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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been trying to think of ways to lower IAT's. I'm planning on a water kit probably after Christmas (have to get one for the SRT-4 first). But water kits are $400+ and require invasive installation. I was thinking of a way to get lower IAT's without the cost.

My idea is basically a spray bar that sits in front of the intercooler. A small (very fine) mist to cool the ambient air temps that are used to cool the compressed air flowing through the intercooler. I figure the system could be mounted easily without cutting or welding and can be controlled by a toggle (maybe boost controlled at some point?).

I know there are intercoolers that use water but again, they're expensive.

I figure I could home depot this bad boy for pretty cheap since it's really just based on the mister systems you put in your back yard. I'd like some input both good and bad. I have no idea if it will work or if it does, how well.
 

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I have serious doubts about gains from IC misting. I've seen some huge reported dyno gains from it using nitrous or CO2, and i've seen other cars that don't gain anything.

If you're going to go through the trouble of setting that up, it's not much more work to just meth inject it...and that will work.
 

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I have serious doubts about gains from IC misting. I've seen some huge reported dyno gains from it using nitrous or CO2, and i've seen other cars that don't gain anything.

If you're going to go through the trouble of setting that up, it's not much more work to just meth inject it...and that will work.
Or a front mount intercooler...

I would look into a more sustainable solution. Anything that requires spraying or misting will have to be constantly re-filled. What happens when you run out?

I'd also look into your actual pre-turbo intake temps. These will affect the efficiency of the turbo as well as the amount of heat it creates and how easily the factory intercooler will heat soak.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I have serious doubts about gains from IC misting. I've seen some huge reported dyno gains from it using nitrous or CO2, and i've seen other cars that don't gain anything.

If you're going to go through the trouble of setting that up, it's not much more work to just meth inject it...and that will work.
The point was to build a quick/cheap mod to try and help lower IATs. CO2 and N20 add not only cost, but a new level of complexity.

I WILL be using water (not meth) injection. Looking at Snow Performance products ATM. However, at $400+ for a kit, I'm more interested in tinkering.

However, after researching I found this article Browser Warning that covers building exactly what I am talking about. It's more complicated than just spraying and it looks like the results are less than desirable. FYI: this has some great info on how intercoolers work.
 

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grab a used water sprayer "kit" from any sti that has upgraded to a front mount intercooler. they can be had for under $200.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Or a front mount intercooler...
Now that you mention it, I realize that I was thinking about a front mounted intercooler so yeah, this idea wouldn't work that great.

Hm, ok so is there a way to front mount this thing? I'd rather do that if possible.
 

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Now that you mention it, I realize that I was thinking about a front mounted intercooler so yeah, this idea wouldn't work that great.

Hm, ok so is there a way to front mount this thing? I'd rather do that if possible.
You mean, swap its place with the A/C condenser? I doubt it. If you want to lower IATs, start with pre-turbo intake temps. I don't think a single person has installed a *true* CAI yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
You mean, swap its place with the A/C condenser? I doubt it. If you want to lower IATs, start with pre-turbo intake temps. I don't think a single person has installed a *true* CAI yet.
I did the reso delete and I made a rubber gasket to seal off the gap left from removing the connector.

View attachment 8309

I also sealed up the drain hole which leads directly into the engine bay. Make a difference? Haven't done logging yet.

For my kia, I picked up some black ABS from home depot. It fit perfectly to the inlet on the stock air box so I ripped out all the stock ducting and ran my ABS down into the wheel well by the front fender very close to the ground. nothing but cool air in that spot. Maybe I can do something like that for the cruze. Pipe it down back behind the fog light inserts?

What are your thoughts on this or ideas for a "true" CAI? I'm willing to team up and put something together. If I can get IATs down to 15* below AAT I'd be happy. I think that air/air cooling is limited to 10* max though. But, I'm no thermodynamics engineer.
 

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I did the reso delete and I made a rubber gasket to seal off the gap left from removing the connector.

