not planning to use since I have the miniDSP) so maybe I'll use the HU to set the eq and x-over for the subs...ah, I guess another 200 bucks for another 2X4 miniDSP will not kill me...
No you dont need a mini dsp for the subs but you also dont need a dual 15s in a camaro. :)
 

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You guys have any opinion on the AE subs? They seem to be popular in IB implementations and not too expensive

IB15HT 4ohm
Fs: 16 Hz
Qms: 6.8
Vas: 440 L
Cms: .45 mm/N
Mms: 220 g
Rms: 3.25 kg/S
Xmax: 18 mm(peak)
Xmech: 27 mm(peak)
Sd: 830 sqcm
Vd: 2.98L (p-p)
Qes: .78
Re: 2.7 ohm
Le: .33 mH
Z: 4 ohm
Bl: 8.75 T/m
Pe: 500W (cont.)
Qts: .7
1WSPL: 85.63 dB
2.83V: 90.35 dB
certainly has good credentials...
 
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