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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I start up my CTD today and the DIC tells me there is water in the fuel and to contact service...I hit the button and the message goes out and then comes on again after a few miles of driving....car starts and drives normal. I'm thinking the fuel filter needs to have water drained out of it....what do you guys think
 

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ive never drained mine, but ive changed the filter

cant hurt to try draining it
 

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The hardest part of draining it is getting the under body cover off. Let us know if you see any water in the fuel when you drain it. Did you refuel somewhere out of the way? And of course if you drain it and still get the message it could like @boraz says mean a faulty sensor, or that the whole tank of fuel is contaminated.

Does anybody know the filter's capacity to hold water?

By the way, I never drain mine and have never had this message.
 

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Diesel fuel is hydroscopic (hygroscopic??)......anyways, it draws moisture out of the air.....depending on where you live and purchass fuel correlates to how much moisture you pick up.

The fuel filters used for diesel are designed to separate water as well as filter......that water ends up in a well area where a sensor lives.
Some folks will have to drain water several times between actual filter changes.....in the OP's case, the fuel purchass point may be the moisture source, or may just be the dampness of the air where the car is operated.

The reason water must be removed is if it reaches the point where the pump or injectors get water, it will cause those components to corrode and fail.


Anyways, drain the water.

Rob
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I started the car this morning and the water in fuel message came on again and then would go off when I hit the turn signal button....came back on about 4 times on my 25 mile ride to work....I noticed the message would come back on after stopping while going down hill, but the car starts and drives normal. The problem is getting under the car after work before it gets dark and it's snowing, raining and 16 degrees...will do the filter drain this weekend when I have plenty of time...anyway I was reading about water in diesel fuel and how to get rid of it and a product called.. 911 diesel... was recommended. I bought some and put 6 oz in my fuel tank with about 7 or so gallons left in the fuel tank....on my way home from work the water in fuel message didn't come back on while driving like it did 4 times in the mornings drive. I plan on running the rest of my tank of diesel to near empty before refilling with fresh diesel and draining the fuel filter this weekend....hopefully that will take care of this
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The hardest part of draining it is getting the under body cover off. Let us know if you see any water in the fuel when you drain it. Did you refuel somewhere out of the way? And of course if you drain it and still get the message it could like @boraz says mean a faulty sensor, or that the whole tank of fuel is contaminated.

Does anybody know the filter's capacity to hold water?

By the way, I never drain mine and have never had this message.
I most always fill up at the same station. I didn't know that water in the fuel filter can still freeze in cold weather even thought the diesel fuel is still liquid and block the fuel filter... being that it's been in the teens mostly the last few days I was getting a bit nervous.... the product 911 diesel is supposed to keep any water in the diesel from freezing and blend the water into the fuel to be burned off....seems to be working as I said about the water in fuel message didn't come back on while driving
 

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Good luck with this and keep us posted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I have had very positive results after using the product Diesel 911 for just over 50 miles now...I got no water in fuel messages on my drive today...I thought I would post some info I read about regarding water in diesel and how to get rid of it that I found on another diesel forum after a search. I think it's from the company that makes the product Diesel 911...

Diesel Fuel Supplement (DFS) has an antigen which prevents the fuel from gelling. It also has a detergent, cetane boost, lubricity, anti-icing, and corrosion package.

Warm fuel will carry more water than cold fuel. When it gets cold some water can fall out of the fuel, or the water separator can squeeze out water which can freeze on the filter face and cause the fuel to stop flowing through the filter even though the fuel is still liquid. This is call Fuel Filter Icing and is often mistaken for fuel gelling. Our Diesel Fuel Supplement contains a deicer that is intended to keep the water in the fuel from falling out. The deicer can also help to solubilize small amounts of water in the fuel system. If too much water is in the fuel tank it can overpower the deicer in the Diesel Fuel Supplement.

Cetane will cause the fuel to ignite a split second sooner than fuel with low cetane. This will cause the engine to start faster and help the fuel to burn more completely and aid in fuel economy, reduce emissions and noise.

The detergent in DFS will help to keep the injectors clean which is the key to better fuel economy. The EMA (Engine Manufacturers Association) recommends the use of a detergent. Their research shows that low sulfur fuels have a tendency to form carbon deposits on fuel injectors. The DFS will prevent these deposits from forming. These deposits interfere with the fuel injector spray pattern, cause the engine to smoke, emit more emissions and reduce fuel economy.

Lubricity will help the fuel pump to last longer. The vast majority of fuel pumps in diesel engines are lubricated by the fuel and in the USA one-third of the fuels do not meet the minimum lubricity requirements. The DFS has enough lubricity to raise these fuels up to the minimum standard recommended by the fuel pump manufacturers. The fuel pump manufacturers BOSCH, Delphi, Denso, Siemens and Stanadyne say that lubricity is the most valuable and crucial property of diesel fuel.