View attachment 8309

I also sealed up the drain hole which leads directly into the engine bay. Make a difference? Haven't done logging yet.

For my kia, I picked up some black ABS from home depot. It fit perfectly to the inlet on the stock air box so I ripped out all the stock ducting and ran my ABS down into the wheel well by the front fender very close to the ground. nothing but cool air in that spot. Maybe I can do something like that for the cruze. Pipe it down back behind the fog light inserts?

What are your thoughts on this or ideas for a "true" CAI? I'm willing to team up and put something together. If I can get IATs down to 15* below AAT I'd be happy. I think that air/air cooling is limited to 10* max though. But, I'm no thermodynamics engineer.
No matter what you do or where you put the filter, you will still be pulling a great deal of air from the engine bay. If you look into the engine bay, you'll see that there's a gap on the passenger side where the airbox is where you can actually touch the airbox. Heat from the engine bay will still get into that area, and the only way to get cold air from there is to separate or seal off that area from the rest of the engine bay. A cover of some sort would work well, but I don't know what material would be appropriate. You could hold it on with the same fasteners used for the airbox duct.

After that, make a few gaps that can pull air directly from underneath the car, and you'll be effectively sucking in 100% "cold" air.

Will it make a huge difference? Most likely not, but it will help, and nobody (that I know of) has done it yet.

First thing is to get some temperature sensors set up so you know what's going on.

Blue LED Temperature Display Dual External Sensors 320-500

Buy two of those. Put one a few inches below the filter, one on the outside of the car (preferably near the floor), and one right at the top of the engine bay above the airbox. Then, we'd know how much of a temperature difference this would actually make.

I can't prove this yet, but think the air that all of these intakes is pulling into the engine is much hotter than outside ambient temp and is definitely not helping our cause.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
While sealing off the engine bay from the intake will no doubt help, it seems like a lot of work that probably won't net much gain. I'm thinking along the lines of



Can't link to this one, but it's also gives a better view of what I mean Drag car turbo inlet image by Boosteddb8 on Photobucket

Can't get any cooler than the air outside the car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I'll grab some sensors this weekend (or sometime soon) and see what kind of readings I can get. Getting cold here now.
 
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While sealing off the engine bay from the intake will no doubt help, it seems like a lot of work that probably won't net much gain. I'm thinking along the lines of



Can't link to this one, but it's also gives a better view of what I mean Drag car turbo inlet image by Boosteddb8 on Photobucket

Can't get any cooler than the air outside the car.
Cool looking, no doubt, but highly impractical and obviously for race purposes only. You also have the option to keep the stock duct and run a new duct out to the outside of the car somewhere. Where exactly, I have no idea.

Like I said, we need to measure the actual temperature difference of the air at different points in the engine bay before making any judgement on where or not it will make a difference. a 50 degree drop in intake temperature can be significant in the efficiency of the turbo, thereby affecting the amount of work the turbo has to do as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Right, I wasn't suggesting a tube sticking outside of the car (although...) but basically the same concept. But, you're correct. Just because it's behind the fog light insert doesn't mean it's optimal (although I assume it would be a nice, straight shot to the air box - no bends).

so again, I'll see what I can do about the sensors and we can get some data to work with.
 
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Right, I wasn't suggesting a tube sticking outside of the car (although...) but basically the same concept. But, you're correct. Just because it's behind the fog light insert doesn't mean it's optimal (although I assume it would be a nice, straight shot to the air box - no bends).

so again, I'll see what I can do about the sensors and we can get some data to work with.
If I place an order any time soon from parts-express.com, I'll order the sensors as well. Thanks for taking initiative on this. We need more people like you who do some testing and get some solid numbers around here.

I will work on finding a solution for covering up that opening to the wheel well. I already have an idea for creating a hole in the bottom of the fender to allow cool air to be sucked in by way of a change in pressure.

