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I'd like to see the real world tailpipe testing for all internal combustion engines - diesel and gasoline. Interesting that European diesels have all been implicated in not meeting emissions standards and being up to 30% lower on real world fuel efficiency than advertised.
 

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Interesting that European diesels have all been implicated in not meeting emissions standards
I tried to follow links to see the details of that study but failed to find it. I have a suspicion that someone is taking known weaknesses in the law and putting a spin on that.
 

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Original article from greencarreports... Which generally would like the end of ICE (internal combustion engine). Technology improves and goes down in cost. Expensive emissions today are less so in the future. The 20% energy density of diesel remains a key advantage, as well as longevity and heavy torque. Diesel will recover. New offerings from Nissan, GM, Chrysler, Jaguar, Land Rover, Mercedes, BMW will continue.

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Original article from greencarreports... Which generally would like the end of ICE (internal combustion engine). Technology improves and goes down in cost. Expensive emissions today are less so in the future. The 20% energy density of diesel remains a key advantage, as well as longevity and heavy torque. Diesel will recover. New offerings from Nissan, GM, Chrysler, Jaguar, Land Rover, Mercedes, BMW will continue.

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Diesels became popular in Europe back in the 70s when Europe put harsh (for non-Catalytic converter emissions) limits on CO and CO2. Europe didn't start regulating NOx emissions until the mid 90s. It's very easy to build a diesel engine that puts out very little COx but very difficult to control NOx. The US took a different route clamping down on COx and NOx at the same time, which is what led to the Catalytic Converter to convert hydrocarbon emissions into CO2 and H2O. CO2 emissions are actually relatively easy to control in a gasoline engine by running at higher temperatures and closer to a pure Atkinson cycle, so the extra CO2 generated by Catalytic Converters was considered acceptable. Gasoline engines will put out nearly zero NOx emissions when burning properly.

If you peruse this forum you'll see that there have been quite a few emissions related issues with the CTD. These issues are predominately NOx sensors. These sensors are critical to ensure the CTD uses the DEF system properly - too much DEF wastes money, too little and you emit too much NOx. I really hope GM has solved this issue as I think there are a lot of benefits of the diesel drive train.
 

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Keep in mind the pickup diesel market has been competitive and growing, despite the emissions issues. As with all new technology, some initial issues are inevitable. The trucks with DEF / SCR NOx reduction are proving reliable and with few issues. With now 2 CTDs, over 60 k combined, yes a few warranty emissions replacement DPF in first week on first car, later 1 NOx, 1 O2, and oddly the ECU, I'm willing to bet some interrelation between some of these, but no apparent issues on the other car with more miles ( by service history ). I've had prior gasoline powered vehicles with similar from new issues, even an ECU, that pickup ended as a lemon. One of the challenges with the diesel emissions is with frequent, but short duration drives, for that a hybrid or gas car would be less trouble. The emissions work best when allowed to get up to temperature and under load. They could add more driver information and make this less and issue, but sadly the market is such where few drivers what such data and would ignore it or be discouraged from a purchase. Most drivers don't even want to know anything about how the car works.

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I think there's a good shot that the new Cruze and Equinox diesels will do well. And I disagree with the article's statement that the 1st gen Cruze diesel "sold poorly". They only planned to sell 10,000 and sold nearly double that. With very little advertising. From what I heard, GM considered it a success. Why else would they be be bringing more diesels?
 

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Not to derail this thread but it is sad that VW got nailed like they did and yet there are vehicles out "rolling coal" and nothing is done about it? This is on brand new trucks. Around here I know of several individuals that purchased new diesel trucks and deleted the emissions right away.
 

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That's totally different than being a manufacturer and lying to a country to increase your profit while damaging other manufacturer's market share.
 

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Not to derail this thread but it is sad that VW got nailed like they did and yet there are vehicles out "rolling coal" and nothing is done about it? This is on brand new trucks. Around here I know of several individuals that purchased new diesel trucks and deleted the emissions right away.
As mentioned above, there's a pretty huge difference between some ******* owners intentionally and illegally messing with their own trucks' emission control systems while the majority of the owners of new diesel trucks leave them alone. While a company illegally programs a cheat so they don't have to install those emission control systems at all on any of the vehicles sold.

I agree that maybe they should be ticketed for messing with their trucks like they would for putting 0% tint all the way around.
 
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I tried to follow links to see the details of that study but failed to find it. I have a suspicion that someone is taking known weaknesses in the law and putting a spin on that.
Don't worry about. Everything is just dry labbed or made by people who really don't know what they are doing. It's pretty common nowadays with sites whose sole purpose is to get clicks and support their agenda.
 

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I think there's a good shot that the new Cruze and Equinox diesels will do well. And I disagree with the article's statement that the 1st gen Cruze diesel "sold poorly". They only planned to sell 10,000 and sold nearly double that. With very little advertising. From what I heard, GM considered it a success. Why else would they be be bringing more diesels?
Great point, not only was advisement nearly non existent, the car is barely noticeable from a gasser Cruze. The tiny "2.0 TD" badge the could be an "ECO" badge from more than 10 feet away is all there is. Add to that, they were competing with VW until the end of 2015, VW was lower priced, offered a manual transmission to boot. Despite that they still sold cars. Perhaps I'm biased now that I have 2 CTDs!!