Our Diesel Kleen is a summer additive and it is intended to give you the very best injector cleaner, cetane, lubricity, fuel stability package and corrosion protection. It will not do much for water and it is not intended to. The injector cleaner is strong enough to clean up a dirty injectors to the spray pattern of a new injector. The Cetane Boost will help your engine start quicker, reduce emissions (even NOx) and improve engine performance. The lubricity package will bring the lubricity of the fuel up to the standard recommended by the fuel pump manufacturers. It meets the N14 Standard for corrosion and it will stabilize the fuel. The stability package helps the fuel to resist thermal breakdown which can cause the fuel to darken and form particulate materials which create gum residues in the fuel system.

Diesel Kleen is the only additive on the market that has effectively demonstrated the ability to reduce NOx (Nitrogen Oxides) which are the fine particles & ground level ozone often called Urban Smog. It will also reduce the other diesel emissions like black smoke, PM, CO, and HC. It also has the strongest detergent package on the market.

When it comes to water dispersal the following will apply.

A Demulsifier, an emulsifier and a water solubilizer are all water dispersants. All diesel fuel has water in it. The water that is in diesel fuel will not hurt or harm the motor, pumps or injectors. Low Sulfur diesel fuel usually has around 50 to 65ppm (parts per million) water in the fuel. When the water content of the fuel gets around 100ppm or higher, the more likely fuel filter icing will occur.

Demulsifiers will cause excess water to fall out of the fuel. This water will fall to the bottom of the fuel tank or fuel system and can cause corrosion, rust, reduced lubricity and in the winter months it can freeze in the fuel lines and prevent fuel flow. There are about a dozen demulsifiers or de-hazers on the market. None of them will work on all fuels. You have to test the fuel your are using against the various demulsifiers to see which one will work with that fuel. They are fuel specific and when an additive company says they use demulsifiers in their additives it is for advertisement purposes only. If you talk to any Chemist that knows anything about demulsifiers they will tell you the same thing.
An emulsifier will pull water up into the fuel as small droplets and often will cause the fuel to be cloudy. In the winter months when the temperature drops below freezing, these water droplets can freeze on the filter face of the water separator causing the flow of fuel to stop, even though the fuel is still liquid. It does not take much water to cause Fuel Filter Icing problems. Both Ford and Chevy have advised against the use of emulsifiers because of possible engine damage caused by water droplets in the fuel. These water droplets also reduce the lubricity of the fuel and hurt fuel pumps and can pit, scare and destroy injector tips, according to Ford and Chevy.

Diesel Kleen and Diesel Fuel Supplement do not contain demulsifiers, emulsifiers or alcohols.

Our Diesel 911 is a solubilizer. It will take free water and combine it with the fuel so when you look at the fuel it is clear. Diesel 911 will combine with the fuel first and it will also keep the water in the fuel from falling out. It then will act upon the free water in the system. If the fuel is dry and is not saturated with water, it will pick up more free water than when the fuel is wet. A fuel solubilizer will not suspend water in the fuel as water droplets and it is not an emulsifier.

There is a lot of misinformation about additives and water dispersants. When you use an additive like our Diesel Fuel Supplement or Diesel Kleen these are mixtures of additives in a package. These various chemicals have to be balanced so they will not separate when you mix them together. It doesn't matter if you use our additives or one of our competitors, a good water dispersant takes a lot of room in the additive package. If you add a strong detergent, strong cetane, excellent lubricity, corrosion, top of the line antigel, and stability to the additive package there is not much room left for a water dispersant. A good multiple benefit package will always have a weak water dispersant package. It is a matter of chemistry. The only way to get a strong water dispersant is to get an additive whose top attribute is to control water like our Diesel 911. It takes a lot of water dispersant to take care of free water so it will take up a lot of room in a container.

If you think you have a water or water related problem then you need to use our Diesel 911 to take care of the water. Diesel 911 is completely compatible with Diesel Kleen and Diesel Fuel Supplement and they can be used together in the fuel. If you live in areas where the temperatures can be severe in the winter months then you need to use our Diesel Fuel Supplement. Use the Diesel Kleen in the non-winter months. Also, just before winter sets in I would use the Diesel 911 to help take out the water/condensation in your fuel system. You might also use it once a month in the equipment during the winter just to be sure condensation doesn't build up in the system. One-third of all fuel flow problems in winter is caused by water. Diesel 911 is the perfect product to take care of this problem. It will solubilize the water back into the fuel so the water will act as a component of the fuel. The water will be in solution and not in droplet form in your fuel. All fuel contains water. When used as directed it will prevent fuel filter icing problems, it will not hurt or harm your pump or injectors and it is the only practical way to rid the system of water in a vehicle . Again, use the Diesel 911 when you think you have a water problem .

Diesel 911 does not contain any methyl or ethyl alcohols. It is a proprietary mixture containing Hydroxyl Compounds. These de-icers are used in many diesel fuel additives that are currently on the market.