The Madisound Speaker Store

Using something like that will make it easy to mount, and you could run the tube in any direction or location you want. Using the tube allows you to prevent water from coming up through the opening as easily, and reduces turbulence. Using the flares for turbulence reduction won't have a significant effect, but it would be an easy (and neat looking) solution to getting cold air into the now somewhat sealed off chamber from which your car is pulling air.
 

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A Predator hood would get that ram air youre looking for. I know its pricey but it is definately functionable and looks mean. I think all you would have to do is flip filter box upside down and use foam to seal to hood. Some slight cutting to bottom of filter box too. Im not to sure getting air from lower bumper or wheel well is an advantage since it seems roads heat up from summer sun causing hotter air radiating and im wondering also about brake rotor heat too.
 

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A Predator hood would get that ram air youre looking for. I know its pricey but it is definately functionable and looks mean. I think all you would have to do is flip filter box upside down and use foam to seal to hood. Some slight cutting to bottom of filter box too. Im not to sure getting air from lower bumper or wheel well is an advantage since it seems roads heat up from summer sun causing hotter air radiating and im wondering also about brake rotor heat too.
In order to get to the intake, brake rotor heat would have to go past the rim, the tire, and the fender well in order to hit the intake, while air is rushing around it. Radiating heat is not an issue.

How does the predator hood control water that would get sucked into the intake?

Edit: Just looked it up. $600 not including the prep and prime, which is another $300, so $900. Not a very good functional value when you compare it to a front mount intercooler.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
My biggest concern is still the intercooler being inside the engine bay. Since AAT's seem to be 10-15 degree's hotter than outside temps (as shown by my logs), I think trying to cool the engine bay is a good idea too. If intercooler were front mounted, all would be good IMO.

What's a good way to lower AAT's? $900 for a hood is not cost effective. If I were looking for lower ET's and to cut weight then I could justify it. But for $900 I could buy a crap ton of performance including the water injection and a new intercooler.

Went to radioshack to buy some temp sensors but they don't have anything! :mad:
 

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Yeah I agree about the price. Im in if the price comes down to $300-$400. I just think lower air is warmer than hood height air. My outdoor temp seems to be higher than actual and it mounted low. Definately would like to see your #s when u get the sensors.

Im sure the Predator hood has a water seperater built in to the air channel.
 

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Hey guys i would be more than willing to help on this topic as much as i can. I have installed intercooler sprayers for my ZZP Fmic. But i have no idea how to get a reading for this. ( I am a car noob when it comes to ambient air temps and elevation and all that good stuff.) Also i was reading your post titan2782 and i just purchased a cai duct in-tube-sl__1.jpg for which i am going to mount this under my passenger headlight and above my fog to route more cold air to my intake. I dont know if this will effect the 150 g/sec ratio that you were talking about in your other post or if its possible to see that though regular data logs. I also do not know how this will effect the turbo inlet air temp. I could pick up some sensors to see some readings as well so we can all troubleshoot these together. im guessing i am going to need a retune after this but i am planning on getting that anyway with the e85 tune. I will upload a video of my sprayers in action.

I would like to help in anyway possible. I just do not know what i need to do to get readings of any of the technical information, or how to analyze those graphs! haha ;)

PS My front bumper is already cut up to remove the screen insert for the fmic (bc i like that look) so cutting it more is not that big of an issue for me. For those of you who may think i am crazy for cutting a huge hole into my bumper ;)
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Ah sweet man! I want a fmic! I think that would solve most of my temp issues. What was the cost (I assume you had someone else install it?)

As far as logs, you can simply take a log without spraying and then take a log with spraying while doing the exact same run.

You want to look at Ambient Air Temp (SAE) vs IAT (GM) in the log reader. Do you already have a trifecta cable or a cable that works with EZFlash?

Example of graphs to look at: http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/34-1...-tested-0-022-spark-gap-resonator-delete.html
Log reader: http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/10-e...9238-cruze-data-log-reader-first-release.html

You won't need a tune for the spray bar or your intake mod. For the fmic you might but I'm not sure.
 
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