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Great point, not only was advisement nearly non existent, the car is barely noticeable from a gasser Cruze. The tiny "2.0 TD" badge the could be an "ECO" badge from more than 10 feet away is all there is. Add to that, they were competing with VW until the end of 2015, VW was lower priced, offered a manual transmission to boot. Despite that they still sold cars. Perhaps I'm biased now that I have 2 CTDs!!

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It was only higher priced because Chevy only sold the diesel in one trim level, fully loaded. If they offered a base model with as you mentioned, a manual transmission I'm sure it would have sold a lot more even with non-existent advertisement, I would have bought one for sure.
 

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I am a diesel convert, and love diesels, but it will be a very tough fight for Chevrolet to gain traction with the small passenger diesels, especially if gas prices stay as low as they are, on top of all the issues VW brought with the scandal. The diesel option costs outweigh the benefit at this time, and while I prefer driving my diesel Cruze over a gas model, I wouldn't have bought it if it didn't cost me as much as an LS gas model. There is no way I would have paid the 28k MSRP. The diesel Colorado isn't selling as well as this article makes it seem, at least from my first hand knowledge in my area they are sitting on the lots, and remember it has a 5k premium over the gas models. The gas 2nd gen Cruze also gets MPG numbers in the range of the EPA rated first gen diesel numbers. I hope Chevrolet can pull it off, but hybrids and electrics are the future, and diesel will get left behind long before gassers do.
 

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but hybrids and electrics are the future, and diesel will get left behind long before gassers do.
While electric certainly has the public's attention, I think the contest is far from settled. I still think there's a good chance for biofuels to come along. Especially when you stop to consider 18-wheelers and commercial airline flight. Not to mention the DoD making a major push for "drop in replacement" fuels to power current weapons. Electric vehicles at this time are far too dependent on some kind of technical and cost breakthrough to make it practical for industrial movers. Their place in the future is not guaranteed.

Depending on the details, diesel might be the technology that comes out on top. So it really wouldn't be a bad idea for GM to run a small diesel program to learn from. So if the future does go that way, they can avoid starting from scratch.
 

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I am a diesel convert, and love diesels, but it will be a very tough fight for Chevrolet to gain traction with the small passenger diesels, especially if gas prices stay as low as they are, on top of all the issues VW brought with the scandal. The diesel option costs outweigh the benefit at this time, and while I prefer driving my diesel Cruze over a gas model, I wouldn't have bought it if it didn't cost me as much as an LS gas model. There is no way I would have paid the 28k MSRP. The diesel Colorado isn't selling as well as this article makes it seem, at least from my first hand knowledge in my area they are sitting on the lots, and remember it has a 5k premium over the gas models. The gas 2nd gen Cruze also gets MPG numbers in the range of the EPA rated first gen diesel numbers. I hope Chevrolet can pull it off, but hybrids and electrics are the future, and diesel will get left behind long before gassers do.
Diesel retains a 20% energy density advantage over gasoline, even more over ethanol and other fuels, it's stable and has long shelf life and has a distribution network established. Hybrid makes sense in urban stop and go type traffic, mostly highway and it is not worth the cost. Pure electric has range and charging time limitations, and it's not zero emissions when 70% of electrical power comes from coal. Few people are going to be able to afford separate cars, electric for city, gas diesel for long drives. This is where hybrids gained some traction, they are still even more expensive than diesel. CAFE standards are driving OEMs to go outside the box, but small cars are not very profitable, to increase MPG and have a larger vehicle, Diesel makes sense.. which is where some OEMs, GM included are going. With many emissions technology hurdles worked out with Duramax truck experience behind them.. They may pull it off.

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I think there's a good shot that the new Cruze and Equinox diesels will do well. And I disagree with the article's statement that the 1st gen Cruze diesel "sold poorly". They only planned to sell 10,000 and sold nearly double that. With very little advertising. From what I heard, GM considered it a success. Why else would they be be bringing more diesels?
I thought I read that GM was expecting the Cruze Diesel to be 10% of all of the Cruze sales...where did you read that GM was expecting to sell only 10K Cruze diesels?

The thing I don't understand is why VW is going to drop out of the diesel market all together now...why wouldn't VW just put the emission equipment on it's diesel cars like GM did and and keep selling diesels....seems like they owned the market, so why just let it go when it would be so easy just to put the emission equipment in the cars.
 

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I thought I read that GM was expecting the Cruze Diesel to be 10% of all of the Cruze sales...where did you read that GM was expecting to sell only 10K Cruze diesels?

The thing I don't understand is why VW is going to drop out of the diesel market all together now...why wouldn't VW just put the emission equipment on it's diesel cars like GM did and and keep selling diesels....seems like they owned the market, so why just let it go when it would be so easy just to put the emission equipment in the cars.
There is an answer: Politics. VW did something so bad, they needed to appease the political powers that be, who HATE Internal Combustion Engine. They had to make a move that would appease the forces lining up to go for the jugular. Been following this closely, and I think it boils down to the political forces in play. GM seems ready to pick up the market VW is leaving. Time will tell how this works out for them. I think they needed to stop the immediate bleeding, but when the dust settles they may well reengage with a complaint TDI at some future date.

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