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I guess I was wrong, I thought I wanted sq but I want to be surrounded. Not feel like I'm at a stage. I know I definitely don't want sp sound.
I don't want to be able to pin point where a sound is coming from, although I do want to be able to pin point sounds (instruments).. If that makes any sense.
I'd also like to hear bass (depth) not feel bass (vibrations) if that makes any sense. I'm thinking 6x 9's over sub and tweets up high would be a better option for me. What you think?

I had a buddy back in the day that had some pioneer 6x9 speakers and a pioneer 12". When the sub was off the bass sounded exactly the same but you couldn't feel it or hear rattle. And sitting in the back sounded almost exactly as sitting in the front.
 

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Sit in my 95 Regal and I can guarantee you that you wouldn't ever know that there aren't any back speakers. The truth is that cars have so many reflective surfaces that the sound is always everywhere. If it's designed correctly, it will sound just as rich, full, and immersive.

Describing sound stage is very difficult until you hear it for yourself. In a well designed sound stage, you'll never pinpoint where the sound is coming from because of those reflections, so don't get the impression that you'd be able to identify two separate point sources; that's not what we're doing here.

If you want to pinpoint instruments, you'll need a flat frequency response and good phase and time alignment. I'll describe this briefly. Say you are sitting in front of a home theater speaker, something that looks like my recent design:



Now, say you're 3 feet away from the speaker and everything is at ear level. The woofer and tweeter are equidistant from your ears. Now, put the speaker on the ground and stand 3 feet away from it. What happened? The woofer is now farther away than the tweeter. The critical issue with this is in crossover overlap. In order to prevent a woofer from sounding distorted by playing too high of a frequency, you need to roll off frequencies above that point. In order to protect a tweeter from playing bass frequencies, you need roll off frequencies below a certain point. Here's the crossover sim for the above speakers. Click to enlarge:



The thick black line is the total frequency response. It's pretty **** flat in the usable range. the thick blue line is the woofer's frequency response after the crossover has been applied, and the thick red line is the tweeter's frequency response after the crossover has been applied. Those two overlap from 1000hz to 6000hz in order to "sum" and create the continuous black line. They are time and phase aligned for the sound to reach your ears at the exact same time when you're sitting directly in front of them, aka on-axis. Now, if you are off-axis and the woofer is farther from your ears than the tweeter is, what happens? The sounds from both tweeter and woofer in the "summed" range reach your ears at different times. The result is a sound that is not as clear, crisp, or detailed as one would like.

Now, take this concept and multiply it by 10 and that's the problem you have in car audio. You cannot possibly time and phase align both your front and your back speakers in order to have the same clarity you would in a home theater with two speakers at ear level. Furthermore, the reflections of the back speakers create destructive interferences that actually over-boost some frequencies and cancel out others, creating peaks and dips in the frequency response. The more speakers you have, the worse this problem becomes.

In the end, you're best off using two front speakers. The car's cabin will reflect sound from enough surfaces to create enough ambient noise in the back of the car to make up for what you think you've lost. The result will be the clarity you're looking for.

As for the bass you're looking for, I could spend a LOT of time going over this, but I've written up an explanation before so I'll just forward you to it instead. A lot goes into sub box design that most people have absolutely no clue about. To get that transparent bass you're talking about that just feels right, you need both a well designed sub and a well designed box.
Why sub boxes are important

Sit in my 95 Regal and you won't be able to tell that the sub is in the trunk. It will just be everywhere and it will be tonally precise, accurate, and musical. Now that's a word you have to hear to understand. Hearing a truly musical sub like the Image Dynamics IDQ15 I've chosen for this project will give you one **** of an "aha" moment followed by a "holy sh!t" moment, followed by speechlessness.
I don't know what most of what you say means but I get what you're saying. Thanks for posting links of the products you recommend, definitely be saving and might take you up on the box design when I jump into sound.

Maybe you can post a dumbed up explanation for those of us (ie. me) that don't don't understand all this stereo phonics talk. lol

"Buy this, this and this. Put it together like this. Because Boom!"
 

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Thanks X, I think I can get a hold of those things and building your own would be more gratifying.
 
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