It is also interesting to note that Power Service Products, Inc. is one of the few diesel fuel manufacturers that have their own chemical storage tanks, own lab and one of the most modern and automated production lines in the industry. We buy our chemicals by the truck load, tanker load and sometimes by a million gallons at a time. We control our costs in this way which keeps us cost competitive and we also do not experience shortages which would stop production in the critical winter months. Our chemist in our own lab come up with our formulations and test them for performance and quality. We mix our own chemicals at our tank farm and then send them to our warehouse for bottling, box the product and store it for shipping. Most of our competitors use what we call "cold blenders". That is they come up with a formulation and then send it off to a blending facility who purchase the chemicals and mix them to the required specifications, bottle and box and label the product and then ship it back to the owner who warehouse it until it is sold. This causes their prices to be usually higher than ours. Often since they have higher costs due to the cold blend process they put out an inferior product and say it is equal to or better than ours.
 

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You should always drain the fuel water separator at every oil change interval. It will be rare for most to see water coming out unless you go to get diesel at a place that doesn't move much of it or it is a lower quality.
 

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Did you make this all up yourself, " There is a lot of misinformation about additives". Seems you need to pick up a dictionary and lookup the words you are using, i.e. "Demulsifier, an emulsifier and a water solubilizer are all water dispersants" ?? See dictionary for definitions, there is a distinct difference any chemist would know.

If you are having significant problems with water in your tank to light the DIC, kept the tank full during winter months (minimizes condensation), find a high volume truck stop with quality diesel, stay away from B20 which is highly hygroscopic and using the demulsifier type additive (GM recommended and so does Stanadyne) along with draining the filter often will eliminate typical water in the fuel issues.

Note you want the fuel separator to do just that, separate the water from the fuel so that it can be drained, not dispersed in the fuel so that the water passes through the separator membrane and goes into the fuel system pump and injectors.

I have been using PS products for the 10 years I've been operating my Ford 6.0L PS and just recently a pint of 911 and a pint of their full supplement bailed me out of a gelling situation when I got a load of crap Murphy diesel. I would not use these products in the Cruze diesel as they are the dispersion type additive which GM does not recommend(read the label on the bottle), "* Disperses water in diesel fuel" !! The most water I found in the 6.0L PS filter when draining was about 1 teaspoon once or twice over a ten year period. Wasn't even enough to light the water in fuel DIC.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Did you make this all up yourself, " There is a lot of misinformation about additives". Seems you need to pick up a dictionary and lookup the words you are using, i.e. "Demulsifier, an emulsifier and a water solubilizer are all water dispersants" ?? See dictionary for definitions, there is a distinct difference any chemist would know.

If you are having significant problems with water in your tank to light the DIC, kept the tank full during winter months (minimizes condensation), find a high volume truck stop with quality diesel, stay away from B20 which is highly hygroscopic and using the demulsifier type additive (GM recommended and so does Stanadyne) along with draining the filter often will eliminate typical water in the fuel issues.

Note you want the fuel separator to do just that, separate the water from the fuel so that it can be drained, not dispersed in the fuel so that the water passes through the separator membrane and goes into the fuel system pump and injectors.

I have been using PS products for the 10 years I've been operating my Ford 6.0L PS and just recently a pint of 911 and a pint of their full supplement bailed me out of a gelling situation when I got a load of crap Murphy diesel. I would not use these products in the Cruze diesel as they are the dispersion type additive which GM does not recommend(read the label on the bottle), "* Disperses water in diesel fuel" !! The most water I found in the 6.0L PS filter when draining was about 1 teaspoon once or twice over a ten year period. Wasn't even enough to light the water in fuel DIC.
No I didn't make up what I posted...I said in my post that I read that info on another diesel forum when I was looking for some answers about water in diesel fuel problems.... just reposted the info I found in case there might be other owners that were having water in fuel issues like I was having.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
well guys I put the car on some ramps and drained the fuel filter today....I thought I read when others opened up the drain on the fuel filter that the fuel would drain without stopping but when I removed the 18mm plug from the bottom of the filter very little fuel came out.....had to turn on the key to pump fuel out into a jar...did it off and on until I filled up two glass jars....maybe a 1/2 gallon with about 1 cup or so of water in the bottom of the first jar...diesel fuel that came out was yellow looking...not sure what diesel looks like...anyways the job was so easy and took maybe 20 minutes doing it for the first time using car ramps....so easy and fast that I will be draining the fuel filter from now on with every oil change once I'm finished with my last free oil change from GM...anyways problem fixed with no more ..water in fuel...messages from the DIC
 

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Well done. Does the Chevrolet dealer drain the water from fuel filter for the first 4 free services? I watched them do my oil change but didn't ask if they drained the water from fuel filter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
The dealers don't drain the fuel filter with the free service. IMO the fuel filter drain should have been included with the GM service...with the car already on the lift it wouldn't take much more than 10 minutes or so to drain the fuel filter of any water that it might be holding.
 
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